Underlining titles in manuscript format

Guy Fawkes · May 11, 2010

Hi,

I have a question about the use of underlined text in manuscript format.

According to the FAQ (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26126) it says regarding italics:

a) Emphasizing text. "You want to go where?"
b) Internal dialogue (character thoughts that aren’t spoken.) I shouldn’t have had that last burrito

However, I am wondering how you handle titles of shows, other books, and magazines in manuscript format and whether that too should be underlined.

For example, if I were to write that a charactor picked up Time magazine would the word Time be underlined since it was the title of the magazine.

Likewise, if I were to write that the character sat watching the Tonight show would the word Tonight be underlined since it is the title of the show?

I am not sure where I got the impression that this was to be done in fiction manuscript format, but if I am mistaken please tell me.

thanks

kelzey2 · May 11, 2010

We had to do that in english essays at school but I've never heard about having to do that in fiction writing and I can't remember seeing words underlined in any fiction I've read, so I don't think so, but I'm not 100% sure.

Guy Fawkes · May 11, 2010

kelzey2 said:
We had to do that in english essays at school but I've never heard about having to do that in fiction writing and I can't remember seeing words underlined in any fiction I've read, so I don't think so, but I'm not 100% sure.

Yes, this is what is driving me nuts. I could swear that titles that appear in manuscript format are supposed to be underlined so to appear as italics in print.

I am not sure where I got this, and very well may be completely wrong.

dpaterso · May 11, 2010

This ever-popular topic re-appears from time to time.

Nowadays some publishers accept Times New Roman font and actual italics in the manuscript instead of the traditional Courier font with underlined text to indicate use of italics.

But some don't, so check publisher submission guidelines first, and if you can't find the information, email them and ask.

Methinks show and magazine titles should be italicized, as you thought (that's certainly how I've seen them in print over the years), but this traditional usage could be changing with the times, as so many things do (these days, I note many newspapers print NATO as "Nato" despite the fact it's an acronym!). So I'd say just be consistent, so it's easy to change later if someone advises you to change it.

-Derek

Lydia Sharp · May 11, 2010

Like mentioned above, it depends on the individual requirement of the person/place you are submitting whether you underline or use italics.

Your question about The Tonight Show... see how I just capitalized each word there? The title is The Tonight Show, even though the words "the" and "show" make it seem like it's an odd title. So if you needed to underline to indicate italics, you would capitalize all three of those words (the entire title) and then underline the whole thing.

RJK · May 11, 2010

To answer your question about highlighting (with italics or underline) book titles, song titles, Movies titles, TV show titles, and I'm sure I've left something out, yes you do it in fiction. If you're using Courier font, underline. If you're using TNR, use italics. Just be consistent. When you get to the stage where the publisher is asking for a copy for the printer, they will tell you how to format it.

shaldna · May 11, 2010

I was always taught to use underline, regardless of font. But nowadays it seems more acceptable to use actual italics in some fonts, such as TNR, where it's easier to read.

However I still underline all my italics because that's the way I was taught.

So long as it's clear and it's consistent.

Shadow_Ferret · May 11, 2010

kelzey2 said:
We had to do that in english essays at school but I've never heard about having to do that in fiction writing and I can't remember seeing words underlined in any fiction I've read, so I don't think so, but I'm not 100% sure.

We're talking manuscripts for submission. Published writing in books or magazines use italics, which is what underlining represents.

It's easier to see underlining in a manuscript then it is to see italics. In the old days when things were still typeset, underlining made the typesetter's job a lot easier (not to mention that italics didn't really exist on a typewriter), he could SEE underlining and it was his cue to put that into italics.

Nowadays, with the computer and electronic submissions and such, I don't know.

I underline unless told otherwise. But I'm an old fart and we don't like change.

Jamesaritchie · May 11, 2010

If you're writing for a print publisher that takes paper manuscripts, underline anything you want italicized. If you're writing for an electronic publisher, use actual italics.

If you're writing for a print publisher that takes electronic submissions, check the guidelines, or ask. Ellery Queen and Alfred Htchcock, for example, take an electronic file after they buy a story, but still demand underlining.

The font doesn't matter. Underlining for italics is a proofreaders' mark, and all editors use proofreaders' marks. So do typesetters.

CaroGirl · May 11, 2010

You all know how easy it is now (in Word) to find and replace all italicized words and change them to underlined, right? If you submit your manuscript to an agent using all italics and she wants to submit the manuscript to publishers using underlining instead, it takes 2 seconds or less to change it. I doubt an agent would reject work because you used italics instead of underlining. She ain't gonna typeset the sucker, is she? And if she wants to send it to an editor with underlining, you can reformat and resend, or she can reformat it herself. It's way easy to do.

Getting hung up on stuff like this in this digital age is the height of unnecessary nitpickery.

Deleted member 42 · May 11, 2010

Shadow_Ferret said:
Nowadays, with the computer and electronic submissions and such, I don't know.

I underline unless told otherwise. But I'm an old fart and we don't like change.

Mss. are still typeset by genuine publishers; it's just done digitally.

