When do you know?

commasplicer · Mar 22, 2010

When do you know that you have what it takes?

Let me explain.

I hold a degree in marketing and didn't give English or writing a second glance. I breezed through it with a solid C+. But I've got the bug. I read about writing and grammar and style and blogs and about agents and publishers. I spend eight hours a day writing and reading and trying to improve. When do you know?

I feel like I've regressed. Any tips?

Thanks.

dgiharris · Mar 22, 2010

commasplicer said:
When do you know that you have what it takes? .

I guess the question depends. Takes for what?

Takes to write a story? Takes to get published? Takes to get published in a major Magazine?

Takes to write a book? Takes to get an agent? Takes to get a book published?

Takes to make five figures a year from your writing? Takes to make six figures a year? Seven figures?

I think the answer varies. But the simple answer is, i'd say you have what it takes when you are able to write a story from beginning to end and you are willing to constantly hone your skills (via crits, research, self improvement) and will rinse and repeat.

But first, you should answer my above questions and even rate them on 1-10 in terms of importance to you.

Mel...

commasplicer · Mar 23, 2010

Thanks, Mel.

What I meant to ask--and I've had way to much bourbon at this point--is...when do you know, I mean really know, that a sentence is pure, free of errors, perfect, and that your writing is true? For me, and I consider myself to be above the curve when it comes to intelligence, this is the hardest thing I've ever done. The most humbling and terrifying thing I've ever attempted to do.

The funny thing is, I love it. I love it more than I imagined possible. But that doesn't mean I'm not teetering on the edge of insanity--I am. But aren't we all.

sunandshadow · Mar 23, 2010

if you write something, then set it aside for a few months, then read it with fresh eyes, then you'll know. But obviously, you have to write it first.

Fallen · Mar 23, 2010

I know I went through the following stages:

Writing
Realising it's a crap writing
Editing
Realising iv'e done more crap writing
Obsessing over rules on writing
realising I'd written crap writing
Getting over the rules on writing
Enjoying writing for writing
Sending out to a publisher
obsessing over the reaction
obsessing over my work being crap
Sending out to more publishers, not taking comments personally, just constructively
Getting published
But always being obsessed my writing is crap.

I think it's just learning to accept you're always going to have doubts over whether you're good enough. The only solution I have is to write, let all the crap that comes afterwards (editting, hunting round for publishers...) be pushed to the back of your mind by doing something you love: writing.

I was very lucky the first time I sent a manuscript out, I hit on a very good small publisher. I got past his intial rejection stage, didn't make it past acceptance of the manuscript, but got such indepth communication with him it set me up for life with the whole publisher / author relationship in general.

But I still think my writing is crap. (See regression: it comes with the job) I have an hons degree in Linguistics. It took me a long time to learn that it isn't only knowledge you need. You still have to have creativity, and the majority of that comes when you've put away syntax, grammar, and stylistic books...

Best advice really is to just enjoy writing.

commasplicer · Mar 23, 2010

If one person, just one--not counting my mom or my girlfriend--found joy in something I wrote, all of the doubt, all of the aggravation, and all of the hard work would be worth it I think.

shaldna · Mar 23, 2010

I don't think you ever do, I think that element of self doubt is what makes writers try to improve themselves.

kaitie · Mar 23, 2010

Oooh ooh. This is where that fun article from Nathan's blog I just read comes into play. It was basically a psychological theory talking about how when you're not very good at something, you think you are because you don't know better, but as your skills improve and you become more aware, then you begin to think you aren't very good. It's possible that you're actually improving and thus becoming more aware of your shortcomings, and that's why you feel like you're digressing.

Anyway, what you studied in school doesn't mean a thing, really. You don't need a major or writing degree or anything of that sort to be a good writer. If you enjoy doing it and are willing to work hard, that's what matters most. As long as you have that and a willingness to keep trying and to keep learning, chances are you'll eventually get there.

Honestly, I'm not sure there's a point where any of us know. I think I'm pretty good, but I still am afraid that I'm not good enough. I'm always going to be my own worst critic, and I can always see when something probably isn't as good as it should be. I think you always wonder. I'm not sure even being published means anything because then you have to deal with bad reviews and what not. Anyway, "What it takes" in writing is more of a mindset than talent. Skills can be learned, but you have to have the mindset to want to learn.

