Avoiding misunderstandings

Lady Ice · May 5, 2010

I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid but...

My protagonist has a very close relationship with his best friend. They're in their mid-to-late forties but have been friends since they were about 8 and their friendship is more like female friendships because they are both entirely open with each other.
The best friend is a player but the protagonist has problems forming relationships with women- one he had been in love with for over 20 years (they were separate for a lot of them but still...) but only just now tells her this and the other one is the young woman that his friends have taken in as a lodger. The only person for whom his love seems to be constant is the friend.

What I'm concerned about is that readers may automatically conclude that the protagonist is gay (no, I'm not saying gay protagonists are bad- it's just wrong for this context) whereas he is actually unable to let go of his friend, despite the friend being a bit of a sleaze with women, because he can't face the responsibility of being an adult and he doesn't want to destroy the one constant in his life. The protagonist simply being gay is a too simplistic judgement of the story and would change the whole theme (different types of love and their validities).

Am I just being cynical/paranoid to think that close male friendships may be construed as simply unspoken sexual desire?

NeuroFizz · May 5, 2010

You seem to be stacking stereotypes in your post. Guys are frequently open and communicative with other guys, and they do form tight friendships that can be co-dependent on an emotional level. And it doesn't make them less manly or "feminized." How your two characters interact presumably represents just one aspect of the characterization you, the author, will build for them. Carefully selected actions of your characters will sum to form an overall picture of their personality for the reader. It's your job to develop those actions to coax the reader in your intended direction.

Stereotypical characterizations of any gender will only come across to the reader if you play to them in your writing. For example, every man has a fully functional brain and it is not located anywhere near his penis.

Cella · May 5, 2010

Lady Ice said:
Am I just being cynical/paranoid to think that close male friendships may be construed as simply unspoken sexual desire?

IMO...It's more conflict that will keep the reader reading, I think.

Sounds good to me

Good luck!

Danthia · May 5, 2010

Unless you write them with unspoken sexual desire, readers shouldn't think they have any. Of course, there will always be readers who see more into a story that what your wrote, and they might wish they were a couple or wish they could be a couple, but you can't do anything about that. Just write it as you see it and don't worry about it. Unless beta readers get that sense and pinpoint what made them think that. Then you can tweak

Lady Ice · May 5, 2010

NeuroFizz said:
You seem to be stacking stereotypes in your post. Guys are frequently open and communicative with other guys, and they do form tight friendships that can be co-dependent on an emotional level. And it doesn't make them less manly or "feminized." How your two characters interact presumably represents just one aspect of the characterization you, the author, will build for them. Carefully selected actions of your characters will sum to form an overall picture of their personality for the reader. It's your job to develop those actions to coax the reader in your intended direction.

Stereotypical characterizations of any gender will only come across to the reader if you play to them in your writing. For example, every man has a fully functional brain and it is not located anywhere near his penis.

Thanks. I was just concerned how many readers revert to said stereotypes.

What complicates the relationship is that the friend is never on-stage (it's a play). We hear his voice in a phone call briefly at the end but apart from that, we only have the protagonist's viewpoint. I don't want the reader/audience to think that the protagonist is making it all up because he has a thing for his best friend. I want to show that the two are very close- which makes it harder for the protagonist to leave when the friend treats women badly.

Protagonist also refers to it as being a type of love sometimes. I just don't want them to just think 'Oh, he's gay but he can't admit it.'

Captcha · May 5, 2010

Does the story give other explanations for why the character is so attached to his friend but has trouble forming relationships with women?

If the story gives a compelling alternate explanation, I think I would believe it. If the story doesn't convince me otherwise and leaves me to figure it out for myself, I think unrequited love for the friend would certainly be an option that I'd consider.

Fallen · May 5, 2010

Lady Ice said:
Protagonist also refers to it as being a type of love sometimes. I just don't want them to just think 'Oh, he's gay but he can't admit it.'

I think the key words there are 'a type' of love. How a man loves his wife is different to how he loves his kids, to how he loves his relatives. There are variants, and that goes for friends too. If you've weaved the scene well enough, the readers will infer what type of love it is. But like already said, you'll always get an alterative interpretation.

