the easiest way to get an agent

[JustinoXXV]

Here is the easiest way to get an agent.

I have a friend of mine who is an indie director who has completed film. I decided to help on, so on his behalf I contacted some distribution companies. They've expressed interest, and they are watching his movies now.

I then called the top agencies, and asked if they would negotiate distribution deals for directors. They all said they would. Some big ones were willing to negiotiate directly, while others wanted referrals from the distributors.

But that is the way you actual get an agent. With money on the table! All you have to do is call them up (if there's $$$$$$$$ they're interested).

It would be the same if you got a producer to give you an offer. You'd be able to call up any agency.

[Joe Calabrese]

I agree that it is a good way to get an agent, get a deal first and the agents will come.

But keep in mind that everything is relevant and proportional.

If you have a million dollar deal from Paramount, you can call William Morris and the likes and they will gladly rep you for their 100K, but if you have a 100K deal, you can forget WM, ICM, and the big boys.

But, it is easy money for them, so why not?

An agent is supposed to take you and if it is a one shot deal they may get some money, but not enough to warrant taking you on as a client for a year.

The easiest way to get an agent is to write great scripts, get some buzz about them (comps, coverage, read requests, word of mouth, etc) and if they read it, like it, it is marketable, and you can show talent with multiple scripts of similar calibre, they will sign you.

[WritingFool]

JUSTIN, two parts here. Number 1. Are you saying you have found representation by using this tactic? If so Id like to know if you'd share with whom, to earn some credibility to your name, and your advice.

Number 2, is the problem I see with this tactic altogether. It all comes down to your writing, and what type of agent you want to settle for. Heck, just about any con artist can get whatever credentials it takes to market himself as an agent. A good writer who deserves representation shouldnt have to worry about finding an agent or a manager, because a good writer will have taken time to perfect the craft. Will have taken time creating very good compelling stories. A good writer will have good works to show a quality agent, that will show consistentcy in that persons writing.

Becareful what you wish for people, you might just get it.
You want an agent, theres plenty of fake ones out there. I'm interested to see how many query letters youve sent out, and the types of responses you get.

I get the impression your looking for the easy way in, and you might get just that. Whether you stay in, is an entirely different story. Its true writing SKILL that keeps you in. So if youre doing anything and everything just to "get in" (represented), you just might get that, but if youre writing skills arent up to par, youre going to find yourself kicked off the block.

Do the work! Let your writing speak for you! No easy way to it, cause if there was, everyone would be "in". You either have the skills needed, or you keep working at them until you have aquired them. Theres no easy way whatsoever. And there shouldnt be.

So good luck trying to find an easy way in. Everyone else, I hope its a hard and testing process. This way it will feel so much better when youve earned your way in.

Good luck to you all.
Even you Justin!

[JustinoXXV]

JUSTIN, two parts here. Number 1. Are you saying you have found representation by using this tactic? If so Id like to know if you'd share with whom, to earn some credibility to your name, and your advice.

Number 2, is the problem I see with this tactic altogether. It all comes down to your writing, and what type of agent you want to settle for

Wow, a no name person who likely hasn't done anything but knows everything sees a problem with my tactic. Oh, lord, the horror.:)

Reread what I wrote.

A friend of mine is an independant director. He graduated film school. He has made films that were shown at film festivals. I queried certain film distribution companies on his behalf. Meanwhile, we called the big agencies.

As for what agencies would out of the blue negotiate an offer on the table?

The very biggest ones, if there's money on the table, will certainly do so. I called them myself, and asked if they close distribution deals. All of the big ones, WMA, ICM, Endeavor, etc do so. There are even filmmaker magazines that publish the names of agents at the big agencies that do most of the indie deals at said agency.

I in no way said someone who hasn't done anything could just walk in an agency. My friend GRADUATED from FILM SCHOOL and SHOT his OWN movies.

Well, an offer from the distribution companies would indeed get my friend long term representation. As he has shot SEVERAL movies, and is SHOOTING one now. Someone in his position can EASILY get an agent.

Getting into the film industry isn't as hard as you make it. It's a money making business like any other, and if legit people are convinced that they can make money off an association with you, they'll do business with you.

I'll not mention the names of the indie director or the distributors by the way, because it would be rude of me to mention their names on a public forum.

But I will say this. Anyone who knows anything about the industry would agree with me if you have a legit deal on the table, you will get yourself an agent. Period. And there's no need for queries in these cases.

[WritingFool]

My question was did you find representation for yourself, plain and simple. For your own writing projects

[JustinoXXV]

My question was did you find representation for yourself, plain and simple. For your own writing projects

And I'm ignoring your question, plain and simple.:)

[Joe Calabrese]

It is safe to assume that the vast majority of screenwriters here (not including novelists who are repped for that purpose) are not repped. That includes Justin. So why drudge up what is obvious.

Just to keep things honest. As of this week, my manager of over a year, has decided to move on (retire) and I too am one of the unwashed masses.

