Self-censorship

maxmordon · Mar 19, 2010

So, I am writing a scene where my MC is reading a pulp magazine about true crime and there are bits interpolated of the particularly gruesome story and the reactions of my MC about it and there's even a part he says he won't give us details considering that is better for sheer decency.

But here's the thing, I wrote a couple of paragraphs which I feel do fit in the story but I am worried since I find it just "too much". Of course, I will need the opinions of my betas (just hoping they don't brand me for what I write) but even when I feel it fits aestetically, it bothers me its content since I have felt I have crossed over some line.

What is your take about this? Do you have any limits? I am the type that follows that Oscar Wilde saying that there are no moral nor immoral books, just well-written and badly-written but nonetheless there are things I just find a bit too icky to write about.

third person · Mar 19, 2010

maxmordon said:
am the type that follows that Oscar Wilde saying that there are no moral nor immoral books, just well-written and badly-written.

*Ahem* Same (obviously, lol). You said it right there. Do what YOU feel is right for the story. You can't please everyone, nor should you strive to.

Gugland · Mar 19, 2010

Test your personal boundaries. Then edit.

Christyp · Mar 19, 2010

I can always tell when an author pushed the boundaries just for a reaction rather than what was fitting. It's like hearing your mom say the "F" word. It just doesn't sound right. Don't right it if it feels "icky" for you.

Nateskate · Mar 19, 2010

Wisdom says to first stick with your own personal convictions. Second, aiming for the broadest possible audience seems prudent.

Gore for instance. There are people that rabidly love gore. But there are more who are turned off by a certain level of gore.

People that love gore, who love well written stories, they may say it's a cop-out to infer too much, but they're not likely to toss the story away because there's not enough blood. Their imagination can fill in the blanks. Whereas, those who hate gore are more likely to shut the book entirely and write you off, even if the writing is great.

I may be old school, but Lord of the Rings was PG and people are still reading it. The Silmarillion infers severe torture, but it's not really spelled out. You just know that Hurin wasn't having no picnic in Morgoth's Lair. But insted of ripping things off, we know that Hurin was chained and forced to watch his family disintigrate, one member at a time, in cruel fashion.

maxmordon · Mar 19, 2010

Nateskate said:
Wisdom says to first stick with your own personal convictions. Second, aiming for the broadest possible audience seems prudent.

Gore for instance. There are people that rabidly love gore. But there are more who are turned off by a certain level of gore.

People that love gore, who love well written stories, they may say it's a cop-out to infer too much, but they're not likely to toss the story away because there's not enough blood. Their imagination can fill in the blanks. Whereas, those who hate gore are more likely to shut the book entirely and write you off, even if the writing is great.

I may be old school, but Lord of the Rings was PG and people are still reading it. The Silmarillion infers severe torture, but it's not really spelled out. You just know that Hurin wasn't having no picnic in Morgoth's Lair. But insted of ripping things off, we know that Hurin was chained and forced to watch his family disintigrate, one member at a time, in cruel fashion.

Exactly, this is what I was thinking about. But I also think it would be wise to show said text to some people, you know, compare opinions and whatnot.

Gugland · Mar 19, 2010

Ok, I guess I see what Christy & Nates are saying. But it sounds like you are tempted. So I say go with it. Then, if you're not comfortable with it, delete it and try a softer approach. They're only words, they can't hurt anyone 'til they're published.

Collectonian · Mar 20, 2010

If I have a limit, I have thus far not found it. But I'd say write what you're comfortable with. If you think something is "icky" or don't really want to write it, it will show to the readers.

seun · Mar 20, 2010

If I have any limits, I've yet to find them.

jana13k · Mar 20, 2010

You should always tell "the truth" when writing. Stephen King said if you're going to be a writer, the last thing you should worry about is polite society and what it thinks, and I agree. If YOU don't think it's too much for YOU to read, then why are you worrying what others will think? Write for yourself first - be true to the characters. Assuming the scene is not to sensationalize and serves no point for the story, why worry about the content.

Editors have said over and over "It's much easier for me to ask you to pull something back a bit than to tell you what to put in when it's not there. Because I can't know about what's not there."

lucidzfl · Mar 20, 2010

Nateskate said:
Wisdom says to first stick with your own personal convictions. Second, aiming for the broadest possible audience seems prudent.

Gore for instance. There are people that rabidly love gore. But there are more who are turned off by a certain level of gore.

People that love gore, who love well written stories, they may say it's a cop-out to infer too much, but they're not likely to toss the story away because there's not enough blood. Their imagination can fill in the blanks. Whereas, those who hate gore are more likely to shut the book entirely and write you off, even if the writing is great.

I may be old school, but Lord of the Rings was PG and people are still reading it. The Silmarillion infers severe torture, but it's not really spelled out. You just know that Hurin wasn't having no picnic in Morgoth's Lair. But insted of ripping things off, we know that Hurin was chained and forced to watch his family disintigrate, one member at a time, in cruel fashion.

Absolutely. "The scene was horrific. Like something out of a bottom of the barrel splat fest from the 70s"

Here's something I wrote last night. Its graphic without going overboard. (I think)

"Winstead stood, mouth agape. The smoke from the expended rounds still hung thick in the air and the putrid smell of penetrated bodies and evacuated bowels had begun making its presence known as well."

