Romance Without Falling in Love

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Mark_Young

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I'm posting here because I'm assuming I'll get better responses here than I would in the Fantasy area. If the thread needs moving I'll be happy with that.


First and foremost, I'm not asking for help for a Romance-specific ms, but a Fantasy. Now that I've said that, the main point. In the story I do have, there is a romance (or supposed to be) that doesn't seem to be working. So I came here to ask for help on it.


The couple in question has been raised in the same culture and beliefs from a peasant class type of people. Such beliefs are counter to that of their own kind. So their meeting is somewhat of a bound destiny. With no one like them, they are a perfect pair. The girl, Nahmi, is a princess with free reign to choose who to marry, as long as the man in question is of her kind. The guy, Sike, hasn't really associated much with his own people, living with the peasant class all of his life. He has some education from the past, but knows little about the customs of his own kind and his leadership skills aren't very high or developed.


Well... when I finished the ms, Nahmi and Sike never fall in love. Yet in the end, they become engaged (assumed to marry later, including a wedding would be too much for the ending I think). The complicated part is that I don't believe in falling in love, and neither do my characters, even though friends around them encourage their marriage right away and try to push them to being together romantically. It just never happens.

It might be because I put "falling in love" and "love at first sight" hand-in-hand and really, it's just rushing hormones that makes people irrational. And both my characters know that. So they take it really slow and very seriously. Both understand that if Nahmi picks Sike, it's for life forever, and he's suddenly going to become king within a few years.



Nahmi shows that she's willing to put the needs of the kingdom before her own needs. She will marry an abusive, obnoxious man as long as he will run a kingdom well. Nahmi doesn't really understand that good character to a queen can also mean good character to a people. Just because of her beliefs and experiences, she has split politics and good character into two separate areas in a person.

So Sike on the other hand represents a great fellow for her personally, but if he screws up ruling the kingdom she would blame herself for not picking someone who was right for the job.




I've written a romance before, and by almost everyone who read it they all thought it was the greatest thing I ever wrote. But this is a completely different ballgame so I'm rather stumped on how to get this romance to work. Tell me what details you need to know and I'll answer them. If it helps, Nahmi is 17 and well mature for her age. Sike is 21 and a little bit more playful and carefree.

I don't know what else is relevant.
 

Brutal Mustang

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If you don't believe in love, I don't see how you can write about it. Not in the least! My only advice would be to take any of the book's focus off their relationship, and make their engagement happen through purely outside mechanical means (politics, etc.). Otherwise you risk letting your readers down--nothing is worse than reading about something I like, and quickly realizing the author doesn't know about the subject, doesn't like it, and doesn't care.
 

RavenCorinnCarluk

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Reading through your description, I don't really see a problem. They don't have to fall wildly in love, and be all irrational and hormonal. Just from the description, they seem like the kind of people that would slowly become in love with each other, out of mutual respect and friendship. They strike me as the slow burning kind of relationship, just smoldering and long-lasting.

But if you're looking for ways to get Nahmi to pick Sike, I would do it entirely through the events that put them together. If she's a princess, and he's been hanging with the peasants, they're probably not running through the same circles, and wouldn't really know each other. So, do they meet because someone puts Sike forth as noble blood and therefore a possible suitor? Does Nahmi go on one big adventure before marrying and becoming queen, and Sike shows her how the common world is? Brutal Mustang suggested a political marriage, and they eventually love each other.

One of the first things that came to mind was her choosing Sike because he wasn't like the other suitors and courtiers, and he was honest. All her friends are like "he's dreamy, marry the cute one," and she's got her inner debate of needing to pick a king who will be a good ruler. Everyone else is deceiving, and maybe someone even tries to kill her. Sike defends her, or tells her to her face how the nobles are treading all over the peasants. Something that makes her respect him, and see the honesty in his heart, and that he has the charisma to make people like him, and can make tough but just decisions.

Those are my two cents.
 

Gillhoughly

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If you want a love story as the focus, put in conflict.

No better conflict than dropping in a second guy! He can be from the same background, etc. and offer some competition for the destined hero.

If you want to focus on the fantasy adventure element, then make it a "buddies working together" who fall in love at the end.

Or not.

It's hard to write about love if you don't believe in it. When I was going through a divorce I couldn't write a love scene to save my life, but I went great guns on a murder scene!

Your story might be more interesting if it does NOT have a predictable HEA ending, just make sure the ending is satisfying to YOU, that it's something you would totally enjoy reading.

Heck, what if the guy would make the perfect king, but he's gay. He can love her, but not looooooove her. Producing an heir might be a bit diffy, but I'm sure they can figure out something. :D
 

sunandshadow

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Falling in love doesn't have to be about love at first sight. Two people can have an indifferent or bad first impression of each other, but then discover they have common interests and bond over that and realize that they really enjoy each other's company. If one or both of them was lonely to start with, they would treasure a person who made them feel accepted and like they fit in. If one sees the other suffering, they can have a pang of sympathy and realize they want to help/protect/cheer up the other. If one sees the other being powerful or cool they can feel a deep admiration (and admiration is only one step away from desire).

