Argh. Staring at 200 pages, considering rewrite...

Torrance · Mar 28, 2010

it's really maddening. What I wrote isn't bad, actually I think it's quite good but I think that the story could be told better from a different starting point. The really necessary relationships within the book take too long to develop. It would be easier to put the characters together and then to flesh out their connections. I start with action, develop backstory, but the coming together of the central characters is slow to happen. I have to tell you it is overwhelming and disheartening to think about starting over. At the same time, when I'm driving around listening to Depeche Mode or some other transportive music, and considering the options, I can be excited about the prospects. It's the sitting down and starting that's the issue. I boot up, open Word and stare at a white screen. ARGH! It's been weeks and weeks... I will find any excuse not to deal, here, email, aintitcool, facebook... it doesn't matter. Any suggestions to get over this hump and to buckle down? I mean I wrote 200 pages, that had to happen somehow... right?!

Signed-
Dude lamenting his dreary, sullen, laziness in South Florida.

Lisa Cox · Mar 28, 2010

I can't give you advice on how to rewrite, where to begin, etc -- because I've not been there (yet). But I will say:

Get your butt in the chair and your fingers on the keyboard.

You've already recognised the problems in the manuscript -- that's a huge hurdle you've crossed. Don't let it pass you by.

Phaeal · Mar 28, 2010

Sounds like you needed to write those 200 pages to find out what you wanted to say. That's a big part of what first drafts are for.

My advice: DO NOT START OVER. Starting over creates the dreaded STARTING OVER SYNDROME. If you keep STARTING OVER, you will never FINISH, which leads to the even more dreaded NO FINISHED NOVELS DISORDER.

Continue the novel, incorporating your new ideas into the new material. When you reach the end, you can go back and rewrite the beginning to match the rest. Gross restructuring is a big part of what second drafts are for.

timewaster · Mar 28, 2010

Phaeal said:
Sounds like you needed to write those 200 pages to find out what you wanted to say. That's a big part of what first drafts are for.

My advice: DO NOT START OVER. Starting over creates the dreaded STARTING OVER SYNDROME. If you keep STARTING OVER, you will never FINISH, which leads to the even more dreaded NO FINISHED NOVELS DISORDER.

I don't know that starting over necessarily produces that effect. If you think you need to start over you are probably right.

What I have done when I've found myself in this position is to save a copy of my work labelled something encouraging like 'Newversion' and to start writing in the same file. If I have already written material that works I copy and paste it into my new chapter one. At the end of each chapter I delete all the material I haven't used from that chapter and know I don't need. I move anything I am not sure of to the end of the document. I continue rewriting and deleting until I get to the end. Any nice bits I couldn't delete, or plot/character ideas I still valued I either incorporated somewhere or ditched.

The advantage of this is you don't have to start with nothing if that bugs you - you have 200 pages of possibly useable stuff.
- you make sure you don't leave out anything that you liked and might want to keep in the first draft.
-Every time you delete material it is because you know you have found a better way of covering the same ground or that you've found better ground to cover.
- Some stuff will be reusable - if in slightly different form - which usually makes for a quicker draft.

When I have done this I ended up keeping almost nothing from the earlier draft but I was in no doubt that the new stuff worked better.
Make a big pot of your beverage of choice, take a deep breath and start again : )

alex sultan · Mar 28, 2010

And my advice, though I'm sure it won't be appreciated, is to never start writing a story until it's fully outlined/fleshed out. I actually can't believe 90% of all writers do it the other way.

maestrowork · Mar 28, 2010

Don't start over... keep writing. If you must write another 400 pages, so be it. But don't start over again. Keep going (and keep changing your mind -- it's allowed) until you hit THE END. Then go back and fix everything.

maestrowork · Mar 28, 2010

alex sultan said:
And my advice, though I'm sure it won't be appreciated, is to never start writing a story until it's fully outlined/fleshed out. I actually can't believe 90% of all writers do it the other way.

I don't fully outline. I am sure it works for some, but it doesn't work for me because as the story progresses, I find better ways and change my minds or the characters tell me something else. I do have a shell of the story and know what it is about and the major plot points, but I don't ever do a "full outline."

alex sultan · Mar 28, 2010

Yes, of course. To finally distinguish my case from the countless "pro/con outline" threads, I might have to clarify that, as it seems, I have the uncanny ability to actually write a book in my mind. I mean, as in "fully written", down to the last scene. Then it's only a matter of putting the words (that describe the story best) on paper.

Very easy.

It only takes time. No writing whatsoever (even an outline) till the final stage. No writer's blocks. No words wasted.

lucidzfl · Mar 28, 2010

I outline, and I outline and I outline. But to no avail. My characters always surprise me. So I end up re-outlining as part of my process. I like having a rough idea of what will happen in the story, but I do not hamstring my characters into silly things like plot or trajectory.

timewaster · Mar 28, 2010

alex sultan said:
And my advice, though I'm sure it won't be appreciated, is to never start writing a story until it's fully outlined/fleshed out. I actually can't believe 90% of all writers do it the other way.

