Co-author question

[Luminara]

My friend and I have been working on an idea for a few years now. Basically one of the characters is her creation, the rest of the story comes from me. She feels like she has ownership of that character. I suggested that we write the story together, split everything 50/50 and she seemed excited about it. However, whenever I try to set goals or get any concrete work done, she backs out, doesn't commit, and so far all of the writing has been done by me. She is a great sounding board for ideas and I don't want to hurt her again (I told her at one point I wanted to write it myself but changed my mind later). What do you all think? Should I just write it myself? Do I have to give props to her for her character, or even part of the earnings if it is published? Or should I remove her character and make my own?

[alleycat]

My suggestion would be to create your own character and write it yourself.

Or, you might develop a new story idea and work on it. Set the original story aside and tell your friend you're ready to work on it whenever she is (which will probably be never).

[Wayne K]

Things like this get complicated and uncivil from what I've read here on AW. I'd say if you can't work it out, move onto a different project

[Aggy B.]

I'm with Alleycat.

If she's not doing any of the work then you don't want to keep trying to work with her. And, if the character is her creation, you don't want to use that character without permission.

Create your own character and write your own story.

[Barbara R.]

What do you all think? Should I just write it myself? Do I have to give props to her for her character, or even part of the earnings if it is published? Or should I remove her character and make my own?

Coauthoring a book is tough to begin with; I've done it twice, with non-fiction, and it wasn't easy. You're already encountering problems early on in the process, and they're likely to get worse, not better. Since you asked, my suggestion would be to keep the friend but lose the co-author; write your own novel with your own characters.

Barbara

[Terie]

Even if the other person were cooperating, one character isn't worth 50% of any money you might make. As someone else who's collaborated on non-fiction and intimately knows just how badly things can go wrong, I, too, advise you: drop your friend's character, keep your friend, and create a new character of your own.

[Jamesaritchie]

I think it may have been Lawrence Block who said something like, "Co-writing usually turns out to be twice as much work for half as much money and a quarter as much fun."

Your friend is either going to do her share of the work or she isn't. If she isn't, you're just harming yourself by not moving on.

[RJK]

Alleycat hit the triple-twenty with her first dart, and Jim described the prize. Writing is a business and it's no place for friends to be working together.

If you want out of this project, draw up a contract, describing what and when each PARTNER is responsible for. If your friend backs out, it's on her. If she signs the contract, and doesn't hold up her end. you are within your rights to cancel and move on.

[shaldna]

This is why I don't co-author.

The issue here is not how much work she is doing now, but what could happen after publication. Bear in mind that a verbal contract is still a contract, and if she can prove you are using her input then she might well be able to claim, even if she hasn't done any of the work.

I would either write your own character or bail on this novel and come up with something else.

[Wayne K]

I've heard stories where people have changed what the cowriter added to a novel and got sued anyway. I don't know what the outcome was, but it got messy from the thread I read. That's why I suggested moving on

[Linda Adams]

Having been in this situation, I'd recommend starting a new project that has a different story and characters. I had to do that--I gave up the book to the coauthor, even though I had done a lot of the work. Even if I gotten it instead, I would have shelved the project and start fresh so I wouldn't have problems in the future. And it was difficult, giving up on all the time I'd invested--the book had been completed and was being submitted to agents--but it was also the best thing I did. I start submitting the After CoAuthor book on Thursday.

[scope]

I find it very difficult to comment on a person and an overall situation of which I know absolutely nothing. That said, I agree with most who say drop the whole project and start a new one. However, if for some reason you want to maintain this project then I think you have to sit down with her once again, but this time with a schedule which tells her exactly what and by when you must receive work from her (beginning, middle, end). And given the background you describe I would make make these dates soon, but not unrealistic. I know you don't want to be a bully, but this is work, and either you can or can't rely on her. If you do something like I describe I think you should also have to give a default time (if you don't have what is needed by X date you and she have no agreement). Something along those lines.

Good luck.

[Linda Adams]

I find it very difficult to comment on a person and an overall situation of which I know absolutely nothing. That said, I agree with most who say drop the whole project and start a new one. However, if for some reason you want to maintain this project then I think you have to sit down with her once again, but this time with a schedule which tells her exactly what and by when you must receive work from her (beginning, middle, end). And given the background you describe I would make make these dates soon, but not unrealistic. I know you don't want to be a bully, but this is work, and either you can or can't rely on her. If you do something like I describe I think you should also have to give a default time (if you don't have what is needed by X date you and she have no agreement). Something along those lines.

Good luck.

