Before Barbie and Ken

jclarkdawe · Mar 14, 2010

I am trying to repeat the mantra, "Beta readers are good. Beta readers are good. Beta readers are good." It's not working. And the worst of it is that my own stupidity is to blame. One of my beta's asked when Barbie was developed. You'd have thought I would have looked it up before using it.

I didn't.

Barbie came out in 1959, with Mattel acquiring the rights in 1964. Well, the character that would have been playing with Barbie and Ken would have been just on the short side.

Any ideas what to use as a substitute for a girl growing up in Wyoming during the 50s? Raggedy Ann and Andy? I need some sort of girlie item. This is being used in rebuttal to her being a tomboy.

Thanks for any help.

Jim Clark-Dawe

spike · Mar 14, 2010

If they were poor, she would have had homemade rag dolls, or corn husk dolls (if corn is a local crop).

If they had money, probably a Ginny type doll, or a porcelain doll.

alleycat · Mar 14, 2010

Raggedy Ann sounds like a good option to me.

Girls of an even older time used to have China dolls. And if the setting it rural, you could have something like corn husk dolls.

Also, a further rebuttal would be the girl wearing petticoats to church on Sundays. Young girls back then used to wear several petticoats so their dress would "poof" out (sorry, I don't know the correct term for it). Or maybe a pink ribbon in her hair.

ETA: I was typing while spike was posting; I didn't mean to duplicate the reply.

Duncan J Macdonald · Mar 14, 2010

jclarkdawe said:
I am trying to repeat the mantra, "Beta readers are good. Beta readers are good. Beta readers are good." It's not working. And the worst of it is that my own stupidity is to blame. One of my beta's asked when Barbie was developed. You'd have thought I would have looked it up before using it.

I didn't.

Barbie came out in 1959, with Mattel acquiring the rights in 1964. Well, the character that would have been playing with Barbie and Ken would have been just on the short side.

Any ideas what to use as a substitute for a girl growing up in Wyoming during the 50s? Raggedy Ann and Andy? I need some sort of girlie item. This is being used in rebuttal to her being a tomboy.

Thanks for any help.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Try Toni

1949-1953 Toni dolls at the bottom of the page.

alleycat · Mar 14, 2010

There's also Betsy Wetsy, which came out in 1934 (I thought she was older than Barbie, but I had to Google it).

Puma · Mar 14, 2010

Ginny Dolls, Shirley Temple Dolls, Toni Dolls (that's of the Toni permanent fame. I got a Toni doll about 1953 - 1955 so it should definitely work for you.) Puma

TheIT · Mar 14, 2010

Not sure of the era, but maybe Holly Hobbie (sp?) dolls? I had one when I was a little girl in the 70's. It was a simple rag doll with blond braids.

frimble3 · Mar 14, 2010

Porcelain dolls were being superceded by plastics in the '50's, so if your little girl has one, it would probably be a hand-me-down. Raggedy Ann has been around since the 1910's in various incarnations, also a likely choice. A home-made doll is more personal.
Holly Hobbie is from the '70's although made in a 'simple' style.
If you want a 'name-brand' doll, I'd go with "Ginny" or "Toni", 8" little girls with separate clothes, a more wholesome Barbie. Keep in mind that there were knock-offs and variations of all the popular dolls, so if you wanted, you could describe a no-name doll, and have her look at dolls in the toy-store window. And, in all eras, tons of 'baby' dolls, as opposed to 'little girl' dolls.

Keyan · Mar 15, 2010

Baby dolls, definitely.

Saran-haired dolls. I think they came in in the early 1950s, and were a big deal because you could wash the doll's hair. (It was nylon and rooted in the plastic scalp.) Before that, they had wigs that were glued on and became pretty frowzy if the doll was played with a lot. Ebay has vintage ads for dolls like "Sweet Sue" ('Sweet Sue has Saran hair.... you can wash it, wave it, comb it, curl it! Sweet Sue She Walks') and Nanette and Tiny Tears. Oh, and bride dolls. Somewhat the same role as Princess dolls have now.

(Ebay has some useful stuff there, try searching on "saran" and "doll" and you'll see pictures.)

http://shop.ebay.com/sis.html?_kw=Revlon+Doll+Sweet+Sue+Doll+Saran+Hair+1950's+Doll+Vinyl+Doll

Barbie was originally targeted at older girls, who had "outgrown" dolls. I think maybe 12-15 or so.

