Panels Throwing me a curve

[Word Jedi]

I have dabbled in screenwriting.
After reading comics for more years than I'd care to admit, I decided to try writing a comic book script.
Everything was fine until I hit PANELS.
Writing a scene in screenplay format is one thing, but breaking a story down into panels on a page has become quite a challenge.
Anyone out there with some advice on how to think inside the boxes called panels?
How many per page? I know there should never really be more than 6.
Is there a rule of thumb on what a panel should focus on?
Any help with this would be, as always, greatly appreciated.
regards,
Mark

[sunandshadow]

Well, first thing to do is read some comics and look at what they are doing with panels. Numbers, shapes, flow between them, you have to study what other artists have done with it.

I'm far from an expert on it. About the only things I've learned are that small squarish panels are usually for a 'talking heads' panel, short wide panels are for establishing setting or motion within a setting, tall narrow panels are to show height, climbing, sometimes isolation, and big panels are for the beginning of a scene and the emotional and visual points of greatest intensity. I've also seen people say you can think of a page as being a 3x3 or 4x4 grid of rectangles, then build your panel shapes out of one or more of these rectangles, but be careful not to make all your panels rectangular.

[Satsya]

Yeah, like Sunandshadow says, study your favorite comics.

It is fantastic that you're worrying about good paneling, by the way. It's something way too many comic makers don't care about, but frankly, the paneling makes or breaks a story - it's the comic equivalent of the movie director position. You could have the best script in the world, but with bad paneling no one will ever take the time to care about your story. Flipside, great paneling can make every scene you ever write look like gold.

There's a real rhythm to good paneling. Study how scenes transition from one location to another, how characters are introduced to scenes, how different page layouts are between quiet moments and epic ones. Study how angles are used from panel to panel. There aren't too many hard and fast rules to paneling -- it varies some from author to author and genre to genre. It's really one of those things you just have to study and practice with until it comes naturally.

[Art_Sempai]

There's no set rule on panels.

It sort of depends on what your trying to do visually.
Frank Miller used sixteen panel layouts on a lot of pages in The Dark Knight Returns.

Understanding Comics does a great job of explaining it.

[RemusShepherd]

Understanding Comics does a great job of explaining it.

I want to second that, with emphasis. Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics is the most important book any comic writer/artist can read.

The essential nature of comic panels -- as McCloud says -- is that they are the tool by which the comic artist controls the flow of time in the comic. Long panels with not a lot happening in them feel as if they take up large spans of time. Short panels that have minimal changes feel like slow motion. Borderless panels that bleed out to the edge of the paper highlight important moments. There are many other tricks you can perform with panels. It's a whole new language of art, and it's what separates comics from written stories and from films.

If you can't find McCloud's books, read his webpages (http://scottmccloud.com/), and then experiment with panel design some. Note how the size and business of the panel change the pacing of the narrative. You'll get the hang of basic panel use quickly...although mastering it may take a lifetime.

[Axler]

Keep in mind that unlike screenwriting, breaking a story down into panels is a form of visual shorthand. Also, unlike a scene in a film script, you have to vary perspective, light/shadow values and be aware of the relationship of dialogue balloons with the art.

It wouldn't hurt to lay out the panels on a page yourself, using stick figures if nothing else.

I'll be teaching a class in writing graphic novels at this year's Cape Cod's Writer's Conference and I'll use this page (among others) by the great Jim Mooney as an example of how to make even a largely expository page seem interesting:

http://www.comicspace.com/markaxlerellis/uploaded/3269/1171507085_tzG35EYrh6.jpg

[small axe]

Scott McCloud definitely.
He's got a great one called "MAKING COMICS" too.

I read once that (according to one interpretation) each page should have a "main" panel (both visually and conceptually) -- and then the other panels lead up or follow that one sequentially/cinematically. Apparently that helps the "flow" -- it keeps everything going forward (because each page has a new, progressive concept it's working towards, advancing the story to) while allowing "sequence" per page (without the whole thing being TOO cinematic)

Unless it's a FIGHT scene, etc, you don't want to bog down in trivial sequential action, I guess (though that's cool as an effect)

Talking heads can really work to provide exposition, but boy do I see too much amateur stuff where it's JUST dull talking heads. Talkers talking talk.