The real problem is that it can turn extremely nasty if it blows apart. That should be avoided if possible because it has all kinds of emotional repercussions. Mine was so bad for me that I had someone tell me she was surprised I didn't have to take several years off to recover from it. I started a new book within a couple of months, and one of the reasons was that I was not going to let him affect my writing.

[Cathy C]

I've now been in a co-author relationship for 10+ years. (The "Cat" in the book below is me. The "Adams" is her.) It can work fine provided you spell everything out carefully. The partnership started just exactly like you state in your post. My friend added secondary characters to a book I wrote and I liked them. The book sold and I felt hideously guilty because her book (that I added characters and a subplot to) HADN'T sold yet. How could I accept money and potential fame when it's quite possible her ideas had made the difference on acceptance?

Well, I couldn't. Worse still, what if HER book sold? Yeah, I'd want credit. Once I admitted that to myself, we became partners. But since we both worked in the legal field, we wrote up an iron-clad partnership agreement, including getting a tax identification number from the IRS, a joint accountant and a joint entertainment attorney. (We also have separate accountants and attorneys.)

I won't deny there have been ups and downs in the process. But the agreement made our duties, obligations AND rewards clear. I write half the books and she writes the other. (We literally flip a coin to see who writes what.) Sometimes I get two in a row, and sometimes she does. We talk out ideas for "joint" projects but also do individual stuff. That keeps us sane and not getting snippy with each other.

I'd be happy to send you the sample of the partnership agreement we worked out if you want to see some of the things you'll want to talk about. Just PM me. :)

[Jamesaritchie]

I've seen co-writing that worked really, really well. . .about once every hundred times. And even some very long lasting co-writing relationships can turn very, very nasty, no matter what kind of contract you have in place.

Of course, I also take the approach that it's my damn book, and good or bad, ain't no one getting the credit or the blame but me.

[Cathy C]

The biggest problem that comes up in writing novels with a co-author is unrealistic expectations. We're people first and sometimes life, well . . . sucks. If one author's focus is on completing the book and the other author isn't on the same focus, it can get ugly. But one important thing that we adopted early on in our partnership was the "Primary author/secondary author" scenario, which removes that problem. There are a number of other co-authors that employ the same technique (such as Lincoln Child & Douglas Preston, who I read an interview about recently). One author, the primary, writes the WHOLE BOOK. Start to finish, with no help other than using the secondary author as a sounding board for ideas. The secondary author gets to go in when it's done, making wholesale changes at will. No red pen, no track changes. Just rewriting whole sections or chapters, or not. The primary author then gets it back, reads and and either accepts or rejects certain changes. Then it goes to the editor.

Having that sort of trust in a co-author relationship requires two things: 1) That you absolutely respect the other author's talent; and 2) That you can look past your own ego toward the betterment of the book. Because if you respect the other person's talent, you know the book will get better. And frankly, if you DON'T respect the other person's talent for creation and word choice, then why bother to enter into a partnership with them? I know that Cie is far better with characterization than I'll ever be. She creates real, living people that readers want to know. I know the book will be better for her subtle touches. But I write better action scenes and sex scenes (handy for romances! :D ) She looks forward to extra paragraphs that add the "Zow!" to those scenes. Between the two of us, the book is a stronger whole. But we've both been learning the techniques of the other during our ten years so now our individual works are as strong as the joint ones. Now the partnership is truly one of a coin flip because anymore, there isn't much to edit when we get the other's first draft. What does that mean for us and why keep doing it? Simple! Free money! We can produce twice the product in half the time and even when I'm not writing a book and am instead lounging in my easy chair with sore arms, I'm earning money because she's writing the next one.

Good times . . . good times. ;)

[Luminara]

Thanks everyone for the great advice! I think the two of us would complement each other well as writers. I like the idea of the primary/secondary author scenario and I think that will work out well in this situation. I plan on having a discussion with her about it tonight if possible to see how serious she is about this joint project. She does have a few works of her own, as do I, and I hope we don't decide to part ways (as far as writing is concerned) and dispel the story.

[HAWKEYE]

My friend and I have been working on an idea for a few years now. Basically one of the characters is her creation, the rest of the story comes from me. She feels like she has ownership of that character. I suggested that we write the story together, split everything 50/50 and she seemed excited about it. However, whenever I try to set goals or get any concrete work done, she backs out, doesn't commit, and so far all of the writing has been done by me. She is a great sounding board for ideas and I don't want to hurt her again (I told her at one point I wanted to write it myself but changed my mind later). What do you all think? Should I just write it myself? Do I have to give props to her for her character, or even part of the earnings if it is published? Or should I remove her character and make my own?

You can't change people. You can't make someone care about something as much as you do. It can only end badly.

