2+2=7

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Brukaviador

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I ran into a weird issue with some people that have read my fiction.

I have a vampire novel that is full of some pretty horrible things. Basically, the vampires are predators in every sense of the word; not just hunting people for food but using them and throwing them away for their own amusement. Also one of the victims is a girl that had been picked up off the streets. She was horribly neglected by her parents, abused a little bit too, and basically ran away looking for an escape but ended up under the thumb of one of these horrible predators. I allowed about ten or so people read it and everyone said they really enjoyed it. I wasn't even thinking about pursuing publication until my beta's told me I should, so I know it's a good story.

The problem is that two of them got kind of weird after reading it - a buddy and his wife. When it came time to pick up my manuscript again I got a whole series of excuses about having left it at home, or "I gave it to the wife to give to you", etc. She told me to meet her outside her place of work to pick it up one day, then just left me hanging but when I called later she had a ton of apologies and excuses. The first few times it happened I figured it was bad luck or bad timing but it kept going on for about a month or two and eventually I clued in that I was being jerked around. They seemed to be doing everything they possibly could to avoid giving my manuscript and their notes back without telling me why. When they began avoiding my phone calls I just wrote them off and moved on.

A couple months later he contacts me again and we went for lunch. We're hanging out and having a good time until I ask about my manuscript and he shuts down. I get a bunch of excuses again, then he goes back to avoiding me for another couple months before the cycle repeats. We hang out and have a good time, then I mention my writing and get the cold shoulder. It's obvious he still wanted to be buddies but the subject of my book appeared to be off limits.

My first guess was that they either didn't like it or had lost it the manuscript so I sent him an e-mail saying it's not a problem either way - not everybody has to like my writing, or if the manuscript got misplaced or mangled it's no big deal. I didn't want something dumb like that to get in the way of us being friends. I got no response; he goes back into avoidance mode and I haven't heard from him since.

So I don't know what to make of that, other than I may have weirded them out. He reads all kinds of terrifying and awful fiction but because it was something written by someone he knows, I think he may have jumped to a bunch of strange conclusions. Like writing a novel that has a killer in it means I have a latent desire to murder people or because I have a character that was an abused child then I must have been an abused child. The people that know me well understand the book is fiction and I even let someone who's never met me before read it to get the completely unbiased opinion and they loved it too, without getting weirded out. I think my buddy took some things he knows about me, plus some things he thinks he knows, and combined it with the ideas in my book to arrive at a whole bunch of outrageous conclusions that are making him and his wife feel awkward.

Basically I think he put two and two together, and got seven. Of course I can't ask him what's up because he was avoiding the subject like the plague and since I was persistent about it, he began avoiding me entirely. In my wordy and roundabout way, I was just wondering if anyone else had had anything similar happen to them; if anything you've written has weirded anyone out like that.
 
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dgiharris

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From the outside looking in, I would write him off as a friend.

He's a shitty friend. Seriously.

I would be beyond pissed if a friend treated me like that.

their behavior is inexcusable.


Mel...
 

Brukaviador

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From the outside looking in, I would write him off as a friend.

He's a shitty friend. Seriously.

I would be beyond pissed if a friend treated me like that.

their behavior is inexcusable.

Mel...

Yeah, I've definitely given him the boot by now. It just struck me as really strange behavior and I was wondering if anything like this happened to anyone else. That's all.
 

Zoombie

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I know that one of my friends told me again and again that I could never get a YA published that had sex in it. Cause...like, SEX?! In a YOUNG ADULT novel!? That's like...impossible!

So I showed him like...five novels in the young adult section of boarders that have graphic sex IN THE TITLE.

And then I went on to write a YA novel about a bisexual, polyamerous magical gendershifter.

HA!
 

shaldna

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It is a bit odd.
 

kaitie

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I dunno, my guess would be that if he thought it reflected on you as a person, he wouldn't be seeking you out to hang out still. That seems weird to me, and I think if that was the case he would have been probably avoiding you in general. Heck, probably would have given the MS back and said he liked it then you never would have heard from him again. Granted, I don't know the guy, and I suppose it's possible someone would do that.

I had a similar situation with my best friend when he didn't like the book and wouldn't read it. Then he felt guilty about not reading it and like he was being a bad friend, and for ages anytime I'd mention it he'd be sorta the same. Change the subject, not talk about whatever I'd said, whatever. He still does it sometimes, though not to the same extent.

My guess is that either the guy didn't like it or, like you said, screwed up the manuscript somehow. I'm really guessing the latter is the most likely since they kept avoiding giving it back. Even if you said it's okay, if he feels guilty about it that could be why he doesn't want to talk about it. Or he could have just not read it at all, or maybe he hated it and just doesn't want to admit it.

Something else that's possible is that maybe he's nervous about letting you see the notes. Did he write them on the manuscript itself? Did you ever mention what other people thought? I could also see a situation where he wrote notes and is self-conscious about them. Maybe just because he doesn't know what he was doing, or maybe you mentioned something someone else said that completely conflicts with the notes he put.

