First person vs. third person

Pisceswriter99 · May 16, 2010

Howdy,
I'm new to the forum. I'm working on my first book which is YA. It's a mystery book. I've written five chapters, which I've read aloud in a writers workshop.

The biggest problem that my fellow workshop writers have identified is the lack of characterization. Several of them have told me they're not connecting with the MC. I'm writing it in the third person.

I'm wondering if a way to correct this problem is to switch the first person? In the past day or so, I've spent some time researching YA online and I browsed through the Teens section at Barnes and Noble last night. It seems like alot of YA books are written in the first person. I need to spend more time too reading more YA books to get a better feel of what teens are reading.

How do you know when to write in the first or third person? Is it just better to write in the first person for a YA book because teens are more likely to identify with the character and voice if it's written in this way?

I started writing in the third person because it feels more natural to me. Also, when I think of mystery-suspense books I've read (Christopher Pike, Dean Koontz, R.L. Stine and others), they were written in third person most of the time.

I appreciate your thoughts. And if this topic has been covered - I'm sure it has - please post the thread so I can check it out. I look forward to getting to know y'all.

Thanks,
Pisceswriter in Texas

PoppysInARow · May 16, 2010

First person =/= better characterization.

This is a common misconception that many new writers have. They believe if they write a book from the point of view of their character, it will make the character more sympathic/realistic/understanding/whatever. This is not true. To write a good character you must have a GOOD CHARACTER regardless of the point of view.

You need to sit down and think about your characters. Understand them more. What are their flaws? Their weaknesses? Their greatest strength? Understand them inside and out, and they will shine through in your prose.

A lot of YA books are written in first person because it gives a great excuse to use voice. But a great voice can be acomplished in third person as well, it just takes a different approach.

When the story is being narrated in your head, what do you hear? Do you hear your MC telling the tale, or do you hear about her adventures through a narrator? Write the book in whatever pov feels comfortable.

If you want to write in third person, do it. Don't write in first person just because that's what everyone else is doing.

kaitiepaige17 · May 16, 2010

I would say write in the POV that comes most naturally to you. Like PoppysInARow said, it's not about the POV it's about the characters, and you'll create the best characters when you're writing in the POV that you feel most comfortable with.

I've read several YA novels that are in 3rd person and I thought the voices were very clear. That's because the author knew his characters. As long as you really know your characters' personalities you will be able to create successful voices for them.

Pisceswriter99 · May 16, 2010

Poppy, I like how you pointed out what I'm hearing in my head. I didn't think about it in this way. The thing is, the MC is an extension of myself in some ways. The MC possesses some of my own traits. But when I think of the story unfolding, I don't think of the MC in first person. That might sound strange because as I just pointed out, the MC is similar to me.

In my head, I'm watching the MC's actions unfold from afar. And it just seems so natural to write in the third-person. I think I'll just stick with what my instincts are telling me and write this first book in the third-person.

Good idea about getting to know your character inside and out. I took a break from writing the story even more, and I've just started doing character sketches so I can really get to know them.

Pisceswriter99 · May 16, 2010

Kaitie, thanks for your input. Also, do you know of what popular mystery-suspense books teens are reading nowadays? I couldn't really find anything last night when I was at Barnes and Noble. I was only there for about an hour. I'm probably going to head back to the bookstore today although it can be dangerous because I saw so many good YA books that I'd rather read! And that will just make me procrastinate even more!

kaitiepaige17 · May 16, 2010

Read Unwind by Neal Shusterman. It's also in 3rd person POV, but is also in 3 different voices. I think he does a fantastic job at making his characters' voices really clear and unique to them.

Pisceswriter99 · May 16, 2010

Thanks, I'll definitely check out that book.

paralus · May 16, 2010

Hi Pisces!

Just to give you a heads-up, there are a lot of agents who will reject a book on this basis alone:

In my head, I'm watching the MC's actions unfold from afar.

Whether you're writing in first or third person, there's a definite preference these days for experiencing the story through the protagonist's eyes, rather than "watching the MC's actions unfold from afar." Maybe that's why your workshop partners aren't connecting with your MC -- they feel like they're watching him/her, rather than being inside his/her head.

You need to do what you think is right for your story, of course. But I wanted to let you know that feeling is out there, so you're ready for it when you hit Queryland.