That is not to mean that Justin (or anyone in the same boat) is more or less credible or appreciated. We can all learn from his/our experience, observations, talent and even his/our mistakes.

Just take with a grain of salt and shake.

[Writer1]

On August 20(a Friday) JUSTINO posted this question on Done Deal.

Does anyone know of a list of good film sales agents? You know, the reps that show around completed films and who negotiate deals with distributors?

Two days later(on Monday the 22nd) he's suddenly an expert...Geez.

[Joe Calabrese]

Writer!. No one likes a stalker.

[JustinoXXV]

On August 20(a Friday) JUSTINO posted this question on Done Deal.

Does anyone know of a list of good film sales agents? You know, the reps that show around completed films and who negotiate deals with distributors?

Two days later(on Monday the 22nd) he's suddenly an expert...Geez.

And after I posted that, I used that thing they call the telephone and called people.

Your point?

[Joe Calabrese]

How about I start deleting threads that become a tit for tat between two or more hostile members-- or I could just ban...

[JustinoXXV]

Do whatever you think is most appropriate.

[scripter1]

If you have money you will always get some kind of attention.
You can buy your way into almost anything.

The problem with your "easy" way is you've got to have other people who are willing to invest in your work or put their hard earned money on the table for you. That means they either really trust you and like you or they've seen your writing and really belive in that.

If you have friends in the industry that have bucks and will go to bat for you then you are halfway there. All that's left is to deliver.

For the rest of us it is ALL ALL ALL ALL about the writing, and the querying, and the networking, and hard work.

Best of luck to you Justin.
Hope things work out.

[Witness]

One would assume that with a deal on the table--any agent would be willing to represent the writer or writer/director. However, agent representation--for any situation--is not a gurantee.

Read the Wordplay column entitled "Cover Me." It's #39. The second to last paragraph, just before the link to Sample Coverage #5, reveals the difficulty to get an agent to represent you.

[dpaterso]

So all I need is an indie director friend who has completed a film, and I'm all set. Great! I'll start looking for one right now, and I think everyone should do the same.

You really ought to consider a weekly column packed with helpful insider tips like this little gem. I'm sure people would willingly pay a subscription fee.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

[Joe Calabrese]

You misunderstood.

Justin said that an agent would be willing to rep his director friend, not him (or the screenwriter for that matter). Only to rep the sale of that film.

What Justin meant is get a sale and then agents will be receptive to take your money and rep you.

But I ask why would I want to give an agent 10% of my sale for negotiating when a lawyer would be much cheaper at that point. Unless the agent was willing to take me as an ongoing client on not just rep this one shot deal, I would be crazy to give money away like that.

And there lies the problem. Would an agent take a newbie on full time and for long term for one sale? Not unless this writer can prove he is a screenwriter and not a one hit wonder.

As for a shady way of getting an agent. How about this scenario. A writer convinces a friend to pretend to be a producer and strikes a fictitious deal. Writer pretends to agree to give him a script for 25K (writer take out a mortgage and "loans" the money to the filmmaker who returns it later). Contact an agency to rep the deal. Writer give the agent his 2.5K, the filmmaker a grand for his troubles.

So, for 3.5K the writer has an agent. The film mysteriously goes belly up and never gets made. Just never tell him the truth.

So, based on Justin's theory, anyone with money and a filmmaker friend can get an agent.

Then again, don't you think agents would know this scheme and others?

[Enigma]

Justin and I have had our differences, but in this case, I applaud his chutzpah. Whatever it takes, so long as nobody gets hurt, and it's original, to get your foot in the door and meet the people, then all's fair. Oblique is a good tatic to use, and very effective.

Once you have a good script, get in and sell the sucker any way you can!

Crashing parties? Been done, too often.
Stalking? Illegal, and can get you shot.
Buy the house next door? Too expensive.
Hang out where they hang out? You could develop a drinking problem.
Landing a helicopter on his front lawn? Maybe, if you're a pilot.
Raming their car? Too risky, except in LA where traffic rarely moves.
Fake an appointment? Yeah, if you're a good actor and the secretary is a total idiot and/or unarmed.
By claiming you're a reporter? Not too difficult, except to arrange.
Query letters, etc? Hurts the postman's back carrying all of 'em in and the garbage man's back taking them out.
Running naked down Wilshire Blvd? Only if you're into comedy.
Writing more scripts? If you have the closet space to store them.
Web page? Jury is still out on that one.
Approach the seat of power? Yes, the man's secretary. She runs the joint.
Money? Works like a charm, every time; 2-5% on the current deal, subject to certain conditions, standard commission rates on the next. Consult your attorney.

Oh, and, Joe; WM and I think ICM are 15% now. They didn't like the 10% cap so they made a "rules adjustment" about eight months ago. Others will follow their lead so get a grip. images/icons/icon8.gif

[Joe Calabrese]

Oh, and, Joe; WM and I think ICM are 15% now. They didn't like the 10% cap so they made a "rules adjustment" about eight months ago. The horror!. I wish I could be repped (in this case raped) by those guys. The extra work I would get by being their client more than makes up for the extra percentage.

