Larger-Than-Life Characters

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knight_tour

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I was flipping through a Donald Maass book today (Writing the Breakout Novel) and noticed that he often repeats the necessity of having larger-than-life characters. It made me worry, since that doesn't really appeal to me much. I more enjoy having normal, realistic people being thrust into extraordinary circumstances and having to sink or swim. I worry now that writing this way will get me rejected by agents. I have to admit that most characters I read about in novels seem larger-than-life in some way. I've become a bit tired of it myself, and really want to read more about regular characters doing extraordinary things. I don't want to see swordsmen (or women) who are all-but-unbeatable, or wizards who are ultra-powerful, etc. I suppose some would say that just surviving through extraordinary events would make a character larger-than-life, but I don't agree. Any thoughts?
 

Caitlin Black

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I suppose some would say that just surviving through extraordinary events would make a character larger-than-life, but I don't agree.

Ditto.

I think there is room enough for both everday sort of characters and larger-than-life people too. But think of it this way: your everyday characters can be interesting too. It can be as simple as making them a vampire, or it can be more difficult like making the mundane interesting...

But so long as the plot has good elements to it, such as the "worldly events" that would constitute extraordinary circumstances, it can still sell.

Personally I have a soft spot for those characters that are best at something or other. I love seeing the thin line between being the best and being bested. But I also go in for ordinary characters doing cool things.

2 cents.
 

shaldna

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The problem with writing about 'realistic' people is that they are complicated, irrational, emotionally driven bags of unpredicability.

Made up people should be people the reader can count on for a certain reaction
 

knight_tour

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The problem with writing about 'realistic' people is that they are complicated, irrational, emotionally driven bags of unpredicability.

I would disagree with you on this. True, some people are like what you describe, but certainly not all. Perhaps it is because of where I work, but for me the majority of people I meet are highly rational and certianly not emotionally driven.
 

DeleyanLee

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I was flipping through a Donald Maass book today (Writing the Breakout Novel) and noticed that he often repeats the necessity of having larger-than-life characters. It made me worry, since that doesn't really appeal to me much. I more enjoy having normal, realistic people being thrust into extraordinary circumstances and having to sink or swim.

I went to one of Maass' "Writing the Breakout Novel" Workshops and he spent quite a bit of time explaining this concept, which he noted that people didn't seem to understand.

What he's talking about is people doing things that is beyond their norm, NOT superheroes.

For instance, if your main character is a librarian, leads a quiet, simple life of reading and books and having Sunday dinner with her family--having her do something totally out of that character norm (dancing drunk on a table in a bar, leaping into traffic to save someone, taking a stranger into her home for any reason, or saving the world from ruin) makes her a larger-than-HER-life character.

That's the point--watching the charater go out of their comfort zone, going that extra 100 miles that normally they wouldn't consider.

Which is exactly what you say you like. ;)
 

Barbara R.

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[QUOTE=knight_tour;4812144]I was flipping through a Donald Maass book today (Writing the Breakout Novel) and noticed that he often repeats the necessity of having larger-than-life characters. It made me worry, since that doesn't really appeal to me much. I more enjoy having normal, realistic people being thrust into extraordinary circumstances and having to sink or swim.[/QUOTE]

If they swim under circumstances where you'd expect them to drown, they are larger than life. Maass, and all the other writers who give this advice, doesn't mean that we all need to write about kings and supermen and vampires. Nor do fictional protagonists need to be physically larger than life; they come in all sizes, obviously. But are they really ordinary? I would argue that while their experiences and their “station” in life may be ordinary, they themselves are not.

They way I see it, as novelists we make a deal with our readers. Give us 8 or 10 hours of your life, we tell them, and we'll give you an entertaining (and possibly but not necessarily enlightening) experience. We'll take you someplace you've never been before, geographically or emotionally. If we then go on to present a novel about a person whose problems are ordinary, and whose responses to those problems are ordinary; a character who neither feels nor inspires passion, we have cheated on our side of the deal and can expect the reader to cheat on his.