Hormones aren't completely irrational either. Lust has roots in evolutionary psychology. Mate selection is about finding someone who will be a loyal and caring mate, powerful enough to provide protection and resources for their children, and contribute strong genes to those children.

Your description makes me wonder if, at the end of the book, Nahmi should be learning the lesson that "you can't separate politics from good character." Perhaps a slimy person who had her respect by always being politically correct could dramatically reveal an evil political agenda to match their unsavory character.
 

K. Taylor

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I think part of the problem you might be seeing is that as English speakers, we say we "love something" about just about anything, because we don't really have another word for it. What I always tell people is love is a verb, because feelings come and go, but it's the positive, caring (loving) actions that keep a couple, or any relationship, together. Without the logical mind seeing and remembering all those loving actions, we'd be ruled by the feelings alone, and no relationship would last past one day of one person being a jerk that day.

/two cents
 

Mark_Young

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This is 300% times more helpful then the last time I tried asking for help on this back on another forum (100% for each post). Thanks guys.

To clarify, the peasant-class people are referred to as Ekkli. (Because they are a different race.)


If you don't believe in love, I don't see how you can write about it. Not in the least! My only advice would be to take any of the book's focus off their relationship, and make their engagement happen through purely outside mechanical means (politics, etc.). Otherwise you risk letting your readers down--nothing is worse than reading about something I like, and quickly realizing the author doesn't know about the subject, doesn't like it, and doesn't care.

Reading through your post, I think my problem might be sorting out the exactness of a love relationship. I said I don't believe in falling in love (and definitely not "love at first sight"), not that I don't believe in love; guess I could've made that more clear. In almost any relationship, it's something that needs to be cultivated, grown, and expanded on. Though you might have similarities that make the process faster and easier. Maybe I got things all wrong?

I do see the point. The story starts off with the relationship (like, the second/third chapter, and I want my first chapter really short). It's not quite the first compounding conflict introduced, but it is a very strong secondary. It's what's going on "at home" while politics are in play. So if someone like you came along and picked up the book and saw potential for a great romance and you see it ruined by poor plotting of the author, I think I'm going to lose my female readers left and right.

And I don't want that to happen.

There is a point in time when both Nahmi and Sike are struggling with their feelings. She can feel a tugging towards him, something like really longing. It prompts her to visit him when he's thrown in a dungeon. He, likewise, is having the same struggles from a young man's POV, but both take a deep breath and brush it off as irrational.



Reading through your description, I don't really see a problem. They don't have to fall wildly in love, and be all irrational and hormonal. Just from the description, they seem like the kind of people that would slowly become in love with each other, out of mutual respect and friendship. They strike me as the slow burning kind of relationship, just smoldering and long-lasting.
If you want to focus on the fantasy adventure element, then make it a "buddies working together" who fall in love at the end.

I like this, actually; I can see it making the readers anxious.




But if you're looking for ways to get Nahmi to pick Sike, I would do it entirely through the events that put them together. If she's a princess, and he's been hanging with the peasants, they're probably not running through the same circles, and wouldn't really know each other. So, do they meet because someone puts Sike forth as noble blood and therefore a possible suitor? Does Nahmi go on one big adventure before marrying and becoming queen, and Sike shows her how the common world is? Brutal Mustang suggested a political marriage, and they eventually love each other.

Yeah, it was really hard for me to sort this information at the moment without going too deep, so here's round two. Both Sike and Nahmi "hang around the peasants [Ekkli] ", Sike moreso since he lives with them. Nahmi sometimes has to sneak off. It is this relationship they have with the Ekkli that actually brings them together. They don't know that the other exists, since the Ekkli that Sike hangs with is a nomadic-type group (herders and shepherds; Nahmi's group are farmers).

As to how they met, I'll get that in a second when I reply to Gillhoughly.



No better conflict than dropping in a second guy! He can be from the same background, etc. and offer some competition for the destined hero.

One of the first things that came to mind was her choosing Sike because he wasn't like the other suitors and courtiers, and he was honest. All her friends are like "he's dreamy, marry the cute one," and she's got her inner debate of needing to pick a king who will be a good ruler. Everyone else is deceiving, and maybe someone even tries to kill her. Sike defends her, or tells her to her face how the nobles are treading all over the peasants. Something that makes her respect him, and see the honesty in his heart, and that he has the charisma to make people like him, and can make tough but just decisions.

You guys are in luck. The "second guy! He can be from the same background, etc. and offer some competition for the destined hero", "everyone else deceiving", "the noble are treading all over the peasants" and from whom "Sike defends her" is all one and the same person.

Meet main villain #2, Lieutenant Day. It's a sad deal because both of my main villains seem to be more interesting characters than my main characters. (I blame “Creating a Worthy Villain” – By William G. Tapply). All the events int the story surround their actions. I mention them and the story comes alive.


Anyway, this guy represents the peak of the corruption in the government (and there's a lot of it). His life goal has been to be in a higher position and his eye is on the throne. At the urging of his mother, Day began to try and socialize with Nahmi often. She's not stupid though, and sees right through him.