1. Use underlines and not italics unless your publishers says otherwise--even in Times Roman.

2. Title of long works--novels, very long poems like Paradise Lost, TV series (but not individual episodes of a series), plays, films, and the title of a series of books like The Lord of the Ring are underlined (or italicized if the publishers says to use italics). Magazines, and newspapers also are long works.

3. Short works like individual short poems, short stories, individual episode titles of TV shows, essays, or articles, are placed in quotation marks. U.S publishers use double quotation marks for short titles as in "Corrinna Going A-Maying" from Robert Herrick's The Hesperides.

Lady Ice · May 11, 2010

I'd say underlining for titles, whether that's TV, film or book. Unless it's the title of a poem or article (AKA the title of part of a whole), then you can just do 'this'.

Jamesaritchie · May 11, 2010

CaroGirl said:
You all know how easy it is now (in Word) to find and replace all italicized words and change them to underlined, right? If you submit your manuscript to an agent using all italics and she wants to submit the manuscript to publishers using underlining instead, it takes 2 seconds or less to change it. I doubt an agent would reject work because you used italics instead of underlining. She ain't gonna typeset the sucker, is she? And if she wants to send it to an editor with underlining, you can reformat and resend, or she can reformat it herself. It's way easy to do.

Getting hung up on stuff like this in this digital age is the height of unnecessary nitpickery.

No, the agent isn't going to typeset anything, but the publisher must. The digital age is not an excuse to be lazy, or to assume that something is easy to do when you don't have a clue how it's really done.

And it sure isn't an excuse to assume an agent has time to reformat anything. She doesn't. Or to assume that you won't tick off an editor because he doesn't have time, either. Or to assume you'll be given the chance to reformat.

Two seconds or less to change it? That's just silly. Not all manuscripts are electronic, and even when there is an elctronic file, there's often a paper version as well, and they need to match.

The digital age has not, and never will, be an excuse notto do things the way they're supposed to be done right from the start.

Find out how the publisher wants a manuscript, and do exactly as the publisher asks. Not the agent, the publishers. Not doing this is just like saying, "I don't care how you want it, I'm doing it my way. If you don't like it, tough."

Deleted member 42 · May 11, 2010

Lady Ice said:
I'd say underlining for titles, whether that's TV, film or book. Unless it's the title of a poem or article (AKA the title of part of a whole), then you can just do 'this'.

Keep in mind that punctuation in British English is different from punctuation in American English.

In the U.S. use double quotation marks for titles of short works.

Deleted member 42 · May 11, 2010

CaroGirl said:
If you submit your manuscript to an agent using all italics and she wants to submit the manuscript to publishers using underlining instead, it takes 2 seconds or less to change it. .

That's making an offensive assumption about the value of an agents' time, and expertise. They sell your work; they don't format it.

A writer who can't follow simple instructions regarding formatting is too much trouble to deal with; agents aren't nursemaids, and they have other clients who can follow directions.

CaroGirl · May 11, 2010

Jamesaritchie said:
Two seconds or less to change it? That's just silly. Not all manuscripts are electronic, and even when there is an elctronic file, there's often a paper version as well, and they need to match.

No, it's not silly. It really does take the same amount of time to change italics to underlines as it does to change the font throughout a soft copy of a manuscript. I take your point about soft copy versus hard copy and consistency is always the key.

Jamesaritchie said:
The digital age has not, and never will, be an excuse notto do things the way they're supposed to be done right from the start.

Find out how the publisher wants a manuscript, and do exactly as the publisher asks. Not the agent, the publishers. Not doing this is just like saying, "I don't care how you want it, I'm doing it my way. If you don't like it, tough."

Of course you must follow the guidelines, always. Assuming there are guidelines, follow them absolutely to the letter; I would never advocate anything else. I was referring more to not sweating it if there are no specific guidelines because it's easy to change in the soft copy version of a manuscript.

CaroGirl · May 11, 2010

Medievalist said:
That's making an offensive assumption about the value of an agents' time, and expertise. They sell your work; they don't format it.

A writer who can't follow simple instructions regarding formatting is too much trouble to deal with; agents aren't nursemaids, and they have other clients who can follow directions.

Yeah, so, always follow guidelines. If there are no posted guidelines and your soft copy needs to be changed for submission to editors, I would gladly change my soft copy and resend. I wouldn't expect the agent to do it for me (even though it's just as easy for an agent to do as it is for me).

I certainly wasn't trying to be offensively assumptive.

kurzon · May 11, 2010

My advice is simply to be consistent. It's probably best to follow the 'standard' style, and only change in a submission if guidelines state a different requirement, but most MS-wide formatting changes can be easily accomplished by you before sending in the submission by using Find/Replace so long as you were CONSISTENT.

Underlining titles in manuscript format

Guy Fawkes

kelzey2

Still waiting . . .

Guy Fawkes

dpaterso

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Lydia Sharp

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RJK

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shaldna

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Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Jamesaritchie

CaroGirl

Living the dream

Deleted member 42

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

Jamesaritchie

Deleted member 42

Deleted member 42

CaroGirl

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kurzon