Most people live fairly muted lives, constricted by custom, necessity, practicality, and manners. But as readers we enjoy characters who go outside the boundaries we accept in our own lives.



Take TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD. Atticus Finch is a small-town lawyer, nothing special on the face of it. But he has become for generations of readers, the epitome of integrity and moral courage, because when faced with a terrible dilemma, he makes choices not many would have the courage to make. What sort of story would it have been had he chosen, as most men in his situation would have, not to represent the accused rapist because it was a no-win situation?



Or take Updike’s Rabbit novels. Updike designed Rabbit as an “everyman” sort of character. He hates his job selling used cars in his father in law’s auto dealership, is married but restless, disappointed in his life…but what Rabbit has that elevates him, in my eyes anyway, is the purest, most intense lustfulness of any character I’ve ever met. What he desires, he desires intensely; and I think that’s true of virtually every fictional hero, however modest or exalted his circumstances.
I
We want the person who actually says what we wish we had the nerve to say, who goes farther than any sensible person would go, who wants more, loves more intensely, hates more intensely…someone fully engaged. That's what's meant by larger than life.

 

DeleyanLee

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Maass, and all the other writers who give this advice, doesn't mean that we all need to write about kings and supermen and vampires. Nor do fictional protagonists need to be physically larger than life; they come in all sizes, obviously.


That's not to say, of course, that we can't write kings, supermen or vampires. Some stories need them, but not all. Some writers (and readers) LIKE kings, supermen and vampires, after all.

We want the person who actually says what we wish we had the nerve to say, who goes farther than any sensible person would go, who wants more, loves more intensely, hates more intensely…someone fully engaged. That's what's meant by larger than life.

Very nicely said.
 

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We want the person who actually says what we wish we had the nerve to say, who goes farther than any sensible person would go, who wants more, loves more intensely, hates more intensely…someone fully engaged. That's what's meant by larger than life.

Ditto this. I think you may be confusing larger-than-life with flamboyant. Flamboyant works great for secondary characters since I write humor, but you have to watch them taking over the story.
 

SPMiller

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And this is boring how?

Predictability is over-rated.
Fiction is not about real people. It's about caricatures of real people. A character in fiction can't break character for no apparent reason; you as the writer have to set up the change.

Similarly, dialog in fiction is not about the way we actually talk. It's about the way we wish we talked.
 

Kweei

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I went to one of Maass' "Writing the Breakout Novel" Workshops and he spent quite a bit of time explaining this concept, which he noted that people didn't seem to understand.

What he's talking about is people doing things that is beyond their norm, NOT superheroes.

For instance, if your main character is a librarian, leads a quiet, simple life of reading and books and having Sunday dinner with her family--having her do something totally out of that character norm (dancing drunk on a table in a bar, leaping into traffic to save someone, taking a stranger into her home for any reason, or saving the world from ruin) makes her a larger-than-HER-life character.

That's the point--watching the charater go out of their comfort zone, going that extra 100 miles that normally they wouldn't consider.

Which is exactly what you say you like. ;)

Well said. We all have drama in our live,s but most of us lead pretty uneventful lives. And when I say uneventful, I mean we don't usually have the level of drama and intrigue that we find in books or TV or film. Larger-than-life characters do that for us. It's not that they are over the top of superheroes or anything. They can be, but don't have to be.
 

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I've always struggled with this "larger than life" concept. Because I wanted my characters to be ordinary, or even subordinary... almost Walter Mitty types... and have them thrust into extra-ordinary circumstances to see how they'll cope.

What he's talking about is people doing things that is beyond their norm, NOT superheroes.

For instance, if your main character is a librarian, leads a quiet, simple life of reading and books and having Sunday dinner with her family--having her do something totally out of that character norm (dancing drunk on a table in a bar, leaping into traffic to save someone, taking a stranger into her home for any reason, or saving the world from ruin) makes her a larger-than-HER-life character.