After introducing the character as he passes Nahmi in a hall, he eventually meets Sike later that day. Lieutenant Day encounters Sike and finds that, despite being a "cowardly archer" he killed two forest demons and was going to sell their fur (highly, highly prized and extremely expensive). When Sike's Ekkli squire insults Day and causes a ruckus with some oxen pulling the cart, he confiscates the furs from Sike and makes a coat of them to give to Nahmi on her birthday.

Sike's Ekkli squire is later found and harassed by Day and two others as he accidentally bumped into a royal person. Nahmi comes to his rescue. When the squire realized the princess' title is secretly "Friend of the Ekkli" (which was Sike's own title) he was only too eager to tell him.


Sike writes a letter of apology for the squire and uses his hunting skills to put it in Lieutenant Day's room. Soon after Sike returns to a tavern for the Ekkli, Day enters it and demands to know the one who wrote the letter. He knows that they can't read or write, but wants to arrest Sike's squire boy. Sike stands up for the Ekkli. Day turns to leave when a girl accidentally bumped into him and this happens:

“What did I just demand?” he shouted grabbing the Ekkli's shirt and backhanding her.

“I am sorry, sir,” she pleaded.

“Do not touch me! No Ekkli should dare!”

"What about me?" Sike asked.

Day turned around in time to see a fist in his face.


The fight gets Sike into trouble and he's banished from the castle and the adjoining market. This means he is barred from the mandatory attendance to Nahmi's birthday.

The squire was left in the castle while Sike was going back to Ekkli people he knew. So the squire managed to use his smarts (reading skills he learned from Sike) and short height to get into Nahmi's birthday and sneak up to Nahmi.

While there, he watched a performance by Day as he tells the story about how he had killed the two forest demons with his sword (that Sike actually killed). He claims he did it in the name of love for Nahmi and gives her the coat. The squire tells Nahmi not only who killed the forest demons, but why, and it prompts Nahmi to [gladly] leave her own birthday party. (As a side note, this fateful occurrence happens to save her from an assassination attempt from a foreigner by poison.) So she leaves the castle and meets Sike in a surprise. (Of course, while she was away, Day's rank was increased and he was knighted by the King himself for his brave hunting, as well as given Nahmi's hand in marriage which will overrule her choice of another man.)
 

Brutal Mustang

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Reading through your post, I think my problem might be sorting out the exactness of a love relationship. I said I don't believe in falling in love (and definitely not "love at first sight"), not that I don't believe in love; guess I could've made that more clear. In almost any relationship, it's something that needs to be cultivated, grown, and expanded on. Though you might have similarities that make the process faster and easier. Maybe I got things all wrong?

I do see the point. The story starts off with the relationship (like, the second/third chapter, and I want my first chapter really short). It's not quite the first compounding conflict introduced, but it is a very strong secondary. It's what's going on "at home" while politics are in play. So if someone like you came along and picked up the book and saw potential for a great romance and you see it ruined by poor plotting of the author, I think I'm going to lose my female readers left and right.

And I don't want that to happen.

There is a point in time when both Nahmi and Sike are struggling with their feelings. She can feel a tugging towards him, something like really longing. It prompts her to visit him when he's thrown in a dungeon. He, likewise, is having the same struggles from a young man's POV, but both take a deep breath and brush it off as irrational.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. And perhaps I might add some input on the whole concept of "falling in love" versus "working towards love" thing.

I can meet a man, and never love him in the way a woman loves a man. Because something isn't there (sexual attraction). When this happens, no greatness of his character, no relational work is ever going to make me feel something special for him. And it may sound shallow, but I'll never give him a chance--I like being single more than being with someone I'm not attracted too. On the other hand, I've been drawn towards certain men right off the bat who weren't that great character-wise. And those ones, I would give a chance, because the attraction is there. So there is this important uncontrollable sexual attraction facet to love, from which the term "falling" comes from.
 

job

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I'm doing a multiple tl;dr on this, so I may be missing some points.

You got a pair of protagonist and they don't fall in love.
What exactly is the problem?

If you were writing genre Romance and stepped up and said -- 'these two don't fall in love' -- then you would indeed have a problem.

But you are writing fantasy.
In SF&F the presumption is non-standard social relationships.

So your folks can belong to a society where marriage/sexxoring/both are unrelated to love;
where romantic love is not recognized to exist;
or is only played out between a high caste man or woman and a purchased concubine;
where love is a tragedy to be avoided at all cost -- a form of madness;
is a stylized game of adultery between knight troubador and high-born lady;
must always be homosexual;
occurs only in an intimate, unconsumated, lifelong relationship between cousins;
is a moral weakness and a turning away from God;
is the shoddy, plaything of peasants;
is the sport of young teenagers, and then put away upon maturity . . .

Do you see what I'm getting at?
All those examples existed in human socieities. How much odder is your non-human society going to be?

You don't need to conform to the 'falling in love' trope of C21 in America. You can create an exciting, non-romance relationship between these two.
What is it? How do they form it? What does it cost them? What do they want from each other? How do they change?


OTOH . . . if you do want them to fall in love but you just don't want this to happen in the first 30,000 words -- there are many books, Romance genre and other, where the protagonists take a while.
 
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