Controversy Sells

PoMoTy · Apr 17, 2010

controversy |ˈkäntrəˌvərsē|
noun ( pl. -sies)
disagreement, typically when prolonged, public, and heated : security laws passed to tackle terrorism caused controversy | the announcement ended a protracted controversy.

Why is this? Why does controversy in media sell so well?

Whether it's "Jersey Shore", Howard Stern, Passion of the Christ, Michael Moore, Da Vinci Code...

If it's controversial it tends to sell and make money.

Is this because of all the free press?

Or is it because we all love "disagreement, typically when prolonged, public, and heated"? Is there something about us that likes the hot debate, and want to join/buy in?

In the age of slashed marketing budgets in Hollywood, is controversy the new way to market and sell media products? And if so, what does this mean for us?

Jamesaritchie · Apr 17, 2010

It's because we hold strong opinions on such matters. They matter to us. They usually matter enough to fight over, and even to die over.

There's nothing new about it. Controversy, meaning any topic where two sides hold opposing but equally strong beliefs, has been a money maker since the dawn of time.

leahzero · Apr 17, 2010

I don't think it's because they "matter" to us. I find most "controversial" topics/persons/works inane and irrelevant, including the examples in the OP.

What is appealing to me is the trainwreck factor: it's such a mess that you can't help but stare. You have a lewd interest in seeing idiots and their idiocies duke it out.

mario_c · Apr 17, 2010

I'm happy when art stirs strong debate. It's a far cry from the "rules / sucks" consensus that works released with the approval of focus groups and marketing firms and a complete financial analysis receives. People enjoy a little entertainment, but they remember a passionate response. And people need their worldview poked and tested...but that's a subject for P&CE.

I'm happy to say I offended a critiquer with my script

They approved of the plot and characters and dialogue, but were shocked that I would waste my "talent" on such "trash". And I put a production note saying not to read it if you're offended by strong sexual material - some people apparently seek a fight in these kind of situations. I have nothing against them personally, I'm just saying - people like that are gonna make me rich!

Mac H. · Apr 17, 2010

Controversy CAN sell.

But it can also flunk.

And just because something had some controversy and was successful doesn't mean that the controversy had anything to do with the success. eg: The people seeing 'Passion of the Christ' didn't watch it because they disagreed with the contents ! To make it even clearer - there have been dozens of films made in the last decade about that main character. This one was championed by a Hollywood star and was successful. The others weren't. So why would its success have anything to do with the subject matter?

When you are a publicist you'll latch onto anything you can to drum up publicity. For example, the guys generating publicity for 'Kick Ass' got the local press to give it free publicity by writing articles about how it is unsuitable for children.

So you could argue that by writing something controversial you'll give the publicist an easier job in a few years time.

But controversy is also the last refuge of the stupid. I've seen small films which, to be kind, were utterly inane.

The film maker, though, was convinced that it was a sure fire winner - because it was 'controversial' !!

---

On a more direct note - I gather from previous threads that you believe your current project is 'controversial'.

Dude - it isn't . It might be a great script. I don't know.

But from your descriptions here, there is nothing controversial about it.

Asking for feedback and then arguing that people they are wrong when they give you the feedback you asked for isn't 'being controversial'. The fact that people disagree with you isn't evidence that the project is controversial.

Sorry.

Mac

WMcQuaig · Apr 18, 2010

I have to agree with Mac H. The thing about controversy is that it either works perfectly to the projects advantage or it kills the project.

It is a very fine line to walk if you want to try using "controversy" as a selling tool. I think that if your solely basing your project on controversy then it's not going to do very well.

Some of the more controversial things I have seen are borderline offensive. At that point your appealing to a limited crowd. Those who don't find it offensive are going to "praise it" as being controversial; those who find it offensive are not are going to endorse it.

I think when controversy is kept within the realm of the original idea/concept it *can* be very good for publicity, it's after it crosses that line that it's going to begin to hurt the project.

aadams73 · Apr 18, 2010

PoMoTy said:
Why is this? Why does controversy in media sell so well?