[preyer]

other ways to get repped:

deal with the devil

send 'em hookers with your name on their naughty parts

blackmail

get sent to prison

give them a free trial roll of toilet paper with your script written on it

instead of writing 'wash me' on their windshield, write your script. may take awhile.

become an agent yourself, pretend you're your own client

rewrite their bible and insert pieces of your own script, then make it seem like your 'the chosen one' through a series of comical antics ala 'three's company' or 'i love lucy'

join the masons. they control everything. good if your car breaks down, too, just use the secret mason signals to let passing masons know a brother is in distress

start a cult

insert 'buy xxx's script' into their fortune cookie

put up fliers for your lost dog, then throw your dog into their yard. offer a reward. strike up a conversation. 'oh, you're an agent, huh? well, this has turned out to be *both* our lucky days, because it just so happens....'

sky-write parts of your script. someone's bound to see it

replace in-flight reading material with your script. disguised as a sky hop, 'misplace' their briefcase and laptop

have an affair with his wife. tell her you need tons of money so you can buy her hawaii, but first you need an agent

pose as a police detective and ask to see your script because it may contain secret information about aliens and you have to get it back for national security reasons. just leave a message with the secretary. give 'em a chance to find the script and read it

invite them to a secret wedding between jennifer lopez and (insert name of anyone. wanna marry her? take a number and she'll be in with you shortly). hire lookalikes and go through with the whole thing so you get plenty of chances to talk to him, preferable while he's liquored up

offer to be his indentured servant for two years as long as he makes an effort to sell your script

get a sex change operation then seduce him. alternately, if you're the opposite sex, get hot. alternately, if you're the *same* sex, drop whatever belly flop preventing you from bending over and grabbing your ankles

become their children's teacher, have the class do as homework your script. tell them to be sure to get their parents to help write a detailed analysis, else they'll fail and will never go to college

get some actors to enact a phony segment on jerry springer and other talk shows. string them all together and make a disk out of it and your movie is half done

tackle a hired thief as he running down rodeo drive after purse-snatching their wife's gucci handbag

replace their real newspaper with one you made, mention yourself several times

replace their favourite cd's with the same ones only with subliminal message embedded saying to rep you

or just be creative.

[Joe Calabrese]

I have never laughed sooooo hard.

Thank you for making my week.

[StephieM]

I think I'll start from the bottom of the list and work my way up. :tongue

Steph

[GonnaBeFamous]

But I ask why would I want to give an agent 10% of my sale for negotiating when a lawyer would be much cheaper at that point. Unless the agent was willing to take me as an ongoing client on not just rep this one shot deal, I would be crazy to give money away like that.



If you have a few scripts laying around besides the selling script isn't that adequate? Doesn't everyone have at least 3 to 5 scripts laying around besides their first selling script? I'm a newbie and even I have written a few already.

[Joe Calabrese]

If you have a few scripts laying around besides the selling script isn't that adequate? Doesn't everyone have at least 3 to 5 scripts laying around besides their first selling script? I'm a newbie and even I have written a few already.I don't follow you.

[preyer]

you're welcome.

i think what GBF is suggesting is that if you essentially buy your way into representation by having a deal already on the table, that if you show that agent additional scripts of good quality they'll be likely to give you ongoing representation beyond negotiating that one deal. something like that, right?

certainly you should have other scripts. were i an agent in this situation and the script was good, i'd be interested in seeing another. i mean, that's their job, right? to take on scriptwriters that make sellable product? by 'good,' of course, i mean what people will buy. we had a saying in the factory concerning the quality of what we made as a supplier: 'the part is perfect if the customer buys it and doesn't send it back.' 'good' is what people will buy. hell, that's 'perfect.' if your blatant rip-off of 'sideways', called 'upwards' and replacing wine with cigars, is bought, that's a 'good' script, no? lol.

after the agent made their easy, easy money off you, would they be interested in more? i'd venture to say yeah. maybe 'likely' is better. that is, of course, as long as you make it known that you're interested in representation. i wouldn't expect them to ring *my* bell. i'm pretty sure they'd have a lot of questions for you, too.

what does any agent want? to make money off of you on a consistent basis, right? while they'll be more than happy to take your money for not having done half the work, you'd probably better have more material for them if they ask, 'what else do you have that we can sell?' the more the better.

i don't know if the scenario of bringing in an agent for the negotiation and giving them full commission would work if that was contingent on the agent taking you on as a client. i think all you're buying, at best, is a chance for them to look at your other material. considering their viewpoint, i certainly wouldn't make any promises without seeing everything you've got... but i'd sure as hell take your money if you're going to give it to me.

[GonnaBeFamous]

Yeah what preyer said. Only a one script person would have to worry about not getting representation from an agent if they need to close a deal. If you have 2 or 3 or 5 scripts laying around besides the one that is going to sell you should get representation. I don't see how an agent wouldn't want to represent someone who not only has a sale to be done but has OTHER scripts written which shows he didn't spend 10 years writing one script or that he put all of his energy in one script.

