a never-been-published work?

pixiejuice · Apr 16, 2010

So, I write this serialized story, published myself in a blog, with a modest following. It's illustrated with my Sims game, but the stories and characters are completely original and all my own. This is done for fun (meaning not for profit rather than for lack of quality), for the pure joy of storytelling, and I consider it sort of my open fiction journal.

I was inspired recently to take a couple of these characters and a storyline, from my blog, and rewrite it into a traditional mainstream/literary short story, and it turned out quite nicely. But what I'm wondering then, is that most literary journals and magazines want to publish brand new work, and I'm wondering if this would qualify as having been previously published (by myself, in my blog)?

In just the process of rewriting from serialized format to short story, and from illustrated to full text, the stories are barely recognizable as having come from the same place. But in truth, while each story is unique, they are the same characters and they share the same conflict, and perhaps I might like to steal a good line or two from one to the next.

To what extent am I allowed to do this? Do I need to change the character names or anything else to disguise the story?

Sorry to just drop in and unload a question like this, but this is burning a hole in my brain! I used to post on here a long time ago, but haven't been around for a while.

Lost World · Apr 17, 2010

Most e-zines don't want previously published material, but I don't think this qualifies. You can post a story on a blog and on all sorts of sites; that doesn't mean you're published. To me that involves an editor and a selection process.

I wouldn't worry about the fact that it has previously appeared in a blog. Chances are the editor you're sending it to won't know that. Don't tell him, erase the blog, and everything will be fine...ifit's a good story worth publishing.

stormie · Apr 17, 2010

Lost World said:
You can post a story on a blog and on all sorts of sites; that doesn't mean you're published. To me that involves an editor and a selection process.

No, editors do consider a story posted on a blog to be published.

I wouldn't worry about the fact that it has previously appeared in a blog. Chances are the editor you're sending it to won't know that. Don't tell him, erase the blog, and everything will be fine...ifit's a good story worth publishing.

Yes, there is something called "waybackmachine" which is a search engine for archived material. Sure, chances are that editors might not research it, but what writer wants to chance that?

To the OP, you may change the story a lot, and characters and title, then submit it for first rights.

pixiejuice · Apr 17, 2010

Thank you for the replies!

Lost World, it really wouldn't be worth deleting the blog over. It *is* a good story, but I'd rather go the revision route, for less trouble. This blog is a beloved pet project of mine, and very dear to myself and a few dozen other people.

stormie, I agree - I have also heard that this negates first rights. I just never thought about trying to turn one of my blog stories into an actual publishable story before recently.

So to submit the story for first rights, how different would it have to be? These particular plot elements and the characters involved are really what makes the story tick. (I guess then, I shouldn't post it on the blog, huh?)

I haven't actually posted this particular story yet, and was about days from doing so.

So then an off-shoot question, if I might: if I were to choose not to post this particular story in the blog, and never post it there (I can probably manage to drive the blog story in a different direction), is the story safe then? Even though the characters and their histories still exist in that public blog story?

Or do I still need to change the character names?

stormie · Apr 17, 2010

pixiejuice said:
So then an off-shoot question, if I might: if I were to choose not to post this particular story in the blog, and never post it there (I can probably manage to drive the blog story in a different direction), is the story safe then? Even though the characters and their histories still exist in that public blog story?

Or do I still need to change the character names?

You'd be okay then. It's another story. No need to change names of characters.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 17, 2010

You just have to be honest about a story's history. Always. Tell the editor the history, and after that it's up to him to decide whether or not he wants it.

pixiejuice · Apr 17, 2010

stormie said:
You'd be okay then. It's another story. No need to change names of characters.

Thanks, that sounds like a good way to go then. I can always link to the story if/when it's published and my readers can read it that way - or that's the optimistic way of looking at it, I suppose.

Jamesaritchie said:
You just have to be honest about a story's history. Always. Tell the editor the history, and after that it's up to him to decide whether or not he wants it.

Would you still advise to tell the editor, even if the story wasn't ever posted on the blog, but I still used the characters? (They're not even main characters in the blog story, really, if that makes a difference.) Is this something an editor would tend to look down on?