No the other one · May 17, 2010

It all depends on what is happening. If the story is mystery, then by all means, first person is an excellent idea, in that readers will only know what the narrator knows. But then again, if you want to show what is happening in other places at other times, then your piece should definately be written in third person.

perfectisafault · May 17, 2010

I wrote my (only so far) YA novel in third person and I honestly can't imagine it any other way, though I do like first person for a lot of situations (especially YA-wise).

Just whichever works for you/your betas/your editor/etc, I say. First and third person are equally awesome

eventidepress · May 17, 2010

Something recently that made me think about perspective -- I had just finished reading Fallen by Lauren Kate, and I went to talk to 3 of my friends who had already read it. We got onto the subject of first vs. third person, and all 3 of my friends mentioned that Fallen was in first person. Even though I'd just finished reading it about an hour before our conversation, I had to go get the book and double-check that I was right, it was in third person.
So if you're looking for an example of a verrry close third-person POV, I'd recommend that one. Just for comparison.

Eva O'Dell · May 17, 2010

I think it depends on the story. I've read some great books that are in 1st person and great books in 3rd person. Myself, I have a hard time writing anything other than 1st person. Maybe one day I'll try 3rd person but it hasn't felt right for one of my novels yet. My advice is always go with your gut.

Marzipan · May 18, 2010

Hi Pisces!

Just to give you a heads-up, there are a lot of agents who will reject a book on this basis alone:

In my head, I'm watching the MC's actions unfold from afar

Disagree. I doubt that many people get auto-rejections *just* because they have a 3rd person manuscript. Can you back this up please?

timewaster · May 18, 2010

The Kidd said:
Disagree. I doubt that many people get auto-rejections *just* because they have a 3rd person manuscript. Can you back this up please?

I don't think it is true either. Most of my published books are third person, alternating third or some form of omni. I've sold one in first and my current one was commissioned in third and I just changed it to first as it was easier to write that way.
You have to choose what is right for the story there are so many flavours of third and first it isn't a binary choice: you find a voice that works in a POV and tense that works for any given story - one size doesn't fit all.

Dot Hutchison · May 18, 2010

I don't think it would be rejected for the third person, but if you're watching something from across a football field, it's going to be difficult to really get into the characters. "Unfolding from afar" is going to be less accessible than, say, hovering over someone's shoulder.

dichucks · May 18, 2010

Whether you're writing first or third person, I think it's important to not just get inside your character's head, but to also get inside your character's heart. Sounds cliche but it works for me.

paralus · May 18, 2010

The Kidd,

I never said books would get rejected for being in third person. This is what I said:

Whether you're writing in first or third person, there's a definite preference these days for experiencing the story through the protagonist's eyes, rather than "watching the MC's actions unfold from afar."

If you want evidence, look at the books currently being published in YA. Almost all of them are first person or close third. Or look at the books on the New York Times bestseller list: of the top five books on the children's chapter books list (four YA, 1 middle grade), four are written in first person, one in close third.

Or, heck, ask the agents themselves. Suzie Townsend has said that she's shamelessly attracted to first-person narrators. If you read the Secret Agents' comments on submissions at Miss Snark's First Victim -- there are hundreds -- you will see that a common criticism is that the narrative is too far removed from the main character's head. Many YA agents say the first thing they're looking for is a great voice, and voice is closely connected to character. Want interviews? There are a ton linked here.

My point wasn't that first is good and third is bad. Or that a story written in third is an auto-reject. My point was that a distant, rather than close, narrative is not viewed favorably by a lot of agents.

If you don't want to take my word for it, you don't have to. Neither does Pisceswriter99, for that matter. I'm simply describing what I've observed from reading agent blogs and interviews. Nothing obliges you to trust my observations.

At any rate, here is a useful post describing the various points of view, and which ones tend to work best for certain kinds of stories.

Marzipan · May 18, 2010

Just to give you a heads-up, there are a lot of agents who will reject a book on this basis alone:

Is still like saying an agent will reject you just because your manuscript is in third person and two other people took what you said to mean the same thing. I think you need to work on your wording a little bit, but thanks for clearing up your meaning. Welcome to AW by the way

paralus · May 18, 2010

Thanks!

heatercat · May 31, 2010

First person is favored in YA. I can about guarantee they'll connect more if it's in first-person because it is a shortcut. Look at Twilight. Think anyone would've connected with bland Bella Swann if we hadn't been directly looking through her eyes? That would've been a disaster if we'd been external to her.

Smish · May 31, 2010

heatercat said:
First person is favored in YA. I can about guarantee they'll connect more if it's in first-person because it is a shortcut. Look at Twilight. Think anyone would've connected with bland Bella Swann if we hadn't been directly looking through her eyes? That would've been a disaster if we'd been external to her.