Anyway, my guess is mostly there's a problem with the manuscript and it was lost or the dog ate it or they threw it away on accident or something of that sort. It probably really isn't anything personal. Though if it were me, I would have written back by now and said outright, "Look, what's up? This is really frustrating and I'd prefer you just told me the truth about whatever's going on so we can move past it. If you hated it and never want me to talk about it again, that's cool, but just tell me that."

That's just me, though. ;)
 

Elizabeth Holloway

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I had a similar situation. I gave the first draft (I know, yikes) of a ms to a reader friend of mine. She seemed really excited to read it.

A week or two later I asked if she had read it and she said she hadn't had time. Then she started avoiding me. I work with her, so it was very obvious. I didn't mention it to her any more and let a month go by. She started to warm up again and I brought it up. She shut down and started avoiding me, again.

Finally, I asked for the ms back. By this time I had some great feedback from some awesome betas (who liked it, btw) and had totally reworked the novel. I told her no hard feelings. If she didn't like it, she didn't like it. My heart wasn't broken. She gave it back with an apology and the promise that she hadn't had time to read it, but when it gets published ('cause that's so easy, ya know) she wants a signed copy.

She still asks me how my writing is going, but she doesn't ask to read anything I write anymore. Now, I don't know if it was the semi-graphic attack on a teenage girl in the first chapter that threw her off, the fact it was a first draft or if she really didn't have time, but I won't bug her about it. And I'm not gonna take it personally.
 
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Namatu

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She gave it back with an apology and the promise that she hadn't had time to read it, but when it gets published ('cause that's so easy, ya know) she wants a signed copy.
I got a similar response recently. :rolleyes: Just say it's not your thing and move on. No need to make a big deal about it.

As far as friends/readers consistently treating you shoddily, they are not friends/readers. They are gone. Wave bye-bye. You deserve much better than someone who refuses to respond to direct questions, be honest with you, and get over whatever issue they have.
 

Dawnstorm

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Hmm, how well do you know them? Could any of them have been abused as children? Could the story be stirring up terrible memories? That might explain why they still seek contact (if your story shows you understand the issues) but can't bring themselves to talk about it (if they're not that comfortable with you [yet]).
 

CheyElizabeth

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Hmmmm what a weirdo.

I let 15 year olds read my books because that's their intended audience, and they always get back to me. Typically via facebook or text...

But yeah - maybe he was weirded out by the contents of your novel, or perhaps he never read it and is embarrassed by it? I've had friends dig through my writing trying to find 'themselves' as a character and I have to keep reminding them that I make up characters, I don't put real life friends in my books. I know it sounds off the wall, but do you have any characters that he could have thought was supposed to be him?

I think its immature to judge someone based on what happens in their novel. Its FICTION, I can't stress that enough. Regardless, nix him as a friend.
 

Brukaviador

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Hmm... some really good possibilities here that I haven't thought of.


I've had friends dig through my writing trying to find 'themselves' as a character and I have to keep reminding them that I make up characters, I don't put real life friends in my books. I know it sounds off the wall, but do you have any characters that he could have thought was supposed to be him?

I don't think so but it's an excellent point. I guess it's possible though. Who knows what kind of conclusions he jumped to?

I haven't had any other friends think that they were in the book but my father did think that I put myself in. He said for the first sixty pages or so he thought that one of my protagonists was me. I couldn't see why, and nobody else thought that, so I asked him about it. He said it was because the character had worked a whole series of really crappy jobs in his life and never really found his place in the world, and how it was similar to my life for a lot of years before I got a good IT job. My response was: "Yeah Dad, that's true, but it also describes everybody I've ever met in my entire life." I don't know anyone that hasn't had a crappy job at some point; that hasn't flipped burgers or stocked shelves or cut lawns. Whether they've been able to progress beyond that or not, everybody's done it.

That did kind of annoy me and it was that example of my father reading too much into the one character that made me wonder if perhaps this buddy was reading too much into other characters. I guess I'll never know for sure.
 

Polenth

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This comes across as a guilt thing to me. As a writer, you know writers get harsh feedback and all that... but your reader friend may not know that, and may think saying "I hated it" will be the end of the friendship. So he feels guilty and he's avoiding you.

About the worst thing to do is keep asking about it. Doing so makes it clear it's the most important thing in the world to you, which means the friend feels even more like he can't say "I hated it". You may have said in your email it was okay if he hated it, but that after months and months of asking about it... you've shown how important it is to you. Saying "I hated it" could really hurt you, from the friend's perspective.

I suspect if you carried on the friendship, and avoided mentioning it again for awhile, he'll settle down. He needs time to work through the guilt and realise you're not going to hate him for not liking it. You have to show your friendship doesn't depend on him liking your writing, and that might mean focusing on other things for awhile.

All the stuff about him hating you for the content doesn't sound likely. He'd have broken off all contact if he thought you were a psychopath.
 

Ruth2

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Dang. I must be weird. First thing I thought of is he took your manuscript, put his name on it and is now trying to get it pubbed with him as author.