That's the point--watching the charater go out of their comfort zone, going that extra 100 miles that normally they wouldn't consider.

Which is exactly what you say you like. ;)
This. The term makes sense in this capacity.

They way I see it, as novelists we make a deal with our readers. Give us 8 or 10 hours of your life, we tell them, and we'll give you an entertaining (and possibly but not necessarily enlightening) experience.
Um. Well, for me, it's 8 to 10 WEEKS.
We want the person who actually says what we wish we had the nerve to say, who goes farther than any sensible person would go, who wants more, loves more intensely, hates more intensely…someone fully engaged. That's what's meant by larger than life.
Um, no. That's not larger than life, that's just annoying, almost Mary Sueish. More melodrama than drama.
 

DeleyanLee

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Um, no. That's not larger than life, that's just annoying, almost Mary Sueish. More melodrama than drama.

1. "Mary Sue" is a fanfic term for a character that steals the thunder from the cannon characters. The character may or may not be a wish-fulfillment for the author.

Wish-fulfillment characters are NOT, by definition, bad characters. There are many wish-fulfillment characters on the best-selling lists that work very well within their worlds and stories. They work because there are readers who have the same wishes. But, then, isn't that the nature of characters--to do the things we might secretly dream of, wish we'd have the balls to say, achieve the goals we'd only hope to think about?

2. IMO, there isn't enough "melodrama" in most of the unpublished fiction I've read, especially in the last decade. Writers are so damned afraid of going "over the top" that they don't even get out from under the rock and keep things BORING and uninteresting. The best advice I ever got from a professional author was "Writing fiction is like making baked beans--when you think you've got too much in the mix, add more because you'll always be wrong."

One of my favorite quotes of all time: "No one ever paid for UNDER the top." -- Joel Schumacher
 

Barbara R.

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1.
2. IMO, there isn't enough "melodrama" in most of the unpublished fiction I've read, especially in the last decade. Writers are so damned afraid of going "over the top" that they don't even get out from under the rock and keep things BORING and uninteresting. The best advice I ever got from a professional author was "Writing fiction is like making baked beans--when you think you've got too much in the mix, add more because you'll always be wrong."

One of my favorite quotes of all time: "No one ever paid for UNDER the top." -- Joel Schumacher

A lot of agents I know would agree with that. I hear complaints all the time about novels that are full of exquisite characterization but have no real plot to them. That's one reason a lot of agents still insist on synopses. If your story has no story, it'll show up there.

Love the Schumacher quote, more than I love his films.
 

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I'm guessing my definition of "over the top" is different from yours, just as my definition of "larger than life" is.

Over the top is outrageous and often ridiculous.

I'd rather not read that. I like realism. Sure, no one ever paid for UNDER the top, whatever the hell that means, but most people start laughing when things go OVER the top because of how silly and unrealistic its gotten.
 

DeleyanLee

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I'd rather not read that. I like realism. Sure, no one ever paid for UNDER the top, whatever the hell that means, but most people start laughing when things go OVER the top because of how silly and unrealistic its gotten.

Only if it's really badly written/presented.

I mean, think about it some of the really popular stuff out there: This guy wakes up, not knowing who he is or what's going on with him, but he's completely competent in killing people, getting out of tight jams and traveling all over the world. Yet, people have totally bought that Jason Bourne is NOT over-the-top even though it's totally silly and unrealistic.

How about the classic story of a young girl who breaks out of the chorus and into a starring role after the star has a temper tantrum all because some strange man in a mask lurking in the depths of the theater arranges it. Oh, and this chorus girl ends up winning the heart and hand of a very rich nobleman to boot. Yet "Phantom of the Opera" has captured readers for over 100 years now and is still being performed all over the world to sell-out audiences after 20 years on the stage.

It's all in how it's written/presented. Do it well enough, and no one will notice how "unrealistic" it is.
 