[Joe Calabrese]

Yeah what preyer said. Only a one script person would have to worry about not getting representation from an agent if they need to close a deal. If you have 2 or 3 or 5 scripts laying around besides the one that is going to sell you should get representation. I don't see how an agent wouldn't want to represent someone who not only has a sale to be done but has OTHER scripts written which shows he didn't spend 10 years writing one script or that he put all of his energy in one script.I see now. You, as do many newbies, all are under the common misconception that every script you have is a blockbuster or an oscar pick and producers would certainly buy them all for billions if they only knew of its very existence.

Guess again.

Even the best of screenplays need several things to be in place in order to be sold. A cosmic kismet and order to the universe so to speak.

A producer, the right producer, must read your script, fit their love, need, expectations, goals and desires. If it does, they MAY buy it, only if the numbers are there.

They do board reviews, run it up the ladder, see what demographics and marketabilty it would have, see if McDonalds would do a cross promotion, make sure it doesn't change their image (Disney may love your script about a pedophile, but they will never buy it.)

It may be good, it may be great, but it has to fit a variety of financial and branding criteria for any producer and the timing must be just right.

Just a side tangent for a sec.

... and producers check out what others in the industry thought and found out when they read your work.

Do you know that a vast majority of scripts written and passed around town are tracked?

It is a secret "members only" place where major producers and agents can get info on what other industry folks thought of a script that has been going around and up or down the ladder.

A script has a shelf life of about a year and then it goes into slumber for a good five before people forget what they hated about it before.

I'm serious. Exaggerating a bit, but still serious.

The point of all this is that a screenwriter write dozens of specs in hope of selling one. Even Goldman, Mamet, Logan, Black or any of the other gods don't sell everything they put down from scratch.

So to answer your question, unless an agent will take you on as a steady client, why would you throw away ten percent?

You wouldn't. You hope that agent reads your other works, is impressed beyond belief and knows a few execs who would love it too. Only then will he work as your agent and earn that percentage.

Otherwise, he'll say he is your agent, sign a contract as such, maybe take a few phone calls from you in the first month, maybe mention your name at a party or two, but he is only an agent in name and will not work hard to promote your work. After a year, you are back to being unrepped. He got percentage and did nothing to earn it.

[GonnaBeFamous]

So how do you avoid an agent that "pretends" that he wants you to be a client for a year when all he really wants is a fast buck? Always Use an entertainment lawyer for closing a deal?

[Joe Calabrese]

Ahhh, the question of the ages....

I don't know.

Deal with established and reputable agents/agencies and write a lot of damn good scripts.

And get an agent before that big sale if you can. Then you know they like you for who you are.

Personally, if I was in the situation Justin posted, I would get a lawyer to close the deal, send out a lot of press releases, throw a party and then go find an agent with real credentials behind me to prove I am a writer.

[GonnaBeFamous]

That sounds good Joe. Agents have to be champions of your work and yeah probably closing on a deal isn't probably enough to motivate them about your writing.

Then again most production companies don't take queries. So seems like most of us have a better shot of finding an agent first anyways...

[Joe Calabrese]

Then again most production companies don't take queries. So seems like most of us have a better shot of finding an agent first anyways...A lot of companies take queries. There are plenty of resources out there to find out which ones do, but Scriptpimp.com is good.

There is also just sending a query to a company anyway. Mail must be opened, you never know if a check is inside.

The trick is getting the letter to the right person and not just "Dear Sir." and making sure it is the best pitch you can muster in one page.

[GonnaBeFamous]

What if your best script winds up being a high concept thriller that requires a 100million dollar budget. Would you send it unsolicited to a studio then?

What do you think about the hollywood creative directory? IT claims to give a history of all agents and their contact information. I think even producers too.

[Joe Calabrese]

What if your best script winds up being a high concept thriller that requires a 100million dollar budget. Would you send it unsolicited to a studio then?There are no 100mil scripts. Budgets that high, or tent pole films, are from attachments. War of the Worlds could have been made for 30-40 million if not for Speilberg, Cruise and the extremely quick production schedule. In that case, they paid over top dollar to make sure everything got made in the time alloted. I heard the carpenters alone made triple time pay for that film shoot.

One rule for new writers is to write films that can be made for under 15 million but over 5 million. This way you can attacks the most producers, companies, studios with room to spare. If you write a low budget art house film you can only query small companies or indies, if you write Star Wars you can only go after the big boys.

In either case a script should be queried to entities that have done similar and cost equivalent projects.

If you have a high budget script, there are large companies that take unsolicited queries.


ADDED: HCD is good but the online version is better as is updated more frequently. Other avenues for contacts are the WGA website, scriptpimp and a few other I can't think of right now.