See? I'm weird...
 

cscarlet

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Ooh ooh! Or he might have seen your MS as the next mega-hit and wants to keep it so one day he can sell it on eBay for MILLIONS of dollars!!! (nothing wrong with a little optimism, right? ;))
 

Brukaviador

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Dang. I must be weird. First thing I thought of is he took your manuscript, put his name on it and is now trying to get it pubbed with him as author.

See? I'm weird...

Not that weird. My paranoia drove me down that road and I ended up copyrighting my manuscript. I know it's going to make the legal paperwork a pain in the ass come the time to sell it to a publisher but I needed the peace of mind after he flaked out on me.


Ooh ooh! Or he might have seen your MS as the next mega-hit and wants to keep it so one day he can sell it on eBay for MILLIONS of dollars!!! (nothing wrong with a little optimism, right? ;))

Hmm... you're probably right. That just makes too much sense to ignore. Of course, he's got the crappy third draft. There have been five revisions since then.
 

Ugawa

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Dang. I must be weird. First thing I thought of is he took your manuscript, put his name on it and is now trying to get it pubbed with him as author.

See? I'm weird...


I thought exactly the same thing -- which was why I didn't post. lol

x
 

Kitty27

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Write him off. That isn't the business.

My long suffering brother reads all my insanity. He often asks if he should call the men in white coats.

Many times I've asked family to read my stuff and have received everything from"It's great" to "I don't read devil stuff".

Sometimes,what you write leads to people judging you. All this wondrous and admittedly deranged stuff comes from your mind,well,you might be dangerous!
 

Jcomp

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I think my buddy took some things he knows about me, plus some things he thinks he knows, and combined it with the ideas in my book to arrive at a whole bunch of outrageous conclusions that are making him and his wife feel awkward.

There's always the possibility that the spouse is getting in your friend's ear and influencing how he feels about you based on the manuscript as well. I've known my share of people whose wife or husband planted an ear-worm that influenced their behavior around longtime friends. Just a thought.
 

rsmccoy

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I don't ever ask non writer friends to read my stuff. It's not fair to them and odds are you won't get useable feedback. I have trusted beta readers that give me useable feedback and when the stories or novel comes out, I still don't push people I know to read my stuff. One of my best friends doesn't even enjoy reading. He may have picked up three books in the last 20 years. I accept him for who he is and he accepts me.
 

Celia Cyanide

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I don't ever ask non writer friends to read my stuff. It's not fair to them and odds are you won't get useable feedback.

I really agree with this. Even non-writers who like to read don't really understand drafts. They are used to reading polished, published work, and for them to read something that isn't finished, they don't get it. As writers, we can read an early draft and understand it, because we've had stuff in that stage before. A non-writer might read something like that and recognize that it isn't as good as a published work, but not understand why, and not know how to articulate it.

Having said that, I agree with those who have said that your friend treated you unfairly. No matter what happened--he lost the manuscript, he hated it, his wife things you're crazy, etc--he should at least be honest with you about it. Even if he was trying to spare your feelings, he went way too far with this.
 

PGK

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Like others said your friends could be fearing insulting you or any number of similar things, but my first thoughts were exactly what Ruth2 and cscarlet said. Some of my betas asked me to keep the copy so they could sell it later if it turned into a major success and I let them because let's face it . . . I aint no Clive Barker and even his original manuscripts really don't sell for that much.
Some people see Jesus in their toast and think money, others just eat it.
 

IDGS

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As many have said above, fiction is a melding of your own true experiences with lies twisting through it and holding it together.

You can't accurately write about something you don't know, so all of us incoroprate pieces of our lives and skew them to a greater extent. What often happens I find is that people jump to conclusions, thinking that there's no way in hell you could have written something so dark without having some serious goings-on in your past, or that the events portrayed are fictionalized accounts of true occurances.

I know for my manuscript, it involves a guy who's generally apathetic, borderline alcoholic, works in a bar, and has some pretty dark dealings surrounding him. On giving the first draft of the intro to my girlfriend to check out, she was almost appalled. Child molestation? Graphic murder? She was almost frightened that I tought of such things to a degree that I could work them into paper.

From that point on, she's read nothing of my work and has no desire to, and really; I'm okay with that.

Stephen King is often speculated to have had some very traumatic experiences in his childhood, such as his best friend being hit and killed by a train. Automatically, critics of his work point to this event as well as his chemical addictions as a cause of his creative thought-patterns, when really Stephen King has just said that he writes what he likes, and he likes dark shit.

I haven't had a bad life, I've had a great life. Yet, I can write about people in the depths of despair via empathy. I think as horror writers this is a stigma we're going to have to face if we ever expect to get published, but it still kinda sucks.
 

GeorgeK

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My somewhat paranoid side would wonder if he's submitting it as his own work, but then that's probably just being paranoid.
 

mellymel

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From the outside looking in, I would write him off as a friend.

He's a shitty friend. Seriously.

I would be beyond pissed if a friend treated me like that.

their behavior is inexcusable.


Mel...

ditto this and not only that, I might keep an eye out to make sure that nothing like this ends up on the shelves in the future. then you might have a real horror on your hands. sorry that happened. he sounds like a jerk and something definitely sounds fishy about it.
 
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