Submitting Book After Agent Passes

Hedgetrimmer · Apr 5, 2010

I'm wondering if any of you have had experience submitting a book directly to an editor after your agent has taken a pass on it. Of course I realize the agent must first agree, but does doing so ever create tension in the relationship or is it accepted as common practice?

Amarie · Apr 5, 2010

No experience here, but that seems like it would be an extremely uncommon practice. First of all, if the agent is passing on a book because they don't think it's strong enough to sell, they're probably right. If they're passing because they don't think it has a place in the market at the current time, they're probably right about that too. If they pass because they don't have the right contacts to sell it, and the work is of a type you want to continue to write, then you need a new agent.

Also, I can't see editors excepting a manuscript directly from a writer unless you've met them at a conference or something. Even if you had, it would be considered a very odd business practice to go around the agent. I've heard of it only in the case where a writer felt their agent wasn't exploring all options, so the writer went ahead and queried small pubs. himself. Basically, it was the case of the wrong agent for that writer.

Phaeal · Apr 5, 2010

The important unknown factor here is why the agent passed.

CheekyWench · Apr 5, 2010

I have a different experience.
I had a few passes by agents on my book with mostly form rejects. The only one who said anything about it said she was passing due to the length.
Well, with that to go by, I assumed all the passes were for the same reason.
I submitted it directly to an editor (e-pub!) and it was accepted. (last friday! :hooray:

)

However with out having any inkling on why the agent passed, it's going to be hard to tell.

Good luck

willietheshakes · Apr 5, 2010

CheekyWench said:
I have a different experience.
I had a few passes by agents on my book with mostly form rejects. The only one who said anything about it said she was passing due to the length.
Well, with that to go by, I assumed all the passes were for the same reason.
I submitted it directly to an editor (e-pub!) and it was accepted. (last friday! )

However with out having any inkling on why the agent passed, it's going to be hard to tell.

Good luck

That doesn't seem to be the situation here, though. By my reading of the OP, there is already an agent in place, but they have passed on/refused to submit THIS particular book...

And congratulations!

cwfgal · Apr 5, 2010

What kind of book is it? Is it something your agent reps? And as others have said, knowing why your agent refused is key.

I had an exclusionary agreement with one of my agents that I could sell any of my nonfiction stuff on my own.

I would simply tell the agent you plan to submit on your own (without including the agent's name anywhere) and then do so. If the agent objects, find a new agent. But first I think it's important to understand why the agent is saying no.

Beth

CheekyWench · Apr 5, 2010

willietheshakes said:
That doesn't seem to be the situation here, though. By my reading of the OP, there is already an agent in place, but they have passed on/refused to submit THIS particular book...

And congratulations!

Oh I see!
That's what I get for trying to respond coherently before coffee. lol

(and thanks!)

Hedgetrimmer · Apr 5, 2010

willietheshakes said:
That doesn't seem to be the situation here, though. By my reading of the OP, there is already an agent in place, but they have passed on/refused to submit THIS particular book...

And congratulations!

Yeah, that's the correct read on it. I've seen a few posts around here in which the agented writers shopped their manuscripts because the agent didn't care for the genre. In some instances, the agent wouldn't even read the books. But they never said how it went, either with the submission or the ongoing relationship with the agent. Just wondering if anyone has ever walked down this road.

lucidzfl · Apr 5, 2010

Hedgetrimmer said:
Yeah, that's the correct read on it. I've seen a few posts around here in which the agented writers shopped their manuscripts because the agent didn't care for the genre. In some instances, the agent wouldn't even read the books. But they never said how it went, either with the submission or the ongoing relationship with the agent. Just wondering if anyone has ever walked down this road.

The idea of my agent refusing to read one of my books would make me want to strangle puppies.

I'd submit the fucker to an editor myself and make sure that when it is accepted, and sold, you don't give the agent one red cent.

timewaster · Apr 5, 2010

Hedgetrimmer said:
I'm wondering if any of you have had experience submitting a book directly to an editor after your agent has taken a pass on it. Of course I realize the agent must first agree, but does doing so ever create tension in the relationship or is it accepted as common practice?

I don't think you can easily do that if you have an ongoing relationship with the agent. Perhaps if you were to do it with their agreement under a different name that would be Ok, but you employ an agent for their expertise in guiding your career and ignoring that expertise seems a little perverse and potentially v damaging.

lucidzfl · Apr 5, 2010

The idea of employing an agent to guide my career makes me want to strangle puppies.

CheekyWench · Apr 5, 2010

I'd ask why they passed and what to do now.
I would hope that they're 'no' wouldn't be the end of the road for your work. I agree with Timewaster as well. Going over their head to the editor might be damaging. Maybe just ask your agent for guidance. They don't want it, so what now?

Amarie · Apr 5, 2010

lucidzfl said:
The idea of employing an agent to guide my career makes me want to strangle puppies.