Tsu Dho Nimh · Mar 15, 2010

http://collectdolls.about.com/od/dollsofthe1950s/Dolls_of_the_1950s.htm

1950s ... I was given various dolls that looked like babies or young girls (no boobs!) Fake, combable hair,

Another good link:
http://dollreference.com/

johnnysannie · Mar 16, 2010

Baby dolls, Betsy McCall, and don't forget paper dolls. Before the Barbie and Ken era - even after - little girls played with paper dolls. Some were based on characters from books, some just paper dolls to dress up and play with.

I'm a late boomer, born in 1961 and I played with lots more paper dolls than I did Barbies. When I didn't have paper dolls - my mom usually got me a new "set" in either a booklet or small box each summer - I made my own by cutting out models from the Sears and Penney's catalogs.

Keyan · Mar 16, 2010

johnnysannie said:
Baby dolls, Betsy McCall, and don't forget paper dolls. Before the Barbie and Ken era - even after - little girls played with paper dolls. Some were based on characters from books, some just paper dolls to dress up and play with.

I'm a late boomer, born in 1961 and I played with lots more paper dolls than I did Barbies. When I didn't have paper dolls - my mom usually got me a new "set" in either a booklet or small box each summer - I made my own by cutting out models from the Sears and Penney's catalogs.

Oh yes, absolutely, paper dolls!

Fern · Mar 16, 2010

Poor Pitiful Pearl would have been around 1958 or so. I had a stuffed monkey about that time, looked like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Monkey-Rubber-faced-stuffed-vintage-doll-1950s-/230441230707

Sock monkies would have been popular, especially in households without a lot of money.

Like the others mentioned, paper dolls were a big thing with the kids. We couldn't wait to get our hands on the McCall's magazines to get the paper dolls out.

Teddy Bears too.

Fern · Mar 16, 2010

I need some sort of girlie item. This is being used in rebuttal to her being a tomboy.

Well, I missed that portion of your post - monkeys and bears probably do not fit the bill.
Ginny dolls would be more on the girlie side. Check out Madame Alexander and Horsman dolls. I think those are the two brands I remember my mom looking for in that timeline.

StephanieFox · Mar 16, 2010

This is what I had as a little girl growing up in Iowa in the 1950s. Most dolls available were baby dolls.

http://www.dollinfo.com/pitifulpearl.htm

http://www.dollinfo.com/ibetwetsy.htm

http://www.dollinfo.com/featuredollwin01.htm

http://www.rubylane.com/shops/onceagainantiques/item/AD-00528?gbase=1
(These had skin that felt almost real.)

This might tell you more:
http://www.loti.com/fifties_toys/Dolls_of_the_50s.htm

No one I knew had porcelain dolls or corn-cob dolls, although I did read about these dolls in history books. They were already antiques. I had a Raggedy Ann doll, but that stayed on my shelf as a decoration most of the time.

I didn't play with these all that much since I had access to a real live pony on a friend's farm. I was more likely to play cowboys and cowgirls than with baby dolls. I had a lot of stuffed animals, mostly dogs, and some plastic horses.

StephanieFox · Mar 16, 2010

alleycat said:
Raggedy Ann sounds like a good option to me.

Girls of an even older time used to have China dolls. And if the setting it rural, you could have something like corn husk dolls.

Also, a further rebuttal would be the girl wearing petticoats to church on Sundays. Young girls back then used to wear several petticoats so their dress would "poof" out (sorry, I don't know the correct term for it). Or maybe a pink ribbon in her hair.

ETA: I was typing while spike was posting; I didn't mean to duplicate the reply.

In the 1950s, I didn't 'wear several petticoats.' I wore a dress with a poofy skirt and a poofy slip underneath. I also wore white gloves and a hat when going to an event (like church, synagogue, etc.) But, I really don't think that the cornhusk doll is gonna work. I mean, we had heard about pioneer girls having these and I think we did them as a Girl Scout project when studying American Indians and the pioneers. But I was not a pioneer girl. Really, I'm not that old.

This is the kind of thing I wore.
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=40257142

johnnysannie · Mar 16, 2010

StephanieFox said:
In the 1950s, I didn't 'wear several petticoats.' I wore a dress with a poofy skirt and a poofy slip underneath. I also wore white gloves and a hat when going to an event (like church, synagogue, etc.) But, I really don't think that the cornhusk doll is gonna work. I mean, we had heard about pioneer girls having these and I think we did them as a Girl Scout project when studying American Indians and the pioneers. But I was not a pioneer girl. Really, I'm not that old.