[Optimus]

www.donedealpro.com (http://www.donedealpro.com/) is pretty good. It's basically a poor man's HCD, for about 1/8th the price. I think it's $30 or $40 a year. I have it and am happy with it.

www.imdbpro.com (http://www.imdbpro.com/) is awesome. LOTS of info. I find that it's much more valuable than HCD, as you can access agents, managers, producers, get their email addresses, what they've sold, what just sold, what's in development, industry news, box office numbers, et cetera, for about $13 a month. It's an incredible resource, but only for those people who are serious about selling. They offer a 14 day free trial, so it would behoove those serious about this industry to take it for a test drive.


However, as Joe has said, the "best way to get an agent," is to write a killer script. Anything less just results in bitter, vapid posts on an internet message board.

[NikeeGoddess]

so, i'm adding to all that good advice: don't shoot your wad too early!

you may think you have a fantastic idea; the answer to what hollywierd is looking for, the next best thing since sliced bread - but, other people must say that about you and your script as well: consultants, contests, seasoned writers, etc.....
if you query and agent or production company too early then you ruin your chances with them in the future. they keep track of crap queries writers so they know when you query them again that they don't have to bother reading it for a second time. they'll assume that 2nd query is just as crappy as the first one. you blew it!

okay - now i'm broke.

[Enigma]

other ways to get repped:

deal with the devil

send 'em hookers with your name on their naughty parts

blackmail

get sent to prison

give them a free trial roll of toilet paper with your script written on it

instead of writing 'wash me' on their windshield, write your script. may take awhile.

become an agent yourself, pretend you're your own client

rewrite their bible and insert pieces of your own script, then make it seem like your 'the chosen one' through a series of comical antics ala 'three's company' or 'i love lucy'

join the masons. they control everything. good if your car breaks down, too, just use the secret mason signals to let passing masons know a brother is in distress

start a cult

insert 'buy xxx's script' into their fortune cookie

put up fliers for your lost dog, then throw your dog into their yard. offer a reward. strike up a conversation. 'oh, you're an agent, huh? well, this has turned out to be *both* our lucky days, because it just so happens....'

sky-write parts of your script. someone's bound to see it

replace in-flight reading material with your script. disguised as a sky hop, 'misplace' their briefcase and laptop

have an affair with his wife. tell her you need tons of money so you can buy her hawaii, but first you need an agent

pose as a police detective and ask to see your script because it may contain secret information about aliens and you have to get it back for national security reasons. just leave a message with the secretary. give 'em a chance to find the script and read it

invite them to a secret wedding between jennifer lopez and (insert name of anyone. wanna marry her? take a number and she'll be in with you shortly). hire lookalikes and go through with the whole thing so you get plenty of chances to talk to him, preferable while he's liquored up

offer to be his indentured servant for two years as long as he makes an effort to sell your script

get a sex change operation then seduce him. alternately, if you're the opposite sex, get hot. alternately, if you're the *same* sex, drop whatever belly flop preventing you from bending over and grabbing your ankles

become their children's teacher, have the class do as homework your script. tell them to be sure to get their parents to help write a detailed analysis, else they'll fail and will never go to college

get some actors to enact a phony segment on jerry springer and other talk shows. string them all together and make a disk out of it and your movie is half done

tackle a hired thief as he running down rodeo drive after purse-snatching their wife's gucci handbag

replace their real newspaper with one you made, mention yourself several times

replace their favourite cd's with the same ones only with subliminal message embedded saying to rep you

or just be creative.

You are sick! Real sick, but that was funny so don't see a doctor anytime soon. I enjoyed it too. http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[JustinoXXV]

You misunderstood.

Justin said that an agent would be willing to rep his director friend, not him (or the screenwriter for that matter). Only to rep the sale of that film.

What Justin meant is get a sale and then agents will be receptive to take your money and rep you.

But I ask why would I want to give an agent 10% of my sale for negotiating when a lawyer would be much cheaper at that point. Unless the agent was willing to take me as an ongoing client on not just rep this one shot deal, I would be crazy to give money away like that.

And there lies the problem. Would an agent take a newbie on full time and for long term for one sale? Not unless this writer can prove he is a screenwriter and not a one hit wonder.

As for a shady way of getting an agent. How about this scenario. A writer convinces a friend to pretend to be a producer and strikes a fictitious deal. Writer pretends to agree to give him a script for 25K (writer take out a mortgage and "loans" the money to the filmmaker who returns it later). Contact an agency to rep the deal. Writer give the agent his 2.5K, the filmmaker a grand for his troubles.

So, for 3.5K the writer has an agent. The film mysteriously goes belly up and never gets made. Just never tell him the truth.

So, based on Justin's theory, anyone with money and a filmmaker friend can get an agent.

Then again, don't you think agents would know this scheme and others?

I somehow don't think that scheme would work, Joe.

How excited the agent is to rep you depends on money on the table and on WHO is offering the deal to you. My friend the director is being considered by some pretty decent indie distributors.

If any of you get a decent offer from a producer (however you get to the producer is another matter), you'll be able to call up agencies, and they would take you. Sometimes in cases like this producers will refer you to agents they know.