I agree with RemusShepherd -- SCOTT MCCLOUD. His insights will blow your mind.

[Axler]

There are a lot of reference books about how to write the "graphic narrative"...I've written one myself.

But if you start with the rule of thumb that every page is a self-contained unit--even if it's part of the same sequence--you're ahead of the curve.

[Word Jedi]

Keep in mind that unlike screenwriting, breaking a story down into panels is a form of visual shorthand. Also, unlike a scene in a film script, you have to vary perspective, light/shadow values and be aware of the relationship of dialogue balloons with the art.

It wouldn't hurt to lay out the panels on a page yourself, using stick figures if nothing else.

I'll be teaching a class in writing graphic novels at this year's Cape Cod's Writer's Conference and I'll use this page (among others) by the great Jim Mooney as an example of how to make even a largely expository page seem interesting:

http://www.comicspace.com/markaxlerellis/uploaded/3269/1171507085_tzG35EYrh6.jpg

Ah, the Great Jim Mooney. He certainly was one of the best in the business.

[Wolvel]

Another thing to look at as well. If you partner with a artist it may be a good ideas to work with them as well. What I mean is go ahead and write the basic story then get with the artist to break the story down into panels on the page. Some artists are sticklers for panel breakdowns and others(including myself) kind of freeflow the page design to fit either the story or action included in the page.

If your doing a talking head story then it would be easier to do a panel by panel breakdown. Now if your doing a story that has action sequences you need to remember that from time to time you may have panels without dialogue. So if your going to do a panel by panel breakdown you will need to include the non speaking panels as well.

[xssve]

Frank Miller is an interesting study - one thing he does is avoid long dialogue exchanges in a single panel: i.e., one character says something, another character responds, if the first character speaks again, it a new panel. I like that, it keeps the story moving, but maybe not so good if you write a lot of dialogue.

The page above is a good example of compression, there's a lot of dialogue, and doing the Miller way would have required more panels.

He also has a lot of interesting thoughts on how to slow the pace, keep the reader from skimming through too quickly, breaking the dialogue up that way is one of them.

The thing about comix is, it's all panels, you have to really think about pacing, the goal is to keep the reader hooked, and really want to turn the page to see what happens next - there is a lot of buildup, i.e., you want to build tension as you approach the page turn, and then give the reader something when they do turn the page, then the whole cycle starts over, it's an old Stan Lee/Jack Kirby Marvel trick, and pacing in general, is critical: you want the reader hooked, but you want them to take their time, not just flipping through it - which is something the viewer can't do with film.

The medium really puts a lot of constraints on writers, much more so than film - you do have to think cinematographically, like scriptwriting, but the pacing is a bit more nuanced, you have to keep it coming, focus on action, keep the dialogue snappy - you can't have characters holding extended conversations for pages and pages, keep narration and internal dialogue to a minimum, etc. - you have to let the pictures do a lot of the talking.

Narration does broaden the possibilities, but look for ways to use narrative voice effectively, the art is essentially the narrative voice in comix, narrative boxes can interrupt the flow if they're handled wrong.

Also, unlike film, there are no actors to interpret the script for you, you have to think a little more about conveying things through facial expression and body language, rather than just dialogue.

I could go on, once you get into the actual nuances of shot choices and angles, it can get complicated, there are visual tricks artist use to help control the pace, but those are some of the high points.

[xssve]

The sad truth is, the 22 page format is a real pain in the ass from a writers standpoint, it places some real constraints on how you tell a story, I'm focusing on short anthology pieces, leaning towards GN's eventually, but it has to be a good story for a publisher to take a chance on it.

But, I usually start from a 9 panel layout - and remember, if you're writing shorter stuff, it's usually in 4 page increments - minus one, since the stories usually start and end on a right hand page, but it isn't written in stone, it depends on the publisher, some of them have preferences.

If you lay it out in 9 panel pages, you can then go back and decide if you want to change the format to emphasize certain panels, but working within the 9 panel constraint can be good exercise.

[Wolvel]

The sad truth is, the 22 page format is a real pain in the ass from a writers standpoint, it places some real constraints on how you tell a story, I'm focusing on short anthology pieces, leaning towards GN's eventually, but it has to be a good story for a publisher to take a chance on it.