[jana13k]

I would tell her that you are serious about this book and the career and draw up papers that spells out what you will do and what she is responsible for. If she agrees and doesn't do it, the documents need to contain language that at that point she is in breech of contract and all rights to the work revert to you.

This is done in other partnerships for business all the time. One partner ends up doing all the work and the other sits, so partners started getting smart and legally requiring the other to "earn" their portion of the business.

[nitaworm]

I don't think a co-author could put up with me. I work at a mad pace and get frustrated when I don't meet my personal deadlines. For me, a story haunts me until it's written. I would bug the poor person to death if they didn't write their section, then end up writing it for them. For me, a good crit partner works out best, and even then I have to make sure I don't over do it with my manic pace.

[jana13k]

I don't think a co-author could put up with me. I work at a mad pace and get frustrated when I don't meet my personal deadlines. For me, a story haunts me until it's written. I would bug the poor person to death if they didn't write their section, then end up writing it for them. For me, a good crit partner works out best, and even then I have to make sure I don't over do it with my manic pace.
I agree with this, and since I don't have kids (just a very neglected husband), I can work more than many of my friends - the ones who work full-time, anyway.

Besides, friends have given me character ideas. Jeez, I've given friends entire plot ideas. I have ZERO desire for a cut of their stuff as the hard part is WRITING IT. An idea is nothing. I have a whole mental cabinet full of ideas.

[nitaworm]

Thanks Jana, I'm glad to know there is another manic writer around, lol!

[JayG]

Do I have to give props to her for her character, or even part of the earnings if it is published?

Let’s inject a small dose of reality. Is she a published author? Have you and your co-author studied the publishing industry, and writing technique, to maximize the chance of sale? I say this because ideas are easy, and brainstorming characters is nothing, compared to the work and study it takes to bring that story to life on the page.

You say she’s only sat with you while you talked about the story, and suggested a character. So what? If you ask, about 85% of Americans feel they have a novel in them. Does it count if they don't write it? They also think that with the right breaks they could have been a rock star… and a sports hero… and an Oscar winner... and…

What you do is to write the story, polish it, and sell it. And then, in the dedication, you say, “And special thanks to my best friend, Susie, who suggested…”

[Cathy C]

I say this because ideas are easy, and brainstorming characters is nothing, compared to the work and study it takes to bring that story to life on the page.


And see, to me, this idea is completely backwards. I get very close to zero ideas of my own. Ideas---ones with fully developed characters and plots are HARD. Writing (again, to me) is quite easy. You give me an idea and I can run with it. That talent is what I brought to the partnership. Ideas are what Cie brought. I'm slowly . . . very slowly, beginning to get my own ideas. But it's been a struggle for ten years now.

Does it count if they don't write it? Oh hell yes! A person with good ideas who can't write is a perfect partner with one who can write but can't imagine. The trick is considering each side as valid, and valuable, as the other.

[jana13k]

Does it count if they don't write it? Oh hell yes! A person with good ideas who can't write is a perfect partner with one who can write but can't imagine. The trick is considering each side as valid, and valuable, as the other.
The thing is though, it's only valuable to you if you can't do it yourself. I took the OP's post to mean they have their own ideas, but this just happened to be one of a friends.

I wish I could sell ideas. I have an over-abundance of ideas. What I don't have is the time to write them all. (sigh)

[Linda Adams]

And see, to me, this idea is completely backwards. I get very close to zero ideas of my own. Ideas---ones with fully developed characters and plots are HARD. Writing (again, to me) is quite easy. You give me an idea and I can run with it. That talent is what I brought to the partnership. Ideas are what Cie brought. I'm slowly . . . very slowly, beginning to get my own ideas. But it's been a struggle for ten years now.

Does it count if they don't write it? Oh hell yes! A person with good ideas who can't write is a perfect partner with one who can write but can't imagine. The trick is considering each side as valid, and valuable, as the other.

Getting into a partnership to fix a problem can also not be such a good idea. I had a deal-breaker problem--subplots. I just couldn't get them to work in the story and didn't understand why. I literally could not point to the reason why they were such a problem. Cowriter proposed that we write together. He could balance out my weakness in subplots and I could balance out his weakness in characterization. To be fair, my subplot problem was extremely odd, and there wouldn't have been any way for him to balance it out unless he had known exactly what the problem was. The result was that it continued throughout not one but three books. He didn't understand what I was doing with the subplots, and I didn't solve it until I did a solo book.

[JayG]

Well, in that case, since you're able to sell the result, why complain? Let her plot/critique/edit, while you write. Since she fills what you feel is a need, then cut her in proportionately.

Is this a new problem? If not, It makes no sense to be angry at someone for being what you know they are.