Nikee, there is no universal script or query that you can send off that is going to thrill everyone. Likewise, you won't and shouldn't universally thrill consultants, contests, etc. No matter what you write, there will always be people who think it sucks. The thing is you need the RIGHT people to READ your work.

No offense to Joe (and yes, I've dealt with good consultants and bad consultants). But the fact is most consultants are hacked our writers who couldn't make a living at writing, so that's why they became consultants (I'm not talking about consultants hired by producers and studios). These sham consultants advertising their services to beginner writers don't know what's going to be a hit. Neither do the contests. A script could still win the contest and not get sold or be a commercial hit.

At some point the writer needs to master screenwriting and have FAITH in his or her own work. You don't need to pay people to tell you if you're going to make it.

And by saying this I'm not telling people to avoid dealing with consultants or taking classes to help them improve their righting. I am saying these so called experts who sell their services are not infalliable.

[Joe Calabrese]

Justin. You missed my point.

And how did this turn into a consulting bashing thread?

[Witness]

JustinoXXV

What consultants are claiming to help shape a script into a hit? If they make such claims, then of course, avoid them. However, I believe what they offer is to help strengthen the quality of the script. Now, whether or not they can do this...

And for a script winning a contest and not being sold or being a commercial hit--what's your point? Do contests claim to do so? Not the ones I've heard about.

I agree that the writer ought to master screenwriting, and should know his work better than anyone. Since we are not perfect, our work will contain errors, unfulfilled promises, and opportunities for exploitation left untouched. And because of this, it doesn't hurt to have another set of eyes look at our work and help sharpen our critical eye.

[JustinoXXV]

I in no way bashed consultants. I did say that there are legit consultants out there. However, I stand by what I said in there being a lot of hacks who couldn't make a living writing, so they began consulting. If these people knew so much about writing, they'd write HITS themselves (unless of course they're suffering from a lack of talent). Or at least get consulting gigs working on studio projects. If they only or mostly make a living off of newbie writers, there's a red flag right there.

Whether or not you need a consultant depends on where you are in your writing abilities and career. Once you've mastered writing, you don't need a consultant. You could join a writer's group or join services like Zoetrope or Triggerstreet for that kind of coverage.

My concern with Nikee's statements is sounds like she's spending a lot of money to get someone to stamp GOOD on her work.

That's not at all necessary. Learn to write well, and have faith in your own work.

[Joe Calabrese]

so, i'm adding to all that good advice: don't shoot your wad too early!

you may think you have a fantastic idea; the answer to what hollywierd is looking for, the next best thing since sliced bread - but, other people must say that about you and your script as well: consultants, contests, seasoned writers, etc.....
if you query and agent or production company too early then you ruin your chances with them in the future. they keep track of crap queries writers so they know when you query them again that they don't have to bother reading it for a second time. they'll assume that 2nd query is just as crappy as the first one. you blew it!

okay - now i'm broke. This is what Nikee said and has no emphasis on spending money on critique, but to make sure your work is ready before sending it out.

[NikeeGoddess]

yeah, i never said anything about spending a lot of money. in fact, i say you should be even more sure of your work BEFORE you invest in contests and consultants. it's just that most people don't. they're too anxious.
and...

Once you've mastered writing, you don't need a consultant.

in theory this should be true but, since screenwriting is not a science and is very subjective to the industry at the moment and to whomever is buying at the moment then there is no real "mastering". true you can be technically perfect but, if you're not writing what the industry wants then you're still not going to sell. and some top producers rely on the opinions and recommendations of specific (one who is in their camp) consultants to guide them.

[Chesher Cat]

I agree with Nikee and Joe. Be patient. Don't send anything out until it's ready. And I'd go a step farther. When you think it's ready, pretend you sent it out (or maybe even send it to yourself), then read it a week later. I guarantee you will find things you are not happy with and will want to make more changes.

Justino said, "Once you've mastered writing, you don't need a consultant." I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any real writer that believes they've mastered writing, no matter what success they've had - Oscars, Pulitzers, whatever. With every new project, there are new problems and challenges to overcome - it's the nature of writing.

So, Justino, if you find a writer who believes he/she's has mastered writing, please contact me. I'd like to read their work - at least everything they written since they mastered the craft.

[preyer]

am i wrong in assuming that finding that consultant with his thumb on the heartbeat of 'what's going on' and 'is hooked up' is probably out of my price range, and even then is no guarantee your work will be better received? or will by paying the high price of a proven consultant get my script looked at before most others? on your cover page or query do you put that high-priced, respected name next to your own? if i paid gonnabefamous a thousand bucks to tweak my script, is that something i want to mention at all?

i think my problem with actually paying someone to suggest things is that i feel i'm fairly competent at telling a story (competent, not *accomplished*). the person i'd be paying is hopefully more competent at suggesting and correcting things than i am. in the back of my mind, though, i have to wonder if this guy is taking my money based on the fact he may have just got damn lucky once or twice, and that in all reality he's really no better at telling a story than i am. it being so subjective, as mentioned, how do i know i'm getting my money's worth? i'm not trying to sound egotistical, just that we've all watched a terrible movie and know we could do better than that. some know it, some think it.

