Contemporary versions of older novels...

Cbrandtwright · May 10, 2010

So, let's face it, there are similar themes that carry throughout literature, and many modern versions of older stories.

Copyright for a book I'm interested in updating falls in the category of works published after 1922, but before 1978 (which are protected for 95 years from the date of publication).

My question, I guess, is, do I have to wait? I am not copying the book directly, but updating it into a modern storyline (the characters and their personalities would remain the same, but the entire background and much of the action would change). Anyone know a precedent for this?

Thanks in advance.

shaldna · May 10, 2010

copyright in the UK is for 75 years after teh death of the writer

Momento Mori · May 10, 2010

Apart from mash-ups like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies and Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters, I've never heard of people trying to update fiction before. I know that Zadie Smith saw On Beauty as a re-imagining of Howard's End, but she didn't rip off the pre-existing book.

It sounds to me anyway as though the original book you want to use is still in copyright (at least in the UK, Australia and the US), which would take you out of the biggest markets and make the exercise redundant.

MM

Stunted · May 10, 2010

And don't just write it and not tell people that it's based on this other book because people will figure it out, and you lose the boost that comes with associating yourself with things that people already like.

In general, this sounds like a bad idea to me.

bertrigby · May 10, 2010

I was reading this article in connection to another topic (fanfiction and crazy authors), but it gives some more examples of reworked novels for you, Momento Mori, e.g.:

Jean Rhys' Wide Sargasso Sea
Dorian, Will Self's 20th C. AU riff on Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray (most relevant to the OP's idea of contemporising)
The Diary of Bridget Jones (ditto)
Boris Akunin's postmodern AU hybrid of Crime and Punishment, F.M.
Michael Cunningham's The Hours, a modernized reworking of Virginia Woolf's Mrs Dalloway.

As far as I can see though, the original works are all out of copyright. I think you risk a lot of trouble, OP, if you try to 'get round' issues like copyright - unless you manage to get permission from the author's estate.

Sage · May 10, 2010

If the novel hasn't fallen into public domain (such as Shakespeare or Jane Austen), it's probably not safe to update it without the copyright holder's permission. This is just my assumption. I am not a lawyer.

There are plenty of examples of public domain fiction being updated. And you can certainly have similar stories or references to a copyrighted book, but I don't think you make the equivalent of a Romeo and Juliet --> Westside Story with one.

Aji · May 10, 2010

Do you mean, like, using the same characters and giving it your own spin (for example, taking Harry, Ron, and Hermione from Harry Potter and then writing about their lives post Hogwarts)?

Or is it more like using a similar idea (ie: writing a story about a group of adults who grew up together when honing their magical powers)?

If the latter, I think you can do that since ideas can't be copyrighted (there's a number of published stories about kids with magical powers). Not so much the former, imo - I'm thinking about the man who tried to do an update on JD Salinger's Catcher in the Rye, but was blocked by a judge.

inkspatters · May 10, 2010

Aji said:
Do you mean, like, using the same characters and giving it your own spin (for example, taking Harry, Ron, and Hermione from Harry Potter and then writing about their lives post Hogwarts)?

Or is it more like using a similar idea (ie: writing a story about a group of adults who grew up together when honing their magical powers)?

If the latter, I think you can do that since ideas can't be copyrighted (there's a number of published stories about kids with magical powers). Not so much the former, imo - I'm thinking about the man who tried to do an update on JD Salinger's Catcher in the Rye, but was blocked by a judge.

The Salinger one DID get published outside of the US, though. I only know that because I happen to have received a copy of it for my birthday. Haven't got round to reading it, yet.

OP, I think the best thing is to just not do it unless the work's copyright has expired.

E. S. Lark · May 10, 2010

This has' bad idea' written in red ink all over it. While it is okay for us to put our spin on old tales and legends, it really depends on the lasting copyright laws. If it looks like you're in the clear, do not 'mash' things together. Forget where the article is, but an author mashed a bunch of stories together and after making a fair sum (or a big book deal - i forget) it became a huge issue.

To be on the safe side though, I'd just start something new.

Kitty Pryde · May 10, 2010

So, someone owns the copyright, but you want to retell the story? Most likely you can't publish it. On the other hand, John Scalzi just wrote a Little Fuzzy fanfic novel "reboot" and then afterward obtained permission from Piper's estate to publish said fanfic. It probably helped that he's an extremely successful established author though.