It's not really that way. It's more like you say to your agent, "This is how I want my career to progress. How can you help me get there?"

willietheshakes · Apr 5, 2010

lucidzfl said:
The idea of employing an agent to guide my career makes me want to strangle puppies.

a) That's NOT what was actually written.
b) To each their own.

There's something noble about the lone rebel setting out to do things completely contrary to the way 99% of the others do things. Something bigger than life. Something... inspiring?

"Agent? I don't need no stinking agent! I'll storm the barricades, tear down the walls, kill the gatekeepers and create a utopia for my fellow writers!"

Me? I'm one of those schmucks who'll settle for regular publication, booktours, groupies and cash.

willietheshakes · Apr 5, 2010

Melia said:
It's not really that way. It's more like you say to your agent, "This is how I want my career to progress. How can you help me get there?"

(shakes head)
"Forget about it, Melia. It's Chinatown."

lucidzfl · Apr 5, 2010

I definitely realize I'm in the minority with the way I approach writing willie. I'm going to try to hold my tongue as much as possible, but if I didn't post about it everyonce in a while, only one side of the coin would ever be seen.

Toothpaste · Apr 5, 2010

lucidzfl - the problem is, unlike James who has actually worked with agents and has made his mind up from evidence and his personality meshing or not with other people, you have made up your mind based on reading some stuff, not through any personal experience. The way you speak of agents and how an author supposedly relates to them is so wrong, that I have to suggest you are drawing conclusions from false premises and basing an entire philosophy off a logical fallacy.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again, when you actually get an agent (and I know you still want one, you just don't want to want one) and have actual interactions with him/her, I challenge you to return here with this same attitude.

As to Hedge, this is a conversation to have with your agent. Any agent worth their salt will be more than willing to discuss this with you, and may even have some strategic advice if you decide to go it alone with that MS. Or they might have an inside scoop like "At Bologna it was agreed that books with the word Zipper in them will be banned from publication" and so maybe your "The Grandest Zipper of Them All" book might not be the right thing to submit at this time

.

lucidzfl · Apr 5, 2010

Yes Toothpaste, I am still going to seek an agent for my first book. The second an agent says "I don't want to read your new book" I will either find a new agent or begin contacting editors directly. That story was not mine, but someone elses.

And again, I realize I'm in the minority with my views. I am also someone who does not suffer from hubris. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I'm fine with that.

If I can find an agent who is willing to work with me and adhere to my schedule, that would be fantastic. I don't "want" to have to do more work (ie: not having an agent) but am willing to.

I have heard that agents do not like submitting more than a book or two per year.

That doesn't work for me.

willietheshakes · Apr 5, 2010

lucidzfl said:
Yes Toothpaste, I am still going to seek an agent for my first book. The second an agent says "I don't want to read your new book" I will either find a new agent or begin contacting editors directly. That story was not mine, but someone elses.

And again, I realize I'm in the minority with my views. I am also someone who does not suffer from hubris. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I'm fine with that.

If I can find an agent who is willing to work with me and adhere to my schedule, that would be fantastic. I don't "want" to have to do more work (ie: not having an agent) but am willing to.

I have heard that agents do not like submitting more than a book or two per year.

That doesn't work for me.

At the risk of engaging with this - again - you don't actually know WHAT works for you, as yet. You know about putting words on paper, but beyond that, you're speculating, based on other sources and your own preconceptions.

You don't, for example, know how much of an editorial process you'll be going through with your first manuscript. The fact that it could take 18 months to get that book into print might be a factor in your agent's willingness to submit around your multitude of other books, or the willingness of editors to read them. Just as a "for example".

It's not an insult, and I hope you don't take it as one, it's just a fact: you don't know. You don't have any way to know. And that's fine. There's a lot of stuff I don't know; life is about the learning. But I don't hold to a certainty that, in not knowing those things, I actually know better than others who have direct knowledge of them.

ETA: cross posted with toothpaste. What she said.

Toothpaste · Apr 5, 2010

Well what you have heard is wrong. I have one book on submission and am getting my edits done today to get another to my agent so she can then immediately put that one out of submission. I have another friend with two totally different books on submission as well.

In fact, almost every time you pronounce something about an agent (like in the Ask the Agent thread when you insisted that you'd read that a person had to have contacts to get an agent and I told you that no that was absolutely false) it's wrong. Which is why your ridiculously strong negative opinion on agents is, well, ridiculous. You don't really know what you're talking about, I'm afraid. That's not a bad thing, it's just what happens when a person has yet to experience something. Do you think I would know as much as I do now if I hadn't spent so much time now involved in the publishing industry?

Still for some reason my experience isn't good enough for you. But for all you lurkers out there, I hope some of you trust that I'm not a total fool. Just a bit of one

.

ETA: cross posted with Willie. What he said.

Hedgetrimmer · Apr 5, 2010

Toothpaste said:
As to Hedge, this is a conversation to have with your agent. Any agent worth their salt will be more than willing to discuss this with you, and may even have some strategic advice if you decide to go it alone with that MS. Or they might have an inside scoop like "At Bologna it was agreed that books with the word Zipper in them will be banned from publication" and so maybe your "The Grandest Zipper of Them All" book might not be the right thing to submit at this time .