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I think Don means that as you read you should be saying, "I wish I could be like that." After all, if the character is simply doing what you would do, where's the excitement?

And, while I agree that showing an average person in an extraordinary situation can be the basis of a good story, is it the basis of a memorable story? Historically, it's those who rise to the occasion with panache who are memorable. Luke Skywalker was an average kid, once upon a time. And who fantasizes being Clark Kent, other than for the moment when he changes identities and leaps into the sky as Superman?
 

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I was flipping through a Donald Maass book today (Writing the Breakout Novel) and noticed that he often repeats the necessity of having larger-than-life characters. It made me worry, since that doesn't really appeal to me much. I more enjoy having normal, realistic people being thrust into extraordinary circumstances and having to sink or swim. I worry now that writing this way will get me rejected by agents. I have to admit that most characters I read about in novels seem larger-than-life in some way. I've become a bit tired of it myself, and really want to read more about regular characters doing extraordinary things. I don't want to see swordsmen (or women) who are all-but-unbeatable, or wizards who are ultra-powerful, etc. I suppose some would say that just surviving through extraordinary events would make a character larger-than-life, but I don't agree. Any thoughts?

So you're telling me when Mr. Average Joe gets thrust into extraordinary circumstances and he swims instead of sinks -- he isn't larger than life?

A larger-than-life character stands up and overcomes everything you throw at him. Sure he's going to stumble along the way, but he doesn't have to start off as Merlin to be considered great.
 

knight_tour

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So you're telling me when Mr. Average Joe gets thrust into extraordinary circumstances and he swims instead of sinks -- he isn't larger than life?.

Actually, yeah. Real stories would have most people fail, but some normal people can rise to the occasion and survive extraordinary events. To me that is not a larger-than-life character, though it is an admirable one (and we wouldn't bother writing stories about the average people who just fail, or at least not as main characters). What I see far too often in books are actual larger-than-life characters, where they are the 'best' at whatever it is they do. To me that has become so cliché that I never want to touch it in my writing.

I like DeleyanLee's response, as it gives me hope that Mr. Maass doesn't mean the larger-than-life characters that I see too often. Maybe my characters are fine after all.
 
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Whether a character is the 'best' at something is dictated to me by the set-up of the story. Did the character come into the plot accidentally, or were they chosen by someone to do something special? In the former case, the MC can (and probably should) be an ordinary person who rises to the occasion. However, I find it highly unrealistic (and completely unbelievable, even in fantasy) for a random unskilled person to be chosen to do something important. There are often certain people with certain skill sets who are the logical choices to handle a given situation. For example, in one of my books a small fantasy town is suddenly being attacked by monsters. We do not send the local bookstore owner to defend the town and investigate the attacks. We send the police (the MC is the leader of the local police force). Some of my other books have a more epic scope, with someone like an empress doing the choosing, and then we see the very best of the best in the world being chosen. After all, if you can get the best warrior in the world to fight for you, it's only logical to do so.

What I find writers often fail to do when writing extraordinary 'best in the world' characters is to show what personality traits, innate talents, and circumstances led to them becoming so exceptionally skilled. I think most of the truly exceptional characters feel unrealistic because the author hasn't put enough thought into why they're so good.
 

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1. "Mary Sue" is a fanfic term for a character that steals the thunder from the cannon characters. The character may or may not be a wish-fulfillment for the author.
Originally yes. The term has however been broadened since its inception to mean any character who is purely an author insert.
In fact, you know what? Wikipedia will explain it better than I.
 

DeleyanLee

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Originally yes. The term has however been broadened since its inception to mean any character who is purely an author insert.
In fact, you know what? Wikipedia will explain it better than I.

When a character being a "Mary Sue" in original fiction keeps it from become a best seller, then I'll worry about it in my original fiction. To my knowledge, it's never been a serious negative in anything but fanfic--and to writers' crit groups. *shrug*
 
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