This is the kind of thing I wore.
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=40257142

I agree; no cornhusk dolls unless it was a novelty picked up in a souvenir shop somewhere.

We called those poufy skirts "crinolines" but it was really like a half slip with the poufy stuff.

Ditto on the white gloves/hat thing for church events or formal occasions.

It really wasn't quite the dark ages! We're Boomers, not Laura Ingalls Wilder!

rhymegirl · Mar 16, 2010

johnnysannie said:
Baby dolls, Betsy McCall, and don't forget paper dolls. Before the Barbie and Ken era - even after - little girls played with paper dolls. Some were based on characters from books, some just paper dolls to dress up and play with.

I'm a late boomer, born in 1961 and I played with lots more paper dolls than I did Barbies. When I didn't have paper dolls - my mom usually got me a new "set" in either a booklet or small box each summer - I made my own by cutting out models from the Sears and Penney's catalogs.

I agree about the paper dolls. I was born in the mid-50s. We didn't have a lot of money so couldn't afford many real dolls. I know I had a Raggedy Ann doll.

DeleyanLee · Mar 16, 2010

OK, I was talking to my mom, who was a girl in the 1940's.

She played a LOT with cut-out dolls of the Dionne quintuplets (they were a BIG deal then) and cut-out dolls of Shirley Temple, along with the occasional plastic Shirley Temple dolls. (Plastic is really expensive and rare until the late 40's because of the war effort.) Often, you'd get the base doll in one book and then there were "expansion wardrobes" in subsequent books that could be bought.

When I was a child in the 1960's, paper dolls were still popular. I remember playing with them and, actually, still have some of them.

Synonym · Mar 16, 2010

Kewpie dolls were around, nearly everywhere. And it wouldn't be unheard of for a child to play with her mother's old dolls. I did.

StephanieFox · Mar 16, 2010

We had that new-fangled E-lec-tricity so we had one o' them radios with pictures. I watched this:
Winky Dink And You 1953 – 1957
Get out your Winky Dink kit, because it’s time for Winky Dink And You—a show you didn’t just watch . . . you actually got to play! Winky Dink And You was the first interactive television show, allowing children the opportunity to be a part of the show by placing a clear plastic “magic window” on the television and drawing on it with crayons to save the animated stick figure Winky Dink from trouble.

Keyan · Mar 16, 2010

DeleyanLee said:
OK, I was talking to my mom, who was a girl in the 1940's.

She played a LOT with cut-out dolls of the Dionne quintuplets (they were a BIG deal then) and cut-out dolls of Shirley Temple, along with the occasional plastic Shirley Temple dolls. (Plastic is really expensive and rare until the late 40's because of the war effort.) Often, you'd get the base doll in one book and then there were "expansion wardrobes" in subsequent books that could be bought.

When I was a child in the 1960's, paper dolls were still popular. I remember playing with them and, actually, still have some of them.

Yeah, my Mom had a Shirley Temple doll, too. I think that's one generation earlier than what Jim's looking for.

johnnysannie · Mar 17, 2010

Synonym said:
Kewpie dolls were around, nearly everywhere. And it wouldn't be unheard of for a child to play with her mother's old dolls. I did.

I did, too.

And overall, most kids did not have anything approaching the number of toys that kids today have.

I had a few dolls, maybe two stuffed animals, and little things like metal play dish sets. Most of my "play dishes" were stuff my Granny washed and saved for me, like the metal cream cheese containers, old Dairy Queen plastic dishes, margarine tubs and the like, all kept in a former potato bag of string.

jeseymour · Mar 17, 2010

Hey - what's wrong with being a tomboy? Okay, I'm younger than your character, but the only dolls I played with were my Johnny West and his horses. I never owned a Barbie. Not all girls are the same.

DeleyanLee · Mar 17, 2010

Keyan said:
Yeah, my Mom had a Shirley Temple doll, too. I think that's one generation earlier than what Jim's looking for.

My half-sister, born in 1953 with a different mom, had one too. I was born in 1960 and got one. Shirley was universal for several decades.

Could also be where we lived (the Midwest) that kept the affection for her. Don't know.

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