Hopefully, I'll never get to such a road. As we all discussed in a separate thread, I value my agent's input enough to get feedback before investing too much in a project. But it's still a frightening thought to spend a year on a book that may never be sent out, for whatever reason.

Toothpaste · Apr 5, 2010

Oh, so is this all in theory then?

I really wouldn't worry about it then. You can't let your fear of rejection make you not write what you want to write. In the end the hope is that the agent you got is your agent because they like your work, and understands it. If you find that your agent is only interested in one thing you've written, and subsequent works get turned away, then you might have to get another agent. My friend is dealing with this situation right now, her agent seems to not want anything she's written but what she wants her to write, and they are coming to a cross roads. The relationship might be ending soon.

The ideal agent/author relationship is one where the agent gets what you are trying to do as a writer and has a similar vision for your career path. Yes they might help guide you in ways you hadn't considered, but you must be on the same page.

So just write your book and trust that your agent signed you for you and not just the one work.

(and for Lucid - see, I'm acknowledging that there are agents that aren't right for certain authors, but you see when I speak of the agent/author relationship in general I am speaking about a good relationship which I have seen over and over again and which is very doable. But finding the right agent is a bit like dating, and might take a few tries before you find your match. When you do, however, it's fantastic)

Shady Lane · Apr 5, 2010

This was just my experience...

My editor at SP requested a manuscript I'd written that my agent decided needed major revisions before the editor could see it. She kept promising a revision letter and never sent one. About two months after she first promised the letter, I left this agent (this was not the only reason) and submitted the manuscript to the editor myself. I also took another ms that had already been seen by a lot of editors and submitted it to some smaller presses and some editors I knew through friends.

SP bought the requested manuscript shortly after I signed with my new agent. The other manuscript didn't sell, but that was pretty much to be expected.

Obviously this is different because my editor at SP had already published BREAK and requested the ms I sent her.

Hedgetrimmer · Apr 5, 2010

Toothpaste said:
Oh, so is this all in theory then?

I really wouldn't worry about it then. You can't let your fear of rejection make you not write what you want to write. In the end the hope is that the agent you got is your agent because they like your work, and understands it. If you find that your agent is only interested in one thing you've written, and subsequent works get turned away, then you might have to get another agent. My friend is dealing with this situation right now, her agent seems to not want anything she's written but what she wants her to write, and they are coming to a cross roads. The relationship might be ending soon.

The ideal agent/author relationship is one where the agent gets what you are trying to do as a writer and has a similar vision for your career path. Yes they might help guide you in ways you hadn't considered, but you must be on the same page.

So just write your book and trust that your agent signed you for you and not just the one work.

Yeah, the post is all me just musing aloud. I recently finished my WIP, which I'm sure he's going to love, but I'm toying with the idea of my next work being a very edgy YA. It's unlike anything else I've ever done. I just sent him an email asking for some feedback. I'm hoping he says it sounds interesting, although he might feel I'm pushing the envelope too far. But your advice is duly noted. I certainly need someone interested in the whole scope of my work, as I just can't write the same stuff too many times. We'll see how it goes.

lucidzfl · Apr 5, 2010

Toothpaste said:
Oh, so is this all in theory then?

I really wouldn't worry about it then. You can't let your fear of rejection make you not write what you want to write. In the end the hope is that the agent you got is your agent because they like your work, and understands it. If you find that your agent is only interested in one thing you've written, and subsequent works get turned away, then you might have to get another agent. My friend is dealing with this situation right now, her agent seems to not want anything she's written but what she wants her to write, and they are coming to a cross roads. The relationship might be ending soon.

The ideal agent/author relationship is one where the agent gets what you are trying to do as a writer and has a similar vision for your career path. Yes they might help guide you in ways you hadn't considered, but you must be on the same page.

So just write your book and trust that your agent signed you for you and not just the one work.

(and for Lucid - see, I'm acknowledging that there are agents that aren't right for certain authors, but you see when I speak of the agent/author relationship in general I am speaking about a good relationship which I have seen over and over again and which is very doable. But finding the right agent is a bit like dating, and might take a few tries before you find your match. When you do, however, it's fantastic)

I really don't think I have a "ridiculously bad" attitude towards agents. And should an agent do their due diligence and look me up on the net (I'm waving at you now), please realize I do NOT have a negative image of them. I just have an idea in my mind of what services I want from an agent.

And I fully admit that I do not know much about it. I'm wary about going into business with ANYONE, best of intentions or not. And I'd love ot have someone upon whom I could count on t truly keep my best interests in mind.

I just know that in any business, most people have their OWN best interests in mind, and almost never YOURS.

Submitting Book After Agent Passes

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Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

O.o

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

On the rocks

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present

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O.o

carpe libri

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

Back from the dead

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

Back from the dead

Gentleman. Scholar. Bastard.

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

What happened, just there?

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

my name is hannah

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