Hope this helps.

hannah_92 · Mar 23, 2010

I'm not answering the question because I really don't know the answer. I do think that the most important thing about writing is being able to enjoy what you are doing. I absolutly hated writing throughout school but still got a B which is of no importance. Now I'm at college and not doing any English or writing classes, I've found that I'm able to enjoy writing and write what I want to write and not what I'm told to. That's what's important.

Wayne K · Mar 23, 2010

I've always known

commasplicer · Mar 23, 2010

Best response=Wayne K

Linda Adams · Mar 23, 2010

commasplicer said:
What I meant to ask--and I've had way to much bourbon at this point--is...when do you know, I mean really know, that a sentence is pure, free of errors, perfect, and that your writing is true?

The first part is never. I never get a sense that the sentences are pure and perfect. If I waited for that, I would never get a book done. Realistically, it can never happen--because some of what makes any writing or art great is the flaws. That's what makes them different and interesting.

Knowing when it's ready to send out ... well, that's different. I'm in the middle of that now. On December 31, I finished the book. I should have jumped right in and started writing the synopsis. Yet, I couldn't seem to get myself to do that. Eventually, I finally sat down at did it, and the synopsis revealed that the story had structural problems--I've had always had a problem with subplots not developing naturally, and it was really obvious they hadn't. So I had to figure out the problem (it was an organizational issue), then decide on three subplots that were staying in the story. I've been going through and fixing the subplot problems. Now the story feels different. I'm starting to get excited--and scared to death--to get it out there.

dpaterso · Mar 23, 2010

Tricky question deserves a tricky answer.

When you read something that you wrote, and get so involved in the story and characters that your inner editor goes into snooze mode and you simply enjoy what you're reading -- it may be time for you to leave the temple.

-Derek

Mara · Mar 23, 2010

I read a few books by the same author who always seemed a bit defensive, humble, and worried that he wasn't very good, that he hadn't been good in the past, or that he wasn't very good any more. He even retired because he thought he wasn't very good, and then published about twenty more things since then.

I believe his name was King, or something like that. Wrote horror books.

If one of the most successful writers of all time has those doubts, I'm sure most everyone else does too.

Sassy3421 · Mar 23, 2010

Mara said:
I read a few books by the same author who always seemed a bit defensive, humble, and worried that he wasn't very good, that he hadn't been good in the past, or that he wasn't very good any more. He even retired because he thought he wasn't very good, and then published about twenty more things since then.

I believe his name was King, or something like that. Wrote horror books.

If one of the most successful writers of all time has those doubts, I'm sure most everyone else does too.

What an amazing post Mara! how encouraging for all us to keep going even when the little voices tell us we have work to do

Danthia · Mar 23, 2010

I think there are stages when you think you're great, and stages when you think you're terrible. Since writing is subjective, even when you're "perfect" people still may not like it, and your "crap" might be loved.

For me, I wondered if I had what it took until I got an agent, because being accepted by a professional in the business meant that someone felt I had the skill to do this at a pro level. That gave me a huge boost of confidence.

However...

Even though I feel I now have the skills, I still doubt whether or not a book or a story is good enough. You may have what it takes, but a particular book may not.

But, to answer your question...how do you know if you have what it takes?

If you're determined to always strive to be better, pursue this dream until you get there no matter what people tell you or how long it takes, then yes, I think you have what it takes. Because until you "get there" you don't really know. And you won't "get there" unless you go for it fill tilt.

RJK · Mar 23, 2010

It's not difficult to write a perfect sentence. Writing a perfect sentence that conveys the information in your head to the reader is the difficult part. Placing that sentence next to another perfect sentence that will make the first one make sense is even more difficult.

Putting all these sentences together into a story doesn't mean a hill of beans if what you wrote doesn't entertain the reader. The first rule of writing is, it must be interesting. When readers have put your book on the best sellers' lists, and anxiously await your next story, you've made it.

C.M.C. · Mar 23, 2010

There probably isn't any way to know exactly when you have "it". It seems that a large number of people have a poor ability to judge their own work, which makes it difficult to propose any sort of guideline to help people make the assessment. What I would say is that you've made it to where you want to go when you can read your own work and be proud of what you've achieved. That's not to say it's destined to be published, but it means you can at least call yourself a writer without being ashamed.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 23, 2010

You know you have what it takes when you start selling your work.

To learn whether you can do this, just follow Heinlein's Rules. All of them.