Another option is to "file off the serial numbers" and change enough stuff to make the story your own, so that your work is "inspired by" rather than "a retelling of".

Momento Mori · May 10, 2010

bertrigby:
I was reading this article in connection to another topic (fanfiction and crazy authors), but it gives some more examples of reworked novels for you, Momento Mori, e.g.:

Jean Rhys' Wide Sargasso Sea
Dorian, Will Self's 20th C. AU riff on Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray (most relevant to the OP's idea of contemporising)
The Diary of Bridget Jones (ditto)
Boris Akunin's postmodern AU hybrid of Crime and Punishment, F.M.
Michael Cunningham's The Hours, a modernized reworking of Virginia Woolf's Mrs Dalloway.

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

(Although I'm actually sitting corrected. But you get the picture).

I didn't know about the Boris Akunin actually - so that's interesting. I love his Fandorin series.

MM

Cbrandtwright · May 11, 2010

Aji said:
Do you mean, like, using the same characters and giving it your own spin (for example, taking Harry, Ron, and Hermione from Harry Potter and then writing about their lives post Hogwarts)?

Or is it more like using a similar idea (ie: writing a story about a group of adults who grew up together when honing their magical powers)?

If the latter, I think you can do that since ideas can't be copyrighted (there's a number of published stories about kids with magical powers). Not so much the former, imo - I'm thinking about the man who tried to do an update on JD Salinger's Catcher in the Rye, but was blocked by a judge.

It's more like... 10 Things I Hate About You (Taming of the Shrew) or Cinderella Story. Yes, the essence of the story is still in place, but the setting / dialogue / POV has changed entirely. The original characters still exist, but the updated situations they are in now (by moving the time to a contemporary period) will impact the entire storyline...

Cbrandtwright · May 11, 2010

Stunted said:
And don't just write it and not tell people that it's based on this other book because people will figure it out, and you lose the boost that comes with associating yourself with things that people already like.

In general, this sounds like a bad idea to me.

I had no intention whatsoever of not giving credit to what it was based on previously. The author's story I intended to update was one of the first to start my love of reading.

Cbrandtwright · May 11, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
So, someone owns the copyright, but you want to retell the story? Most likely you can't publish it. On the other hand, John Scalzi just wrote a Little Fuzzy fanfic novel "reboot" and then afterward obtained permission from Piper's estate to publish said fanfic. It probably helped that he's an extremely successful established author though.

Another option is to "file off the serial numbers" and change enough stuff to make the story your own, so that your work is "inspired by" rather than "a retelling of".

And maybe this is where I should have been more clear - I would definitely categorize my intended version as an 'inspired by' than a 'I go page by page, and include every single original plot' version.

Cbrandtwright · May 11, 2010

Thanks to all who have responded and your feedback - you've given me a lot to think about!

Morwen Edhelwen · Mar 2, 2012

There's a book called There and Back Again which is a rewrite of The Hobbit, only sci-fi instead of fantasy. The Hobbit is still in copyright.

eyeblink · Mar 3, 2012

bertrigby said:
I was reading this article in connection to another topic (fanfiction and crazy authors), but it gives some more examples of reworked novels for you, Momento Mori, e.g.:

Jean Rhys' Wide Sargasso Sea
Dorian, Will Self's 20th C. AU riff on Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray (most relevant to the OP's idea of contemporising)
The Diary of Bridget Jones (ditto)
Boris Akunin's postmodern AU hybrid of Crime and Punishment, F.M.
Michael Cunningham's The Hours, a modernized reworking of Virginia Woolf's Mrs Dalloway.

As far as I can see though, the original works are all out of copyright. I think you risk a lot of trouble, OP, if you try to 'get round' issues like copyright - unless you manage to get permission from the author's estate.

Mrs Dalloway was not out of copyright at the time. Virginia Woolf died in 1941, so her works went public domain on New Year's Day this year, i.e. seventy years after the year of her death.

There are such things as sequels by other hands to classic works - for example Simon Clark writing Night of the Triffids and Stephen Baxter's The Time Ships, which followed up H.G. Wells's The Time Machine. Both use the original characters and situations and in both cases permission was sought and gained from the Wyndham and Wells estates.