How times change, though, eh? I hear my 17 year old lad go 'Love you man' to his mates (male) and he's as straight as they come (although I am questioning the whole photos of black stockings and pink tu-tu in the middle of town).

Dr.Gonzo · May 5, 2010

I'm open and I'm not gay. I mean, I don't think I am. Stop making me think!

lalalalalalalalalala!...!!

Need beer, steak, and ladygarden... now.

/manliness

No, I'm open with guy friends, for seriously, yA knows? We chat, express our feelings to some extent, have Friday nights for Nazi costume parties, and often hold hands as we skip back from the wine bars in town. Nothing wrong with your character having a sensitive side. Nothing at all. Nope...

Jamesaritchie · May 5, 2010

Why make the reader guess? Tell the reader the truth about why the character does what he does. Problem solved.

backslashbaby · May 5, 2010

I would wonder because of his inability to form relationships with women, and his having such a very strong one with his friend. Just because he could be gay, you know?

If he said somehow that he knew he wasn't gay, I'd 'believe' him, though. If he hadn't considered that at all, I'd think he was deep in the closet, honestly.

MoonStone · May 5, 2010

Even if they do think they are gay it won't matter. There are so many books and shows now that have this. Have you watched House? Many people say that House and his bestfriend are probably in love really (they live together)...but realistically not so. I think it just gives ppl somethin to gossip about.

frimble3 · May 5, 2010

Not Necessarily Gay

Lady Ice said:
I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid but...

My protagonist has a very close relationship with his best friend. They're in their mid-to-late forties but have been friends since they were about 8 and their friendship is more like female friendships because they are both entirely open with each other.

QUOTE]
I work with two guys like that. They lived next door to each other as kids, their families were close, they have a mutual love for ... soccer, which they've played together for years. One of them got the other one the job at our workplace. They're both married with children, sometimes the whole pack, including grandparents, goes on vacation together. Never thought of them as gay, and neither do the gay guys at work.
They're 'open' because they know each other's whole life-stories, even the stuff they didn't tell their parents. And they've seen each other totally drunk enough to break down any remaining barriers.

shaldna · May 6, 2010

Lady Ice said:
Am I just being cynical/paranoid to think that close male friendships may be construed as simply unspoken sexual desire?

Yes.

RJK · May 6, 2010

While on the police force, I rode with partners 8 hours a day 40 hours a week. We became close friends and shared everything. Those men are still close friends decades later. We get together once a month to retell war stories and drink beer. I can assure you sexual attraction was not an issue. It never crossed my mind and I'd be willing to bet it didn't enter my partners' minds.

Lady Ice · May 7, 2010

frimble3 said:
Lady Ice said:

I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid but...

My protagonist has a very close relationship with his best friend. They're in their mid-to-late forties but have been friends since they were about 8 and their friendship is more like female friendships because they are both entirely open with each other.

QUOTE]
I work with two guys like that. They lived next door to each other as kids, their families were close, they have a mutual love for ... soccer, which they've played together for years. One of them got the other one the job at our workplace. They're both married with children, sometimes the whole pack, including grandparents, goes on vacation together. Never thought of them as gay, and neither do the gay guys at work.
They're 'open' because they know each other's whole life-stories, even the stuff they didn't tell their parents. And they've seen each other totally drunk enough to break down any remaining barriers.

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was trying to achieve. The protagonist doesn't do as well with women because he is overshadowed, or has always felt overshadowed, by his best friend.

Because it's a play, all the reader/audience have is dialogue, although there might be a few telling stage directions. It's harder to be convincing.

Avoiding misunderstandings

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

Cella

Cella

Danthia

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

Captcha

Fallen

Stood at the coalface

Dr.Gonzo

Wonderfully Irreverent

Jamesaritchie

backslashbaby

*

MoonStone

in touch

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

shaldna

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

RJK

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

Avoiding misunderstandings

Makes useful distinctions

The grad students did it

Cella

Danthia

Makes useful distinctions

Stood at the coalface

Wonderfully Irreverent

~~~~*~~~~

in touch

Heckuva good sport

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

Makes useful distinctions

*