Or is it because we all love "disagreement, typically when prolonged, public, and heated"? Is there something about us that likes the hot debate, and want to join/buy in?

It's two things inherent to human nature: people are voyeurs and they want to feel important.

When something explodes in the media and sides are drawn, people immediately flock to the scene and ogle the train wreck. They eat up other people's misery and drama and excitement.

It's all about the conflict. Personal conflict can be uncomfortable as hell, but someone else's conflict? People can sit back and watch that unfold and feel the excitement without it having any effect on their own lives.

And when they do break that wall and toss out an opinion about the latest controversy, they're both safe (because it's not their conflict) and they get to be heard at the same time. The latter gives them a momentary self-importance boost. They're part of something bigger without being part of it at all.

People love other people's conflict. It's part of why we read stories, watch movies and gobble up the latest media controversy.

Lady Ice · Apr 18, 2010

Because we all want to get in on the debate- at least, that's the idea. If you write something that is just sick but dull...

PoMoTy · Apr 18, 2010

My favorite kind of controversy is the intellectual kind.

Historical, Religious, and Scientific

It's also the most lucrative because it effects everyone, and touches the core of our beliefs and world views; stirring us, making us think about about and look at what we hold and place on the throne of truth.

I can't get enough of it and neither can millions of other people world wide. The hot debate is stimulating and interesting.

Mac H. said:
But controversy is also the last refuge of the stupid. I've seen small films which, to be kind, were utterly inane.

You're thinking of stupid controversy, the Jersey Shore, Howard Stern kind. There is nothing stupid about intellectual controversy; when you understand it.

Mac H. said:
On a more direct note - I gather from previous threads that you believe your current project is 'controversial'.

Dude - it isn't . It might be a great script. I don't know.

But from your descriptions here, there is nothing controversial about it.

Can you elaborate on this Mac? What is it that I said was controversial that you think is not?

Mac H. · Apr 18, 2010

PoMoTy said:
Can you elaborate on this Mac? What is it that I said was controversial that you think is not?

As I mentioned, it is just an impression - however your thread pitching "Pharaoh" (Part 1 of a Trilogy) has this to say:

Logline: The worlds most powerful secret society creates a clone of a pharaoh to save the world from being taken over by artificial intelligence.

..

You know how they say controversy sells? They are right, it does.

This story takes the "Holy Blood" idea to new levels and new places. Places that will blow the mind, and maybe rock the foundations of common thought?

That quote (and the entire thread!) gave the impression that you thought that the project was controversial.

Mac

veinglory · Apr 18, 2010

I think controversy draws attention. To sell the work still generally has to have some quality and substance.

nmstevens · Apr 18, 2010

veinglory said:
I think controversy draws attention. To sell the work still generally has to have some quality and substance.

The way in which controversy sells a movie is by making the *movie itself* so much a subject of universal discussion and debate that it becomes almost necessary, in order to become a part of that general discussion, for you to go and see the movie.

That is, if everybody around the water cooler is talking about "X" -- whatever X is, then you want to be able to join in that discussion. If X happens to be a movie, or a TV show, or a book, or something that's happened in the news, then you want to be able to participate in that discussion by having seen it or read, or read about it.

So if there's a big controversy about "Movie X" -- then it almost doesn't matter what your position is on the underlying issue, or even if you care about it -- what matters is that the movie has created enough buzz to make it a topic of general conversation and everybody wants to participate, as a rule, in those kinds of conversations.

And that means, if you want to be able to do that -- you've got to go see the movie.

But that's true even in respect to books and TV shows and movies that aren't particularly controversial.

Or, for that matter, big sporting events.

When X is playing Y in the play-offs or the world series, or whatever it is -- I doubt, as a rule, that it's particularly controversial, but it always seems as though everybody is talking about it.

Except me, because I couldn't care less about sports. I never know who's playing, or when, or what teams are playing or who won and I don't care.