Del · Mar 20, 2010

I think if you are sure you don't want something you should remove it. If you puzzle over it then you want it, it just isn't written quite right.

I prefer the implied gore. What I see in my mind is far more graphic than anything anyone could write, mostly because it is mine. My mind won't let me imagine what disturbs me so I won't blame the writer for being too gross.

If your words repel a reader you've not only lost them for that scene, you have likely lost them for the story. Readers are so unforgiving.

But the real question is not is it too gory but does it further the story. There is no limit to the gore (or anything) that belongs.

Glenakin · Mar 20, 2010

Christyp said:
I can always tell when an author pushed the boundaries just for a reaction rather than what was fitting. It's like hearing your mom say the "F" word. It just doesn't sound right. Don't right it if it feels "icky" for you.

Er my friend's mum says the F-word, so I don't actually think that's "pushing the boundaries"

Kitti · Mar 20, 2010

When I had a scene I was afraid was going to be too much, I wrote several different drafts of it at what I imagined to be different movie ratings (G, PG, R, NA17) and then picked the one I felt most comfortable with. I still have those other drafts sitting around on my hard drive, if I ever change my mind, but I very much like the one I ended up choosing once I had all my options on the table.

Maxinquaye · Mar 20, 2010

Be truthful.

That's the hardest thing about writing. To be truthful. It can't be dissected, classified, analyzed - but it will be totally evident at a glance if you're not. For me, being truthful means being true to the characters. Do I have a character that would notice gore and stuff? Would s/he be transfixed by it, for horror or fascination? Would s/he be indifferent? Would s/he be callously laughing at it? Whatever the answers to those questions are, I will let that dictate how "graphic" i would be.

There's the key of how detailed you should be. Imagine a Hannibal Lecter that never thought about liver, a nice chianti and some fava beans.

DustyBooks · Mar 20, 2010

It also sounds like you should look at your characters' standards as well, if they're the ones reading and "censoring" the article you have snippets of.

ishtar'sgate · Mar 20, 2010

maxmordon said:
What is your take about this? Do you have any limits? I am the type that follows that Oscar Wilde saying that there are no moral nor immoral books, just well-written and badly-written but nonetheless there are things I just find a bit too icky to write about.

It can be difficult not to concern yourself about possible readers - like your mother.

Ultimately you have to be comfortable with what you write and it seems like you think it needs to be in there so let it stand. You're probably worrying for nothing anyway. I used to worry about what others might think of certain scenes but they were accepted without comment. As long as the scene fits the story and doesn't feel gratuitous I think you'll be fine.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 20, 2010

I have all sorts of limits, and I abide by them. Self-censorship is the only permissible form.

LuckyH · Mar 20, 2010

I’ve struggled with self-censorship from day one. I’m a ‘hard’ writer and write gritty stories in the crime thriller genre, mostly. I’m not afraid to tackle any subject, but try and stay away from God, all of the Gods; my self-censorship tells me those things are beyond my ken.

Although I try not to offend people on purpose, because I want them to buy my books, I do write for myself, mainly; and if some do-gooder gets upset when I write of anal sex, or the pain felt when a testicle is crushed, it doesn’t bother me.

(I was going to write that the do-gooder could go and fuck himself, but my self-censorship stopped me just in time).

Lady Ice · Mar 20, 2010

Push yourself but at the end of the day, if you don't feel comfortable writing it, the reader won't feel comfortable reading it and not just because of the content.

Don't sacrifice principles because you feel you have to.

shaldna · Mar 20, 2010

Write for your audience.

or perhaps that should be

write for yourself. edit for your audience

Nateskate · Mar 20, 2010

maxmordon said:
Exactly, this is what I was thinking about. But I also think it would be wise to show said text to some people, you know, compare opinions and whatnot.

Sure, it's wise to get other opinions when that's possible. Whenever my Betas were slow in replying about a chapter I realized I had a problem with that chapter. They seemed to sail through parts they loved. Sometimes I had to pry to get them to admit that, because Betas- if they like you and your work in general, begin to not want to hurt your feelings.

Nateskate · Mar 20, 2010

lucidzfl said:
Absolutely. "The scene was horrific. Like something out of a bottom of the barrel splat fest from the 70s"

Here's something I wrote last night. Its graphic without going overboard. (I think)

"Winstead stood, mouth agape. The smoke from the expended rounds still hung thick in the air and the putrid smell of penetrated bodies and evacuated bowels had begun making its presence known as well."

True. I think that when it comes to gore, it's Goldilocks, to much or too little, and just right. I loved one writer's wit and creativity, but one book about a serial killer just crossed some gross-out line for me. But that could just be me. I wanted to like the book and finish it, but you either love that stuff or get sickened by it.

In a sense, I think there's more leeway for a movie, like Silence for the Lambs, because it is all happening so fast that you just see the scene and work your way through it.. However, if you have it described in great detail it can make you gag.

Chris P · Mar 20, 2010

Write it. Push yourself. To paraphrase an obscure song: if you choose the easy way you can't lose, but lord knows you'll for sure never win.

Write it and come back to it later. See what you think then. Chances are you'll like some of it, which you'll keep, and toss the rest, which you won't miss.

goddessofthehunt · Mar 20, 2010

I think you should write it in the gruesome way first then go back and edit it, thinking of how your character would react. Would he be transfixed by it or just not want to know? Would he think it's kind of cool or really gross?

Self-censorship

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