JC, since you're a consultant, has there ever been a script you've come across where you say, 'honestly, i don't think it can be better than it already is. i still have to charge you for reading it, but it's otherwise tight'? do you find the majority of your corrections being format related or there being problems with the story? on the flip-side, do you find things that are so insipid you say, 'you know, i could work on this for a year and take a whole lot of money for you, but in the end it's still going to be a steaming pile'? what do script consultants correct the most?

maybe a lot of us have the impression that since scripts can get changed so much anyway, what's the point of paying someone if you're already confident enough in the story? is any consultant worth considering if they've got *any* credentials at all?

[Chesher Cat]

am i wrong in assuming that finding that consultant with his thumb on the heartbeat of 'what's going on' and 'is hooked up' is probably out of my price range, and even then is no guarantee your work will be better received? or will by paying the high price of a proven consultant get my script looked at before most others? on your cover page or query do you put that high-priced, respected name next to your own? if i paid gonnabefamous a thousand bucks to tweak my script, is that something i want to mention at all?

maybe a lot of us have the impression that since scripts can get changed so much anyway, what's the point of paying someone if you're already confident enough in the story? is any consultant worth considering if they've got *any* credentials at all?

I've never hired a consultant, but the only time I would is if they came highly recommended by a screenwriter I know who has used trhem and made lots of sales. I wouldn't trust a consultant who claims to know 'what's going on' because no one does. By the time your work hits the screen it will be something different than what's happening today. And there are lots of resources to find out what's selling now. Also, I've never heard of consultants hooking people up because they helped with your script. But maybe they do.

And no matter how good you think your story/script is, there's always room for improvement. You should always get other people to read it. I'm lucky to have writer friends who are higher on the totem pole than I am who are nice enough to give an honest opinion. Also, I'm in a writer's group - also free. Also, you also might try putting a notice up at a local acting school and get some actors to do a table read for you. It's good experience for them and you will hear what doesn't work as well as get comments.

When you decide the paid consultant is useful, I wonder if it's appropriate to ask what they've worked on that has been optioned, sold and/or produced. Joe?

I would definitely never put a consultants name anywhere - it's nobody's business who helps you.

Since this is the "easiest way to get an agent" thread, I'd think a recommendation from a fellow writer to their agent would be the easiest and best way to get one.

[Optimus]

I like www.bartgold.com (http://www.bartgold.com/)

I've only used him once, when I was starting a rewrite that needed to go out.

Sold writer. Solid advice. Great notes.

If I ever consider a consultant again, I'll probably go with him.

[preyer]

right, get another opinion on your stuff. not suggesting you trust in yourself 100% all the time, just that opinions are free. you're really paying for a 'professional' opinion and corrections to format, etc.. still, it doesn't take a highly trained individual to tell you something that makes sense to you has them clueless. from what i gather, a consultant will as-a-matter-of-course pick up on that, and *that's* the kind of stuff you're paying for, someone that catches and advises what a non-professional might miss. critical advise, well, if critics knew how to write a great script (or at least a sellable one) they'd all be doing it instead of working for the local rag doing movie reviews, eh?

will i ever use one? depends. if i get enough feedback that suggests i need a lot of help, probably. if fifty people can't find but one minour point, probably not. i'd be most inclined to use one for a rewrite, not right away. in that case what i'd be saying is, 'in your professional experience, what do they want here that i'm not seeing?'

it's completely appropriate to ask a consultant what their qualifications/credentials are. they're essentially your temporary employee (sorta), after all, and you wouldn't hire anyone without having them fill out an application, no? i wouldn't hire just anyone who claims to be a baker to make my wedding cake unless i saw some pictures of their work any more than i'd get an original tattoo without first seeing a portfolio of previous work.

back on topic, is it impossible to get a quality agent simply by being, you know, a good writer? or is that a pipe-dream?

[Joe Calabrese]

JC, since you're a consultant, has there ever been a script you've come across where you say, 'honestly, i don't think it can be better than it already is. i still have to charge you for reading it, but it's otherwise tight'? do you find the majority of your corrections being format related or there being problems with the story? on the flip-side, do you find things that are so insipid you say, 'you know, i could work on this for a year and take a whole lot of money for you, but in the end it's still going to be a steaming pile'? what do script consultants correct the most?No.

Many writers misunderstand the role of a consultant. We are not here to fix your script or make it a success. We are here as an extra set of informed eyes (ones that have seen all sort of things before) to point of potential problems based on industry expectations and past films AND make you lok at your script in a way you may have not thought of before. Even the best writers are too close to the trees to see the forest, they need that objective third party to see if anything could be better or even different, a difference that may make it more marketable or appeal to a specific audience that otherwise wouldn't have. Of course you don't have to agree and change things because I say so, but if you see it and agree too after I mention it, you should. I have read scripts that were damn good, perhaps great, but could use some tweaking or better direction. I have also read scripts that were awful and I would never expect to get sold in a millions years, but I can still advise to how to make it better, but then again, Gigli got made despite its script.