So when ever everybody is getting together and having those big discussions about this team, that team, this player, that player -- I'm out. No opinion. Don't know. Don't care.

But most people want to be plugged into these things. If the topic is Passion of the Christ -- or Blair Witch Project, or Titanic -- or whatever it is.

Whether one is "controversial" because of this issue or that issue is much less the point than that marketing has made the watching of the movie a requirement in order to be able to participate in a public conversation of which the movie itself is a part.

NMS

elppirc0 · Apr 18, 2010

The projects that are controversial, usually aren’t intended to be. You can generally tell when a film is trying to be controversial.

A perfect example of this is a movie called “Donkey Punch”, which was a contrived effort to be controversial and offensive. I didn’t find it to be either of those things, it was just a bad movie.

There’s another movie coming out soon called “The Human Centipede”, that’s trying to use controversy to sell. From it’s trailer you can tell two things: It isn’t controversial and its probably stupid.

Controversy doesn’t always sell because many people have come to equate controversy to bad movies.

Cyia · Apr 18, 2010

Real controversy usually comes from a place of conviction. Someone says, does, or creates something they actually believe in and are willing to stand behind and others find themselves on the opposite side of that position. (That's why religion is usually seen as "contoversial".)

Re-animating a Pharaoh isn't controversial. Secret societies aren't controversial anymore. Da Vinci involved in anything conspiracy related isn't controversial anymore. The idea that the pyramids are more than tombs hasn't been controversial for a while. The idea that AI will take over the world hasn't been news since SkyNet.

That's why the idea isn't controversial. It's been done. It's been talked about. People no longer care unless you can find a new angle, and so far you haven't given any indication that that's the case here.

PoMoTy · Apr 18, 2010

So Mac:

You don't think there is anything controversial about 'Holy Blood'?

To me that's pretty ignorant, because it is one of the most controversial topics there is. Millions of books, hundreds of films and countless lectures and talks. Just because you have no interest -- it doesn't stir debate and questions in your mind -- doesn't mean it doesn't in others. I assure you it does. The numbers do not lie, they grow.

If Holy Blood exists, where did it come from? Why is it Holy? What does it mean to be Holy? Can it be tested? Science and the Church weigh in...

>> Controversy <<

I think you and Cyia fail to grasp the depth here.

Let's say someone proposes that the Sphinx is actually over 10,000 years old, over 6,000 years older than the Academically accepted age. That's pretty controversial...

Why?

Because it means the entire history of humanity has to be rewritten. It means dramatic change to the Academic Institutions of the world. It means the current experts and opinions are wrong and it mean Egyptology must be re-imagined.

It creates: "disagreement, typically prolonged, public, and heated"

You know what else does that?

Cloning

Aliens

Nano-technology

Holy Blood

Eternal Life

Global Supercomputers

Secret Societies

...just to name just a few.

These are some of the most controversial topics out there. If you don't see that, then we are not living in the same world. Or you are just far removed from the actual debates.

Cyia said:
Real controversy usually comes from a place of conviction. Someone says, does, or creates something they actually believe in and are willing to stand behind and others find themselves on the opposite side of that position. (That's why religion is usually seen as "contoversial".)

I don't think Dan Brown actually believed an Albino Monk from 'Opis Dei really wanted to kill a woman who was descended from Jesus.

I don't think Dan Brown held convictions that a secret illuminati wanted to blow up the Vatican with anti-matter.

I think Dan Brown wanted to write books that he thought would be interesting and that would sell.

That's what I want to do as well.

Cyia said:
Re-animating a Pharaoh isn't controversial. Secret societies aren't controversial anymore. Da Vinci involved in anything conspiracy related isn't controversial anymore. The idea that the pyramids are more than tombs hasn't been controversial for a while. The idea that AI will take over the world hasn't been news since SkyNet.

For it to not be controversial it would need to be settled. The debate over.

Again I don't think we are living in the same world, because the heat of the debates has never been hotter.

