First person and info dump

[wornoutmumoftwo]

I just wondered how info dump/back story worked in a book written in first person.

When does it go beyond their thoughts (assuming that's allowed) and into back sory and info dumps?

I understand it in 3rd, but getting myself confused in third. I'm beta reading so I thought I should clarrify this.

Thank s in advance.

[Danthia]

When it starts to sound like the author explaining things to the reader it's an info dump. When it stays in the POV's voice and sounds like something they'd be thinking about, you're usually fine.

Of course, if you have your POV thinking about stuff that's solely for the reader's benefit it can also be an info dump (even if it is in the voice). Stuff that a character would never think about to explain, ie, "Gee, even since we landed on this planet four hundred years ago, we've hard to really work our butts off to survive. Wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for those constant raiders by the native species to the north, but what's a colonist to do?" You can figure out ways to get all this info into the story, but you'd have to be more natural about it.

[Jamesaritchie]

Back story is fine, info dumps are not. I think it helps if you remember that every word ina first perosn novel is actually dialogue. The narrator is tell the story orally, after the fact, if it's in past tense.

He's sitting across the table from you, cup of coffee in hand, telling you a story about what happeed years ago. You have to become that narrator, and when you do, it makes telling the story much easier.

[FennelGiraffe]

- Does the POV char have a good reason to be thinking about this information right now?
- Does the reader care about this information yet?
- Does the reader really need to know this information at all?*

*OK, this third question has nuances depending on how strictly you define "need", but the author having developed a lot of background as part of the writing process is no reason for dumping it all into the story.

[Lydia Sharp]

You'll know when it's ventured into "don't go there" territory. It's more like a feeling than something you can explain. You can pull off narrating backstory, and even so-called info dumps, but, as with anything else, it has to feel relevant or else you risk losing the reader.

You also have to have a distinct voice or else it will read like a text book or a historical archive. And honestly, I think that's the main thing that separates the good examples from the bad. I could read ten pages of "info dump" if it's cleverly written, and not even realize it until after the fact. And even then, I still won't be put off, because it was an entertaining read.

[Lady Ice]

I just wondered how info dump/back story worked in a book written in first person.

When does it go beyond their thoughts (assuming that's allowed) and into back sory and info dumps?


It never goes beyond their thoughts. All the information the reader learns is filtered through the POV character. You have to have reasons for the POV character to be giving information- if you can't find any way of telling us information in a natural way, it's probably not information that is needed.

[blacbird]

if you can't find any way of telling us information in a natural way, it's probably not information that is needed.

To which can be appended: A common misconception for writers is that readers need a lot more "information" than they actually do. This leads quickly into the dismal swamp of an info-dump.

caw

[Herman Munster]

My MC POV is intentional. He is doing his job but the first major event is him doing a parachute jump which it is assumed that he has trained for, but they are doing a special one, special gear. He gets instructed but develops a personal, one sided, conflict with the instructor who is accurate and patient. The MC is suffering from an immediate preceding month of lack of sleep, fatigue and a growing insanity I am very slowly developing the insanity.

So often, as a result of the creeping insanity, which he is not aware of, he rambles in his mind, can't tell if he said "that" out loud, corrects a man whose English is second language but the MC regrets doing it instantly each time he does it. Then he manages to contain himself out loud but is still doing it in his mind.

He is an expert in the field he works in and the technicals of gear he uses so he does ramble thru the schematics of stuff. Hence my issues with info dump and back story.

The point of the works, in the first place, is to make people aware of things in society that occur in our name which seem to being glossed over. I am trying to make a social point but extremely subtly, perhaps too subtle that 99% of people will miss it and even when it is explained, they still won't see it. I am too afraid to make it that obvious as it may then limit the work etc.

I get
has to feel relevant or else you risk losing the reader
People don't need to know the ins and outs of a piece of machinery but part of this is me trying to show that his head is out of control, that stuff is running around in there that shouldn't. Normal people should see this as not only unusual, but bizarre.

I don't think it is weird in any shape or form but I am worried that everyone else does.

If it doesn't advance the plot ...
If I obey this strictly then I have nothing to write. I find that my plot is singular and linear, not multi stringed. I do see my work as a video in my head which I faithfully transcribe to paper and therefore I do see my work as a full movie. Action, adventure, the adrenalin charged "go get 'em". It is not cunning, a mystery, a thriller or anything but run about and do stuff which you "see" from the MC POV. This is solely done so you see him losing his grip on reality and that his "humanity jar" is close to empty. In later works, this is developed altho I haven't decided if I will drive him insane, and even if I do, it could take 20 years. I do like the guy actually and altho I am trying to make social comment, I do see the work as valuable and going on in daily life even if we are not aware of it.

I know thast every book must be comnplete within itself so the reader gets value for money. It is never their fault if they pick up book four and not book one. Hopefully in later works, the references to the prior activities and disasters should whet the appetitie for them to go and search out book one and read them all. If only we could make that into some sort of law. I am annoyed that in book eight or whatever, I am still having to define the basics but without the prior knowledge, either from the series or the first chapter they will not get full value, still, making them all read from page 1, book 1, would make it a whole lot better for me.

Am I just being ponsy, a pansy or precious?
I don't really want you to answer that.

[wornoutmumoftwo]

Thank you to all of you for your advice. I've beta read about three first person books so far and all are written completely different, which is the reason I was getting confused.

[seun]

POV has got nothing to do with it. Don't dump - regardless of POV.

[bonitakale]

My advice would be to write it and worry later. You have a different kind of mc here, and what works will be different, too. You may need to have a lot of rambling from him to show who he is and in what state.

[Herman Munster]

I did that Boni, thort it was OK, was working for me, but everyone who has picked it up so far wants to edit it from line 1, word 1.
I have people changing the characters names, making it 3rd person as they go, so obviously it doesn't wok at all.

I will quit while I am behind. No point churning out carp just for the sake of it.
-No fish were harmed in the making of this message.