Having Issues With Research

Iceberg · Mar 13, 2010

Okay, so I need to know about...

Shadow walkers... lol I can't anything! People write about them in their own novels, but I can't seem to learn more about the subject. Should I just make it up to what I think it should be? Probably a rookie question.

PGK · Mar 13, 2010

A google search brings up a long list of various "Shadow Walker" related entries. Which one do you mean? Or what other than the google entries are you asking about?

Iceberg · Mar 13, 2010

weell, when I do a search it brings up the game. I'd like to know what they are and what they do.

Birol · Mar 13, 2010

Um... I don' t know what game you're talking about, but they're probably an invention of the game's creator. If you're looking to use the term in your writing, they would be and do what you said.

backslashbaby · Mar 13, 2010

Do you mean Native American Shadow Walkers? If so, please don't make up what they do

Iceberg · Mar 13, 2010

that's the thing... I don't know. I guess I will take a different direction.

backslashbaby · Mar 13, 2010

Just take what you found interesting in others' writings and make up your own thing, with features you choose, and with a name you'd like to give it. That's what I'd do.

Or research the real thing, which is hard [!], and it's likely more religious than you're thinking

Feathers · Mar 13, 2010

I would probably try using better search terms. Maybe "ancient shadow walkers" or "native american shadow walkers." Read through some articles, find terms related to the kind of shadow walkers you're looking for, and add those to your search.

Hope that helps

benbradley · Mar 13, 2010

Feathers said:
I would probably try using better search terms. Maybe "ancient shadow walkers" or "native american shadow walkers." Read through some articles, find terms related to the kind of shadow walkers you're looking for, and add those to your search.

Hope that helps

Yes, or American Indian shadow walkers, or however else it might be worded.

Driving a search engine is an art. I feel I "know" how to do it, but it's a lot harder to describe than to do.

FalconStorm · Mar 13, 2010

I did a little searching on Google and you may have to take this research to the actual library. If the internet has info on it, it may be hard to find, but you may be able to find some actual books about it. Hope that helps.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 14, 2010

In what context and in what tradition did you find the term?

Lots of cultures have "shadow walkers," including the Anglo Saxons (Grendel in Beowulf, for example, is a sceadugenga), New Zealand, Germany, various Native Americans, Mongolians, and others. They differ in many ways.

For research in general, I usually suggest going to the children's room of your local library and starting there, subject in this case "World Folklore." You'll get an idea of the over-all material, and some specific terms to search for when you go to the main library. Take notes. Check bibliographies.

Albannach · Mar 14, 2010

I see this advice given pretty often, Uncle Jim, and may I emphasise that for any historical novel this is the barest starting place and children's books so often present such a limited, cleaned up and inadequate look at history (ok, often highly INACCURATE to be honest) that this suggestion tends to make me shudder. People who use this advice so often end up with the novels with all of the things I have ranted about in other threads about poor historical research. If someone is writing about Native American Shadow Walkers they need to do some in-depth research.

I'm sure you didn't mean otherwise and you did say "start there". But far too many people also END there.

Iceberg · Mar 14, 2010

I found shadow walkers in books with vampires and werewolves...that kind of stuff. None of it went off any religious theme. None of it mentioned Native American that is why I didn't start there. I have seen things about games and people including it in books I have not read. But I would much rather NOT have any religious stuff in my writing mostly because I think it's really out of my area.

When I added the Native American part to my search some more stuff popped up but only the name was mentioned. I am 50/50 on this because I really want to use it but then I don't want to offend those who know what they really are if they are truly Native American.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 14, 2010

Albannach said:
I'm sure you didn't mean otherwise and you did say "start there". But far too many people also END there.

And far too many people write cruddy books.

Here's the full version of the method, as given in Learn Writing with Uncle Jim:

When you're getting set to write a story set in a particular time or place, you need to become an Instant Expert on the subject. Here's what you do. Go to the Children's Room in your local library and read a couple of recent kids' books on the subject. That'll get you up to speed, give you an idea of the shape of the material you'll need, and an introduction to the terms and people.

