Issues with P.O.V.

Kishaz · May 3, 2010

Well, this'd be my first time making a post on this website. My name's Shayla, and please be gentle :'3 This would also be my first time attempting to write something that isn't a short story, so I'm having a bit of trouble with one thing in particular that's keeping me from starting out: My P.O.V.
I want this to half be a third-person omniscient, but there's also key points in the story- At least three times per "chapter", I'd imagine- where the main character would be speaking right from his point of view. How do I portray this? There's a little voice in my head that's telling me that an omniscient and first person view do not mix well. Are my suspicions right? Because I'd mostly be fine writing it all 100% first person if it were not for the fact that I still want to keep in the heads of some of my other characters when they're away from the main character. But these scenes would be rare-ish if anything. Even suggestions for a different way to write this would be helpful. ;w;
I'm really sorry if I sound new to this. That's due to the fact that I am in fact new to this, if that's not blatant enough. :'D

The Lonely One · May 3, 2010

Hey, Kishaz. Welcome.

Third omni and first obviously give you very different advantages and disadvantages for different scenarios. "If it works" is the answer you're probably going to get from most people--me included--because it's difficult to gauge what will work without seeing the product of it directly, and often enough really good writers defy popular opinion and do it beautifully.

I would suggest trying it out on a sample basis to see how you like it; study, if you can, how these POVS operate. What's the purpose of using 3rd omni when you do? Or if it would be better in all first person (or visa versa), consider trying it that way.

POV switching isn't a new idea so I don't see it working against you if you do it well. I'd like to be of more help, but really it's up to you and your instincs as to what works best for the story--which way gets across exactly what you want to get across exactly the way you want readers to see it?

Amadan · May 3, 2010

Mixing third-person omniscient with first-person is generally not a good idea. Being unable to keep POVs straight, and resorting to shifting POVs, is considered amateurish writing. Of course every rule has exceptions and I'm sure some authors have managed it, but I would advise that you stick to one POV unless you really know what you're doing (which means getting a lot of writing experience first).

FennelGiraffe · May 4, 2010

Hi, Kishaz. Welcome to AW. Rather than omniscient, have you considered third person limited with multiple POV characters?

Ruv Draba · May 4, 2010

Hi Kishaz, and welcome. You can put the character's thoughts into dialogue, direct thought (e.g. in italics), or describe what the character thinks since you have an omniscient perspective anyway.

Hope that helps.

Bufty · May 4, 2010

Only you know how best to tell your story, but I wonder if you have questioned yourself as to whether there is really any need for these 'rare' instances of switching to other character's POV's when those characters are away from the main character.

Is there not one principal character with whom you most want the reader to connect, and to follow throughout the tale? And whose views or reactions to events are more important -the protagonist's or those other characters?

If the tale calls for several POV's without which it would not be possible to tell the tale -Third person Limited with multiple viewpoints may be the answer.

Trial and error should show you which way works better.

Good luck

Kishaz said:
Well, this'd be my first time making a post on this website. My name's Shayla, and please be gentle :'3 This would also be my first time attempting to write something that isn't a short story, so I'm having a bit of trouble with one thing in particular that's keeping me from starting out: My P.O.V.
I want this to half be a third-person omniscient, but there's also key points in the story- At least three times per "chapter", I'd imagine- where the main character would be speaking right from his point of view. How do I portray this? There's a little voice in my head that's telling me that an omniscient and first person view do not mix well. Are my suspicions right? Because I'd mostly be fine writing it all 100% first person if it were not for the fact that I still want to keep in the heads of some of my other characters when they're away from the main character. But these scenes would be rare-ish if anything. Even suggestions for a different way to write this would be helpful. ;w;
I'm really sorry if I sound new to this. That's due to the fact that I am in fact new to this, if that's not blatant enough. :'D

Danthia · May 4, 2010

Mixing POVs like that can be done, but it's quite hard to pull off well, especially for a first novel attempt. I'd suggest trying what FennelGiraffe said. Third person limited. You get the same close first person feel (just with third person pronouns), and you can use the other viewpoints like you want.