The most common problems I have found in the hundred or so scripts I've critiqued are (not in any order);

Bad Formatting
Incorrect Tone for Genre.
Pacing and beats out of place.
Over written dialog and action.
Logic problems
Set up vs. Payoff.

[preyer]

ah, i see.

just curious, do some people get upset when you correct them on so many things? i imagine there's got to be one guy out there who doesn't expect many changes, then gets his script back and it's full of suggestions.

[Optimus]

I'm not a paid consultant, but have given notes to more than several aspiring screenwriters, and can say with confidence that there are some writers out there who just want you to kiss their a$$ and call it ice cream.

They already know in their head that what they've written is the greatest story ever put to paper and is surely going to be a blockbuster and Academy Award winner, so they absolutely refuse to listen to anything you say.

Granted, the number of people I've personally encountered like this is small, but I know there are many of them out there. I have several people who send me their scripts and rewrites regularly for notes, because they know I tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.

For the rest of those people out there who have zero talent and refuse to accept it, I say keep on trucking. Their worthless crap only makes my scripts look better, which makes them even less competition for me.

[JustinoXXV]

No.

Many writers misunderstand the role of a consultant. We are not here to fix your script or make it a success. We are here as an extra set of informed eyes (ones that have seen all sort of things before) to point of potential problems based on industry expectations and past films AND make you lok at your script in a way you may have not thought of before. Even the best writers are too close to the trees to see the forest, they need that objective third party to see if anything could be better or even different, a difference that may make it more marketable or appeal to a specific audience that otherwise wouldn't have. Of course you don't have to agree and change things because I say so, but if you see it and agree too after I mention it, you should. I have read scripts that were damn good, perhaps great, but could use some tweaking or better direction. I have also read scripts that were awful and I would never expect to get sold in a millions years, but I can still advise to how to make it better, but then again, Gigli got made despite its script.

The most common problems I have found in the hundred or so scripts I've critiqued are (not in any order);

Bad Formatting
Incorrect Tone for Genre.
Pacing and beats out of place.
Over written dialog and action.
Logic problems
Set up vs. Payoff.

And thanks for pointing out the actual role of a legitimate consultant. There are scammers who make wild claims and promises (such as they can make someone's work a success).

I used consultants, when I got told from people who read my scripts that my major issues were some structural errors and bad dialouge. All of the consultants I used majorly helped me (including the unobjective one I complained about).

My criticism of consultants were really in response to what Nikee said. I perhaps misunderstood her. I thought she was saying that one shouldn't send out one's work without approval of consultants. Basically, their job is to point out how scripts can be made better. Some consultants do claim that they can do referrals on your behalf, but that isn't really their main job and one shouldn't see a consultant for that.

As for consultants being more knowledgable on what industry trends are, that isn't necessarily the case. And again, that isn't why you should see them. Their best role the one Joe explained above.

[odocoileus]

The easiest way to get an agent?

Become her oxycontin dealer. When she starts fiending, hold out until she options all your scripts.

[Optimus]

Sweet.

[preyer]

http://people.delphiforums.com/uhuru1701/images/00saddam.JPG

this is the real answer, isn't it?

[Joe Calabrese]

I got to admit, Saddam's credentials are better than most consultants, maybe even better than mine-- especially for war, espionage and action scripts.

Funny. Loved it.

[Enigma]

We've used consultants several times over the years, on various projects. When they come in to make their presentations (and pick up their check), they understand the rule:

"... You will be given no more than two minutes to stroke us," the;y're told. "To tell us how great we are, how professional, how this and that. Two minutes and one second after you first open your mouth, you'd better get down to what we're paying you for, to tell us how to improve it, tell us what's wrong with it, and how to fix it, or we'll throw your *** out the door or the window, whichever is closest.

A consultant had better not try to be your friend, rather your worst nightmare - or he isn't doing his job.

[Enigma]

We've used consultants several times over the years, on various projects. When they come in to make their presentations (and pick up their check), they understand the rule:

"... You will be given no more than two minutes to stroke us," the;y're told. "To tell us how great we are, how professional, how this and that. Two minutes and one second after you first open your mouth, you'd better get down to what we're paying you for, to tell us how to improve it, tell us what's wrong with it, and how to fix it, or we'll throw your *** out the door or the window, whichever is closest.

A consultant had better not try to be your friend, rather your worst nightmare - or he isn't doing his job.

Put the deleted word back in there! This subject irritates me.

[Joe Calabrese]

Okay, let's calm ourselves, or I will be forced to delete the posts.

Back to work everyone. Nothing to see here.

[Joe Calabrese]

We all know (or assume) Joe doesn't wear lace on his drawers but it's going to be interesting to see how he gets out of this one. Like this.

[Enigma]

Like this.

Well, guys. It looks like Joe took his football and went home. See y'all at the game Saturday. BTW, who's playing?