However, it is possible to allude to previous novels without using their characters and other elements. I haven't read On Beauty, but as I understand it. the novel is a contemporary novel which consciously alludes to Howards End. The Forster novel dates from 1910, but is still in copyright in the UK because Forster lived to be ninety, dying in 1970. So Howards End will not be public domain in the UK until 1 January 2041, unless the law changes before then.

I am interested in this issue as one idea I have in hand is a contemporary YA novel alluding to a well-known novel of the past. In this case, I'm changing the setting from the USA to the UK and changing the sex of one of the two principal characters.

Actually, now I come to think of it, my WIP The Plague Years alludes to The Blue Lagoon and that 1908 novel is in copyright until 1 January 2022.

Niiicola · Mar 3, 2012

Somebody did this with Lolita a while back, and there was a HUGE stink about it. The publication got canceled, then restarted, but she ended up having to pay royalties to Nabokov's son and let him write a preface that she wasn't allowed to read first. It sounded like a ginormous headache.

This article is old, but it touches on a lot of the stuff you're wondering about:

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/17/books/pact-reached-on-us-edition-of-lolita-retelling.html

mickeyDs4 · Mar 3, 2012

Instead of trying to create someone else's work, why not create your own plot/characters? Wouldn't that be less stressful than all the worry and wondering if you're going to get shut down?

Silver-Midnight · Mar 3, 2012

I really don't know how good of an idea this is. There is a lot of potential for you to get in trouble with copyright.

Ria13 · Mar 3, 2012

Kitty Pryde said:
On the other hand, John Scalzi just wrote a Little Fuzzy fanfic novel "reboot" and then afterward obtained permission from Piper's estate to publish said fanfic.

legally, he could have published it anyway as Little Fuzzy had lapsed out of copyright.

anyway, this thread conflates two different things:

* Writing your own version of a book still in copyright.

* Writing your own version of a book for which copyright has lapsed.

Morwen Edhelwen · Mar 3, 2012

I'm working on something that could be seen as a reworking of the themes of the musical Evita. It has a teenage MC based on Che Guevara who keeps a diary of his life working for a politician/clandestine radio broadcaster based on Eva Perón. BTW, I think it depends on how subtle the reworking is.

little_e · Mar 4, 2012

Niiicola said:
Somebody did this with Lolita a while back, and there was a HUGE stink about it. The publication got canceled, then restarted, but she ended up having to pay royalties to Nabokov's son and let him write a preface that she wasn't allowed to read first. It sounded like a ginormous headache.

This article is old, but it touches on a lot of the stuff you're wondering about:

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/17/books/pact-reached-on-us-edition-of-lolita-retelling.html

That's amusingly ironic, considering that Lolita itself was probably a re-write of an earlier work named Lolita involving almost the exact same basic setup. But Nabokov is a great writer, and so we remember his version, and not the one he re-wrote.

As to the OP, depending on what and how you write it, it may not be *publishable*. Heck, that's true no matter where your inspiration comes from. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth writing. Every story comes from somewhere. Everyone is drawing on and copying someone else, but its sometimes more obvious than other times. If you find the story worth writing, write it. At the very least, you'll hopefully enjoy yourself and produce something you're proud of, and maybe even become a better writer along the way. And *then* you can ask if it's saleable.

eyeblink · Mar 4, 2012

Ria13 said:
legally, he could have published it anyway as Little Fuzzy had lapsed out of copyright.

anyway, this thread conflates two different things:

* Writing your own version of a book still in copyright.

* Writing your own version of a book for which copyright has lapsed.

It also conflates a third: allusion to a previous/classic work and how far that can be taken before you potentially violate copyright.

Kitty Pryde · Mar 4, 2012

Ria13 said:
legally, he could have published it anyway as Little Fuzzy had lapsed out of copyright.

anyway, this thread conflates two different things:

* Writing your own version of a book still in copyright.

* Writing your own version of a book for which copyright has lapsed.

No, he couldn't, because the Little Fuzzy sequels are still under copyright (so that includes the name, the creatures, the world, the concepts in the story, etc). His blog states that his agent spent a long time working out permission to sell the book (before he sold the book).

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