However, I'd also agree with Bufty and ask if you really need those rare other POVs. Most of the time you can figure out a way to get that information to your reader without having to show another POV. A lot depends on why you need those other peeks. If it's only because your POV isn't present and you want to tell the reader that info, then there's a good chance you can have a character simply tell your POV what happened or work it in another way (they hear about it, read about it, etc).

Sometimes writing in one POV can be a bit more challenging, but I've found it helps up the tension and keep the mystery moving, because the POV (and thus the reader) isn't privy to everything that's happening. It isn't as obvious what's going to happen next. Might be worth considering.

Jamesaritchie · May 4, 2010

Kishaz said:
. Are my suspicions right? Because I'd mostly be fine writing it all 100% first person if it were not for the fact that I still want to keep in the heads of some of my other characters when they're away from the main character. But these scenes would be rare-ish if anything. Even suggestions for a different way to write this would be helpful. ;w;
I'm really sorry if I sound new to this. That's due to the fact that I am in fact new to this, if that's not blatant enough. :'D

New writers often want to keep in the heads of several characters at the same time, but this is usually a big mistake. Even omniscient isn't good when you start head-hopping.

I think the problem is not knowing how to get across what a given character thinks or feels without being inside that character's head. You can do it, but it takes practice, and it takes study of how other writers do it.

You can, though actions, expressions, and body language, get across anything a character thinks or feels. . .and unless you're dealing with the POV character, it's better for the read that you do not get inside more than one head per scene.

Lady Ice · May 4, 2010

FennelGiraffe said:
Hi, Kishaz. Welcome to AW. Rather than omniscient, have you considered third person limited with multiple POV characters?

Agreed- but it depends how big a scope you want. If it's about the life of Billy Bob, makes sense to keep the focus on Billy Bob. It doesn't matter what his wife wants in this case- it matters what he thinks she wants.

However, it could be Billy Bob's self-destruction. With third limited you could show how Billy feels but also how his destruction affects those around him. Billy wouldn't be able to narrate that but it would give the audience a deeper understanding into Billy's situation.

The Lonely One · May 4, 2010

John Brandon's mix of third and second person seemed not to hinder the sale of Arkansas. McSWEENY'S seemed to think it was okay, and John Brandon wrote the book during his MFA program--so he wasn't exactly Stephen King when he sold the book. And second person isn't exactly loved throughout the writing world.

I would suggest reading it (although it's not 1st/3rd, it shows an example of mixing/shifting POVs) and as I said before, trying the mix yourself. Figure out what you want out of each POV and if each pulls its weight as a storytelling device.

Writers learn through reading and writing. Do both, do both a lot. Don't be afraid to try things. See how they work in other stories.

Writing is supposed to be fun, and creative, and enlightening, not a hindrance. It's intuitive, and it's you who gets to decide ultimately what you want to do, as it's your writing career on the line, no one else's.

Lit Chick5 · May 4, 2010

What I've seen is that writing in first person can present the greatest challenge to a beginning writer. When someone sent me their manuscript to read through, I found that it was hard for the writer to disengage themselves from the character's bias POV. In suggesting 3rd person, the book turned around, like a camera, to look at all of the characters- their internal thoughts can be put in italics if necessary, but often by way of good description and action, you can show multiple POV's without having to switch perspectives. If you do indeed find it paramount to do so, divide it by chapter. Tracy Chevalier artfully works with different perspectives, moving gracefully, by separating POV's by chapter. For example, chapter 1 (longer in length)= 3rd person, chapter 2 (only a few pages)= 1st person POV and so on...

Issues with P.O.V.

Kishaz

Of the premature fish.

The Lonely One

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

Amadan

FennelGiraffe

It's green they say

Ruv Draba

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Danthia

Jamesaritchie

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

The Lonely One

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

Lit Chick5

Lover of Literature