Good for you.
I outline insofar as I sell of synopsis and sample chapters prior to writing the book. Sometimes it still goes wrong. I rewrote all but the first four chapters of an 80k novel that was 'The Spellgrinder's Apprentice' ( Silverboy in the US) and I just rewrote the first 12k of my current commissioned novel because it wasn't working. Neither outlining nor experience will necessarily prevent it all going pear shaped: sometimes it just does.
Sometimes the feeling that it is all terrible is just a temporary falling out of love with the project, sometimes it actually is terrible and you have to bite the bullet and fix it.

Torrance · Mar 28, 2010

Wow lots of food for thought. Funny glimpse into the reality of the situation, I wrote the original post, got in the car with the wife and went to the local nursery. There we purchased some bushes for the front yard and each of us grabbed up a shrub that we thought we might like to bonsai. I went with the green island ficus, she went with a very nicely colored (kind of a burnt orange) bougainvillea. My latest avoidance tactic? Probably. Okay, definitely.

The thing is, I find gardening to be stress relieving and it helps me to think. Tonight when the house is quiet I am going to disconnect the internet, break out the coffee press and write a new first chapter. I figure I have to start somewhere. The nice part is that thinking about it, I see where I could likely fit this chapter into the original work and make it mesh in a way that moved the story along.

At this point, the voice in my head is telling me that this change will be good and that there is a lot of stuff that is still useable. The grouch in me is cursing the likes of James Patterson and his micro chapter style which everybody seems to except as a literary rule these days. I have chapters that are 20 pages and people complain, "Chapters are too long, you should make them short and move around a lot like, James Patterson." F JAMES PATTERSON. There, I said it. (He doesn't pop in from time to time, does he?)

So in short, I will be doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that. I do have the story in my head start to finish... don't need an outline to know who gets it and how. My issue right now is the order in which I tell the story and while I planned that out, it needed changing. Job number one is to FINISH... and those that say that this is a potential derail, are right. I could easily see myself posting this same thread a year from now, so FINISHING has to be the goal.

Angst sucks.

job · Mar 28, 2010

If you have never completed a manuscript, there is much to be said for soldiering through to the end.

But if you can't get writing done . . . it may be time to hack out what's wrong with the ms and start with what's left. Sometimes you have to toss out 50 or 100 pages if it strengthens the story.

Torrance · Mar 28, 2010

job said:
If you have never completed a manuscript, there is much to be said for soldiering through to the end.

But if you can't get writing done . . . it may be time to hack out what's wrong with the ms and start with what's left. Sometimes you have to toss out 50 or 100 pages if it strengthens the story.

There is nothing that I have declared off limits. Nothing is so good that it couldn't be better ... which is a way of thinking that likely has me in this predicament.

Sanoe SC · Mar 28, 2010

I have no idea what 200 pages is to you. For me, that's 100,000 words and a complete rough draft. For you, it could be 50,000 words and only 1/3 of your book.

How close are you to the end of the story? How much time will it take you to rewrite?

Caitlin Black · Mar 28, 2010

I'd say keep going... the problem you listed, being that the relationships take too long to grow, could be indicative that you're writing a longer story than you expected. If you keep going you may even have an epic-length story in the works, and as one who desperately wants to write an epic-length story, I'd say congratulations.

In another thread here someone brought up that in Fellowship of the Ring the fellowship doesn't even form until over halfway through the book... well, you have the four hobbits present in the first half more or less constantly, Gandalf for a good part of the beginning, and Aragorn for a lot of the time that Gandalf is missing. So that's a good 200 pages where the relationships build slowly, before the Fellowship is even formed.

So in regards to your problem, I'd just say perhaps you have a longer book than you intended...

My vote, worth 2 cents, is to keep going.

Raphee · Mar 28, 2010

Torrance said:
I think that the story could be told better from a different starting point. The really necessary relationships within the book take too long to develop. It would be easier to put the characters together and then to flesh out their connections. I start with action, develop backstory, but the coming together of the central characters is slow to happen.

This is the real issue you face. You have too much back story upfront, your MCs' turn up late, you want a new starting story point.

If everything other than these are okay, I see no problem. All you have to do is write the unfinished book that is still in your head. In Draft 2 get all these and other issues in correct order.

I'd say don't rewrite, but carry on till the end. Unless your have a major 'story' over haul to do. Changing start points, getting rid of backstory are not major impediments imo.

greatfish · Mar 29, 2010

From my experience editing short stories, if you get a 15 pager, the real story doesn't start until about page 4 or 5. The first 3 or 4 pages are guaranteed to be unnecessary backstory, setting up character traits or plot history the reader honestly has no need to know. It's obviously helpful for a writer to understand where his story is coming from so he knows where to direct it, but it's not typically useful for a reader to know about every traumatic experience in the MC's life. The reader is not the writer, they don't have any business directing the story or even guessing where it's headed. They'll discover where it's going as they read, and they'll make inferences into the life and history of the characters from the part of the story being told. They don't need the whole pie to know what flavor it is. One slice suffices.