I don't think it would have mattered that much.

Close third can be just as intimate as first person. You're still seeing the story through the POV character's eyes. Look at the Uglies series for instance. Tally's voice is loud and clear, even though the novels are written in third person.

Momento Mori · Jun 1, 2010

heatercat:
First person is favored in YA.

Rubbish.

Plenty of bestselling YA fiction is in third person - e.g. Cassandra Clare's Mortal Instruments series, Scott Westerfeld's Uglies trilogy, Anthony Horowitz's Power of Five and Alex Rider series.

It's not the POV, it's the quality of storytelling and accessibility of the characters that's important.

If you're writing in first person POV and all you're doing is giving a series of actions, then no one is going to care about the character.

Writers pick the POV that helps them get closest to their character and situation - for Meyer, that was first person, for others it's close third person.

Making blanket statements about what is or is not favoured in YA re technical writing is incorrect and unhelpful.

MM

Cyia · Jun 1, 2010

paralus said:
The Kidd,

I never said books would get rejected for being in third person. This is what I said:

Whether you're writing in first or third person, there's a definite preference these days for experiencing the story through the protagonist's eyes, rather than "watching the MC's actions unfold from afar."

Show vs. tell. It has nothing to do with 1st vs. 3rd, and even (ESPECIALLY) in 1st you can't just filter through the MC's eyes. "I saw." "I heard." "I felt". Get out of their head.

heatercat said:
First person is favored in YA. I can about guarantee they'll connect more if it's in first-person because it is a shortcut. Look at Twilight. Think anyone would've connected with bland Bella Swann if we hadn't been directly looking through her eyes? That would've been a disaster if we'd been external to her.

I call B.S.

1st off, the POV is determined by the story. If the MC is in every scene, then 1st person can work. If they're not, you either have to have more than one character who narrates or you're stuck with people constantly having to relate what happened off-page to the MC so the reader knows what's going on.

Which is where the 2nd point and BS #2 comes in. BS in this case meaning Bella Swan. Twilight would have been more effective in 3rd, IMO - which is why you can't assume one way works better than another; it's an opinion. 3rd would have gotten the reader out of her head which would have shifted the focus to the story rather than the MC's brooding thoughts. Rather than "OMG, here's what happened after you blacked out/Edward got you out of harm's way" all the time, the reader could have been shown what was going on. Why do you think they had to add scenes to the movie that weren't in the book? All of the action happened away from Bella's character.

Smish · Jun 2, 2010

Cyia said:
Twilight would have been more effective in 3rd, IMO - which is why you can't assume one way works better than another; it's an opinion. 3rd would have gotten the reader out of her head which would have shifted the focus to the story rather than the MC's brooding thoughts. Rather than "OMG, here's what happened after you blacked out/Edward got you out of harm's way" all the time, the reader could have been shown what was going on.

Very good point. It's been ages since I read the Twilight novels, but now that you bring it up, I remember being annoyed about that! I was far more interested in what was happening off the pages with Edward (What happened when he went to Alaska? Did he go after Bella's attackers later and rip their heads off? What exactly happened with James? What's Edward do at night while Bella's sleeping? Etc.) than in Bella's thoughts.

So, yes, it probably would have been better in third person.

Ryan_Sullivan · Jun 2, 2010

It really depends on who the focus is on. If you have one character that the whole story revolves around, then first person is a good route. If, however, you want to focus on more than that, and have parts that don't involve that character/that character wouldn't be able to narrate about, then you would have to use 3rd person. If a story is heavy on suspense, that functions as a way to pull the reader in the same way a writer might use a specific sounding voice in first person rom-com to do. Of course every story needs both, but in different measures. What matters most, really, is what can you write best?

First person vs. third person

Pisceswriter99

PoppysInARow

kaitiepaige17

Inappropriate smiley INCOMINGGGGGG!

Pisceswriter99

Pisceswriter99

kaitiepaige17

Inappropriate smiley INCOMINGGGGGG!

Pisceswriter99

paralus

No the other one

Wait, can you explain that again?

perfectisafault

eventidepress

Eva O'Dell

Marzipan

timewaster

present

Dot Hutchison

Falling through Clockwork

dichucks

paralus

Marzipan

paralus

heatercat

Smish

Reads more than she writes.

Momento Mori

Tired and Disillusioned

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Smish

Reads more than she writes.

Ryan_Sullivan

Agented YA Writer