But, I usually start from a 9 panel layout - and remember, if you're writing shorter stuff, it's usually in 4 page increments - minus one, since the stories usually start and end on a right hand page, but it isn't written in stone, it depends on the publisher, some of them have preferences.

If you lay it out in 9 panel pages, you can then go back and decide if you want to change the format to emphasize certain panels, but working within the 9 panel constraint can be good exercise.


While this is a good all around basic formula you also have to see what kind of artist you will be dealing with as well. Some artists are natural storytellers and their layouts will surpase a basic set-up.

Now if you are writing in general for any artist the 9 panel layout is a good framework to build on. You may even want to lay out some pages broken down into 9 panels and put your word ballons etc in each box to see how it will flow.

[xssve]

Yeah, I wouldn't confine my self to it, but I do recommend it as an exercise, it will help you start thinking in terms of of story flow w/regard to panels, adding the dialogue/narrative boxes is a good idea.

[Axler]

The thumbnail/breakdown method is my preferred choice, simply because you can convey your visualization of the page to the artists yet still allow them to play around with it yet keep the storytelling elements intact. For example:

Layout:
http://www.comicspace.com/markaxlerellis/uploaded/22075/1278338271_oB5euYNlqA.jpg

Penciled pages:
http://www.comicspace.com/markaxlerellis/uploaded/22075/1276213411_sVd9o1QI2K.jpg
Art by Preston Asevedo

[Wolvel]

Yeah, I wouldn't confine my self to it, but I do recommend it as an exercise, it will help you start thinking in terms of of story flow w/regard to panels, adding the dialogue/narrative boxes is a good idea.


I don't confine myself to it either but I'm a storyteller with my art so I write the story in my head as I draw my pages out. It may sound strange but it works for me.

[Wolvel]

The thumbnail/breakdown method is my preferred choice, simply because you can convey your visualization of the page to the artists yet still allow them to play around with it yet keep the storytelling elements intact. For example:

Layout:
http://www.comicspace.com/markaxlerellis/uploaded/22075/1278338271_oB5euYNlqA.jpg

Penciled pages:
http://www.comicspace.com/markaxlerellis/uploaded/22075/1276213411_sVd9o1QI2K.jpg
Art by Preston Asevedo


This way works great if the writer can visualize like you can.

But I have worked with a writer in the past who could write a great story but had no visual skill at all when he tried it we went backwards instead of forwards.

[FinbarReilly]

1) Yeah; if you don't have Understanding Comics on your shelf and you're even slightly interested in comics, you're just wasting time.

2) Some more specifics:
- One per panel. Don't break this one without a very good reason. It's also the hardest for writers to deal with.
- Nine panels for average action. More for talking, fewer for action. You can get away with one for monologues, introduction scenes, splash pages, and last page "going to kick ass next book" scenes.
- Thumbnails (for panel lay-out) doesn't always mean "small drawing". I use them to show straight panel layouts for the page.
- Write like a journalist, not a prose writer.
- Make sure that you note what's happening, who is saying what, and captions, in that order. Your artist will love you.
- Know your artist. Some like panel break-downs, some don't. If you don't have a specific artist on board, break it down by default.

If that helps...
FR

[Wolvel]

You almost have to break your story down like working on a movie and look at your panels as scenes in the movie just on a smaller scale.

[Axler]

That's why I prefer the thumbnail/layout method...blocks everything out and it's easier to control the pace.

[Miss Plum]

2) Some more specifics:
- One per panel. Don't break this one without a very good reason. It's also the hardest for writers to deal with.

One what per panel?

[Bicyclefish]

One what per panel?
Kitten! Sometimes, there are too many kittens and I overdose on the fluffiness.

Bit of a tangent, but I'm reminded of a peeves of mine: 2 page layouts that don't take into account the fold/staple. I've seen some comics where the character's face, a focus of the panel, lands smack on the fold.

[Miss Plum]

Hee hee. You can never have too many kittens. And that's a very good point about the two-page layout. I hate having to break the spine of a book just to see what's going on in the margins.

[FinbarReilly]

No, not kittens, that would be disgusting. Platypi.

Sorry; one action per panel. Some people do two or three, and all that happens is that the artist ends up pulling his hair out....I hope that the rest of the advice was good?

FR