My guess is with a novel, the effect is only magnified. Find out where your story stops being back story and starts being the story you wanted to tell, and start from there. You know who your characters are now, but there's no need to ruin the surprise for the reader in the first few chapters of your story. They'll know by the time they reach the end.

shaldna · Mar 29, 2010

Finish the book and then edit.

Aggy B. · Mar 29, 2010

There's a number of different ways to deal with a first draft that is not working.

The first is just to start over. But, as you said, that prospect can be daunting and even depressing.

Alternately, you can continue from where you left off, writing the new pages as if all the changes you think you should make to the beginning have been made. (This is my most common method. It helps if you make notes somewhere about what exactly you want to change because otherwise the draft can be a mite confusing to read back through. I will sometimes forget points that need changing unless I write them down.) Usually, I do this by putting in [brackets] at the end of the "old" material and writing a couple paragraphs (or pages) about what I want to change. For instance, I have one that during an earlier draft I suddenly realized I'd screwed up the POV. I was only four chapters in but going back to fix it at that point would have killed the momentum. I just put in [Rewrite beginning chapters to reflect <character's name> POV] After I'd reached "The End" I went back and fixed the beginning as indicated by the note.

Thirdly, you might take what you have written, highlight things that you think might be unnecessary in red, make your notes about how to change or cut up those first 200 pages, and then keep writing.

I would encourage you to try and write through to the end before you start making big changes. It's hard when you know there's a lot of work to be done later, but getting to the end of the story will give you a better perspective on the beginning and the alterations you want to make.

There is no "right" way to revise a first (and in-progress) draft. Although there may be a few that are easier than others. The best thing to do is to try stuff out. Maybe once you have a new first chapter you'll be able to skip over the stuff in the middle and finish the draft. Or maybe it'll give you the energy to cut out all the dead stuff and rewrite before you finish. If one thing isn't working, just try something else until you get it done.

Christyp · Mar 29, 2010

I tend to open the story in a whole new page and revise from there. That way, if I change something that I regret later, the original MS is still intact.

Dr.Gonzo · Mar 29, 2010

Christyp said:
I tend to open the story in a whole new page and revise from there. That way, if I change something that I regret later, the original MS is still intact.

I save each draft seperately.

Stephen King wrote about editing in On Writing. Remember, this is a craft - do whatever you have to do. King wrote about how a writer is like an archaeologist working on an excavation. The first draft you're setting the dig site, getting an idea of what you're uncovering and finding the basic shape. All subsequent drafts are used to brush away the dirt, revealing more of the bones a careful step at a time. I used to have real problems with editing until I read this. I savour the process now. I have glimmers of greatness in the first draft, but the real magic happens in cleaning it up, adding, subtracting, and allowing it to be what it is, what it was meant to be.

lkp · Mar 29, 2010

I would start over, rather than continuing to add to a story that I am certain is going in the wrong direction or has the wrong set up. Adding "slightly better" to "bad" would just depress me. Unless you have a habit of starting writing projects and never finishing, I don't think it is a bad idea to start from scratch from time to time. But I would see what you can salvage from the first draft as a starting point.

scarletpeaches · Mar 29, 2010

alex sultan said:
And my advice, though I'm sure it won't be appreciated, is to never start writing a story until it's fully outlined/fleshed out. I actually can't believe 90% of all writers do it the other way.

I seem to be doing all right so far, thank you very much. A month ago I sold a novel that wouldn't know an outline if MS Excel got its wang out and mushroom-stamped the male MC across his face. Just because you can't believe it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

lucidzfl · Mar 29, 2010

scarletpeaches said:
I seem to be doing all right so far, thank you very much. A month ago I sold a novel that wouldn't know an outline if MS Excel got its wang out and mushroom-stamped the male MC across his face. Just because you can't believe it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

I'm with her. I've rewritten the "outline" of my current wip like, 10 times now. To the point that its nearly useless.

The reason is, characters who I thought were useless, ended up becoming the savior of the story. Characters who I thought were great, I removed completely. The story, as it stands is COMPLETELY different from where I started.

I don't write my stories. I discover them.

alex sultan · Mar 29, 2010

Scarlet, dear, I said I can't believe so many people do it the hard way, not that I don't believe a word they say, obviously.

Also, is your novel in the erotic genre, by any chance?

Argh. Staring at 200 pages, considering rewrite...

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

present

Back to Writing

Fear the Death Ray

Fear the Death Ray

Back to Writing

Back from the dead

present

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

The Spice Must Flow

Wild one

In debt to AW

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

Not as sweet as you think

Lizard Lady

Wonderfully Irreverent

Back from the dead

Back to Writing