HEINLEIN'S RULES FOR WRITING

1. You must write.
2. You must finish what you write.
3. You must refrain from rewriting, except to editorial order.
4. You must put the work on the market.
5. You must keep the work on the market until it is sold.

Read this to understand why these rules are vital: http://www.sfwriter.com/ow05.htm

Bubastes · Mar 23, 2010

Jamesaritchie said:
You know you have what it takes when you start selling your work.

Really? I've sold work and I still don't know if I have what it takes. When I read stuff I've sold in the past, my first reaction is, "They bought this?" I guess I've improved over the years, or at least I hope so.

scarletpeaches · Mar 23, 2010

Wayne K said:
I've always known

This man has balls, which is why I love him.

Me? I've always known in the sense of wanting it so badly it hurt.

But I knew for certain when I finished the first draft of my 'first' novel. (Inverted commas because I served my apprenticeship by writing numerous pieces of crap which I choose not to count any more).

Don't ask me how I knew. I was just certain it would sell. And it did.

Difficult to explain. If you'd asked me for proof when I typed 'The End', I wouldn't have been able to give you any. But it was the best book I could have written at that point in my life, and it was (is) definitely better than a lot of published novels I'd read.

Course, if the contract goes tits up I'm gonna look like ten kinds of idiot saying all that but I'll pick myself up and sell it - and my other novels - elsewhere.

backslashbaby · Mar 23, 2010

Put it out there to strangers and see if anyone is amused.

If they aren't, find out why and work on that.

Lather, rinse, repeat

Jamesaritchie · Mar 23, 2010

Bubastes said:
Really? I've sold work and I still don't know if I have what it takes. When I read stuff I've sold in the past, my first reaction is, "They bought this?" I guess I've improved over the years, or at least I hope so.

Marian Zimmer Bradley used to say that anyone who could sell one short story to a good magazine could earn a living as a full-time writer. I believe much the same thing. If you can do this, you have the writing talent, and the storytelling skills to succeed.

The question then becomes Do you have the determination, the work ethic, and the business sense to go along with the talent and skill?

Heinlein's Rules are not writing rules, they're business rules, and he called them such. I tink they're more proper written thusly, with rule six being Robert J. Sawyer's addition.

Heinlein's Modified Rules for Writing

You must write frequently.
You must finish what you write in a reasonable amount of time.
You must refrain from rewriting, except to editorial order.
You must put the work on the market.
You must keep the work on the market until it is sold.
You must start work on something else immediately.

CheyElizabeth · Mar 23, 2010

I didn't read all the comments, but, my answer is: It doesn't matter. So freaking what if one sentence, nay- several sentences in your writing don't have exactly perfect grammar?? The English language is ridiculous and full of grammar ''exceptions'' and I think the only thing that really matters is if your story is good enough to be read.

scarletpeaches · Mar 23, 2010

If you think the English language is ridiculous, why are you trying to shape its components into a readable story?

And I'll tell you this - any editor worth their salt will expect your manuscript to be polished before you sub it. Sure, typos creep in; it's inevitable, but taking the attitude 'it doesn't matter' lends itself to letting even more mistakes creep in - mistakes which it is your duty to correct.

You might think all that matters is that the story is readable but it's not your opinion that matters when it comes to publication - and if the story's full of errors it won't be readable. At least not to people like me who expect the author to do their job. If I have money to spend on one book and it's a choice between a lazily-produced one and something polished, guess which I'll choose?

When do you know?

commasplicer

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist

commasplicer

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Fallen

Stood at the coalface

commasplicer

shaldna

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

kaitie

With great power comes

hannah_92

Wayne K

commasplicer

Linda Adams

Soldier, Storyteller

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

Mara

Clever User Title

Sassy3421

Plotting murder..most of the time

Danthia

RJK

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

C.M.C.

Archetype

Jamesaritchie

Bubastes

bananaed

scarletpeaches

backslashbaby

*

Jamesaritchie

CheyElizabeth

My horn can pierce the sky!

scarletpeaches

When do you know?

Disgruntled Scientist

Impractical Fantasy Animal

Stood at the coalface

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

With great power comes

Soldier, Storyteller

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

Clever User Title

Plotting murder..most of the time

Danthia

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

Archetype

bananaed

~~~~*~~~~

My horn can pierce the sky!

*