If they take DNA from a 4000 year old Pharaoh mummy and clone it... I think that would be INCREDIBLY controversial, and I am not willing to into all the reasons why.

The controversy that the pyramids aren't tombs has never gone away... the heated debate continues and it gets hotter and hotter by the day, because of the implications. Hundreds of films and TV shows have played on this.

Cyia said:
That's why the idea isn't controversial. It's been done. It's been talked about. People no longer care unless you can find a new angle, and so far you haven't given any indication that that's the case here.

It is my belief that YOU no longer care Cyia, and that's perfectly fine. Lot's of people don't, and so this film would not be for them. That's normal.

But if you think that hundreds of millions of people all over the world, who read, study and dedicate their lives to inquiry of human history and civilization, don't care or have a stake in the raging debate, then you are dead wrong. If you think they don't buy books and see movies, you are also DEAD WRONG. The numbers say they do, and the numbers are not up for debate.

In America, we can believe whatever we want to believe, it's our right. But I didn't write a film to tell anyone what to believe, or to express any of my convictions. I wrote a film that I would want to go see, and that I know millions of other people with similar interests would want to see. A film that naturally taps/draws into controversial topics -- a la 'Da Vinci Code' -- that is intellectually stimulating, fun, and engaging.

So what's my new angle?

It's called: Pharaoh

BenPanced · Apr 18, 2010

Mac H. · Apr 19, 2010

Let's say someone proposes that the Sphinx is actually over 10,000 years old, over 6,000 years older than the Academically accepted age. That's pretty controversial...

....

It creates: "disagreement, typically prolonged, public, and heated"

You know what else does that?

Cloning

Aliens

Nano-technology

Holy Blood

Eternal Life

Global Supercomputers

Secret Societies

All of these elements are in the Stargate TV series. (Yes - even Holy Blood)

Ergo - your project is as controversial as Stargate.

Don't get me wrong - I love Stargate. It's a great show. But I wouldn't use the phrase 'controversial' to describe it. I understand you would. It's clear that we have different logic here.

So I'm giving up on this conversation now.

It's clear I'm never going to be able to communicate effectively with you.

Good luck with your projects - I hope they do well.

Mac
(I'll resist the temptation to communicate again)

8thSamurai · Apr 19, 2010

Controversy attempted on purpose (aka obvious) tends to blow up in the creator's face.

Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh are exactly the same - entertainers who take a strong political stance to keep listeners. If they had nothing inflammatory to say, they'd be no more well known than any other morning DJ.

Sorry, your idea is plenty goofy, but controversial? No. And no matter how much you want it to be - you lack the 'taking a strong stance on a hot topic'. None of the topics you mentioned have been news for a long time, if ever. Fun topics for fiction (some of them), many used often enough to be considered tropes, but controversy?

'That word...I do not think it means what you think it means.'

Cyia · Apr 19, 2010

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're very young.

What you're missing here is that Dan Brown ISN'T what made the book controversial. He didn't write it to be controversial. If he had, his career would have started with the Da Vinci Code - it didn't. DVC wasn't even the first book in that particular series.

Of course he didn't believe it was true. He wrote a novel - as in fiction - that fit into his already established fictional universe. The book shouldn't have had any more impact than the first installment, but it was the convictions of others that made it controversial because that universe is at odds with something held sacred.

The creator can't make something controversial anymore than he/she can make something popular. That's for the consumers to decide. And, considering the number of "cloned Jesus" stories I've heard/seen, cloning a Pharaoh won't even come close.

It might make a nice twist on The Mummy, though.

Now I'm going to go hide with Mac and wait for Clockwork to put this thread out of its misery before someone drags out the well beaten horse carcasses.

Captcha · Apr 19, 2010

Hey, you know that rule of writing - 'show, don't tell'?