Jamesaritchie · Apr 18, 2010

pixiejuice said:
Would you still advise to tell the editor, even if the story wasn't ever posted on the blog, but I still used the characters? (They're not even main characters in the blog story, really, if that makes a difference.) Is this something an editor would tend to look down on?

No, with that in mind, I think silence is the best answer.

Lost World · Apr 18, 2010

stormie said:
No, editors do consider a story posted on a blog to be published.

Interesting, though I have to question why. Wouldn't a blog fall along the lines of a self-published work? The last time I checked such efforts did not stand as legitimate publishing credits--an editor will laugh at you if you claim them as such, and thusly consign your work to the recycle bin. Why would a blog entry be any different?

johnnysannie · Apr 19, 2010

Most editors don't want to pay for something that has already been out, whether it's on a blog or in a publication. So the general rule of thumb would be that it has been previously published. No editor wants readers to read a story and then say, "Oh, yes, I read this before."

When in doubt, ask.

Terie · Apr 19, 2010

johnnysannie said:
Most editors don't want to pay for something that has already been out, whether it's on a blog or in a publication. So the general rule of thumb would be that it has been previously published. No editor wants readers to read a story and then say, "Oh, yes, I read this before."

This. Or to put it another way, why would an editor pay money for something readers can get for free on the 'net? That's the reason not to post publically stories you write with the intention to sell. If you flog it and no one wants it, then you can post it out there for free. But not until you've exhausted all other markets and have decided not to try to sell it any more.

pixiejuice · Apr 19, 2010

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

blacbird · Apr 19, 2010

Lost World said:
Interesting, though I have to question why. Wouldn't a blog fall along the lines of a self-published work? The last time I checked such efforts did not stand as legitimate publishing credits

Wrong. There's a double-standard here. Self-published work counts as previously published in terms of being offered as "unpublished", with standard unpublished rights involved. It does not count as a publishing credit.

caw

Jamesaritchie · Apr 20, 2010

Lost World said:
Interesting, though I have to question why. Wouldn't a blog fall along the lines of a self-published work? The last time I checked such efforts did not stand as legitimate publishing credits--an editor will laugh at you if you claim them as such, and thusly consign your work to the recycle bin. Why would a blog entry be any different?

Legally, "published" means only that a work has been made accessible to the reading public. This is true if you post it on a blog, or if you print copies of it and hand the copies out door to door. Do anything that gives teh general public access to your work, and, legally speaking, it has been published.

It's not a publishing credit because there is no weed out process. This is important. A good credit means you had to beat out stiff competition in order to have your piece published. There is no competition when you self-publish, be it through a vanity press, or when you post something on your blog.

Robert E. Keller · Apr 20, 2010

And it doesn't mean a self-published story is inferior to one in a good market, it just means that it gets no respect because it hasn't passed any kind of test. I've read some stories that I consider terrible in top markets (yes, terrible), and I've read some that I consider excellent posted for free on blogs. But there has to be some way to measure progress, and the traditional publishing method is an effective way to do that. A good credit is a hard-fought badge of honor. And if you write short stories that don't match the styles of the major short fiction publishers (such as space westerns or something), well, it sucks to be you in that regard. However, you still can't use your blog-posted story as a legitimate credit. It may not be entirely fair (it bothers me that some of the stuff I write matches up with very few professional markets, such as classic or traditional fantasy, and may be very difficult to obtain a top credit with), but no system is perfect. I have the option of also writing in other styles, and so I do. My conclusion: It's a necessary double standard.

Dungeon Geek · Apr 25, 2010

Good discussion, folks!

a never-been-published work?

pixiejuice

Lost World

He'll NEVER fit in!

stormie

storm central

pixiejuice

stormie

storm central

Jamesaritchie

pixiejuice

Jamesaritchie

Lost World

He'll NEVER fit in!

johnnysannie

Terie

Writer is as Writer does

pixiejuice

blacbird

Jamesaritchie

Robert E. Keller

Likes heroic fantasy and hot coffee

Dungeon Geek

Science, for the sake of...science!