I think it's time to show us that we're wrong, because the telling REALLY isn't working. Go write the script. I can't see how the elements you've mentioned are controversial or interesting enough to make me want to watch a show on TV, let alone shell out $10 to see a movie, but if you add some great characters and a good plot, I could be sucked in. Then when it's a blockbuster, come back and rub our faces in it.

It seems like maybe you've found that the writing part is hard, and you'd rather stay in that first glow of discovery and wonder over a new idea. But you've come here for feedback on the idea, you've gotten it, and you're not listening. I don't think I've seen more homogeneity of response than what I've seen in your two posts on this subject, so I think you should take the criticisms seriously. It's easier to 'argue' (quotation marks because I don't think that endlessly repeating your original point really counts as making an argument) than it is to really engage with the feedback and put the work into making your idea better. It's understandable that you're taking the easy way, but it's not exactly productive.

Exir · Apr 19, 2010

If the layperson needs to be given a history lesson and a long speech, then it isn't controversial.

Controversy (the ones that enter the collective consciousness and have mass appeal) are sound bites. Pretty Baby with Brooke Shields was pretty controversial in its time. It was simple: "GASP! 11-year-old child actress does nude scene! Plays underage prostitute!"

You could say it in one breath.

Try explaining Holy Blood and its controversy in that many words. I don't even know what it is.

Lady Ice · Apr 19, 2010

Exactly. I doubt that Egyptology is a roaring debate outside of academic circles. Controversy relies on challenging information we already believe to be correct, something we have a strong opinion on.

BenPanced · Apr 19, 2010

Cyia said:
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're very young.

What you're missing here is that Dan Brown ISN'T what made the book controversial. He didn't write it to be controversial. If he had, his career would have started with the Da Vinci Code - it didn't. DVC wasn't even the first book in that particular series.

Of course he didn't believe it was true. He wrote a novel - as in fiction - that fit into his already established fictional universe. The book shouldn't have had any more impact than the first installment, but it was the convictions of others that made it controversial because that universe is at odds with something held sacred.

The creator can't make something controversial anymore than he/she can make something popular. That's for the consumers to decide. And, considering the number of "cloned Jesus" stories I've heard/seen, cloning a Pharaoh won't even come close.

It might make a nice twist on The Mummy, though.

Now I'm going to go hide with Mac and wait for Clockwork to put this thread out of its misery before someone drags out the well beaten horse carcasses.

PoMoTy · Apr 19, 2010

8thSamurai said:
'That word...I do not think it means what you think it means.'

Princess Bride is one of my favorite movies!

It's funny you said this, because when I started to write the original post of this thread I thought to my self "what does controversy really mean?"

So I looked it up -- I always do my research -- and started the thread with the actual definition of the word.

If you don't think that's what the word means... that's a controversial stance!

As for the rest of the posts, no one is disputing that controversy sells. All the sited works creators Stargate and Dan Brown knew exactly what I am talking about. THEY SOLD. THEY PLAYED ON CONTROVERSY. THEY MADE MONEY. THAT'S THE POINT.

If you want to throw stones and run away, it's fine because I'm not in a glass house, and thus far what was thrown has no actual weight or substance. In fact all of it is argumentum ad hominem, and to me comes off childish, simplistic, and ill informed.

Mac and Cyia do not know me and know virtually nothing about my script; and appear to know almost nothing about the topics of controversy aforementioned. Therefore there is no point in engaging/debating something with someone who doesn't understand the topic/issues.

Detractors come with the territory, the more fans and liked you get, the more haters you get as well. It's just part of the game -- just ask Dan Brown. You can even judge your success by how much you are disliked (they tend to be more vocal). There is no such thing as bad publicity and disliked = known.

The facts remain undisputed. Controversy sells.

CONTROVERSY IS USED TO SELL PROJECTS

I write what I like and what interests me, and if it's controversial, and that can help it sell, I'll can use that to my advantage. If you don't think it's controversial, that's fine too! To each their own!

Write on!

Celia Cyanide · Apr 19, 2010

So what did you really want to ask when you started this thread?

Controversy Sells

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What happened?

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