Now go to the adult section, and start reading the adult books on the subject. Start with the big survey books. The Oxford Book of _____ for example. Read only the chapters you need. It's easy to get distracted. Take notes.

Then go to the specialty books. Read the parts that you need (and you will know which parts those are from your previous reading), paying attention to the footnotes (the footnotes are where learned professors float their crackpot theories, or bitch about other learned professors -- footnotes are great fun). Take more notes.

You are now sufficiently an expert on your subject to write your novel. When you've got a decent draft of your novel, take it to someone who genuinely is an expert on the subject to read it and comment on it. Many academics are lonely folks, only too eager to talk with you. Cops and firefighters and emergency nurses love to talk with writers. Coroners will make time in their day to read your book and comment on it. Honest. You'll mention them in the acknowledgments in the front of the book and that's all the reward they want.

shaldna · Mar 14, 2010

It sounds like you are more entracned by teh name than the thing. Research.

Iceberg · Mar 14, 2010

It is something new to learn about in the what I thought was in the supernatural world. What I have learned is in other books but they don't give many details because it's mostly a brief mention. Like:

1. Wrap their body in shadows
2. Speed
3. Stength

That about sums it up but they can easily compare to a vampire. So knowing the difference would be good.

But so far none of it is matching up so the author probably made it up... I guess.

Thanks for the help anyway

ccbridges · Mar 14, 2010

I did a quick search on google for "shadow walkers" vampires folklore -game -clan (the latter to get rid of search results that had to do with the game.)

I found this book listed on good reads and Amazon. It won an award for scholarship in mythology and folklore and sounds like the kind of thing you might want to look at if you're interesting in knowing more about this concept.

Matera the Mad · Mar 14, 2010

I immediately think of Tony Hillerman. Then I stumble across Michael Walters' blog. Navajo and Mongolian shadow walkers in the same breath, and something I might want to read.

You have to follow forks in a search road to find the best stuff.

Iceberg · Mar 14, 2010

ccbridges said:
I did a quick search on google for "shadow walkers" vampires folklore -game -clan (the latter to get rid of search results that had to do with the game.)

I found this book listed on good reads and Amazon. It won an award for scholarship in mythology and folklore and sounds like the kind of thing you might want to look at if you're interesting in knowing more about this concept.

Thanks!

NeuroFizz · Mar 14, 2010

Also do a google search on Shadowmancy.

third person · Mar 15, 2010

To be honest, in this age of the internet, shoddy research is inexcusable. It should never be the be-all-end-all source of information, but it's invaluable in learning where to go to get more. If you're serious about your WIP, you'll put in the time needed to research properly. There was no high-speed internet when I started on my path as a teen, and that was only ten and some years ago. I spent entire days at Barnes & Noble with a stack of books at a table, taking notes. Hell, back in high school I'd do a day of research for short story assignments for English class.

I established my discipline then, and I hope you'll establish yours now by sticking with your search until you've found exactly what you're looking for. The experience will make subsequent research a piece of piss.

shaldna · Mar 15, 2010

From the sounds of it the 'Shadow Walkers' you are talking about probably aren't based in mythology if you have no idea what they are through reading the books.

It sounds like it could be just a random name applied to a group of individuals, like 'Peacekeepers' or 'Special Forces'

Greeble · Mar 15, 2010

backslashbaby said:
Do you mean Native American Shadow Walkers? If so, please don't make up what they do

Actually: do make it up. It's much more fun.

backslashbaby · Mar 15, 2010

Greeble said:
Actually: do make it up. It's much more fun.

I wasn't aware of how widespread the term was, so it's not a big deal. But people who know very little about NA stuff are always making up stories using the scantest of facts. It gets old after a while

Pick on the Greeks or Romans, maybe. I heard they invaded Asia on tricycles. Run with that

shaldna · Mar 15, 2010

backslashbaby said:
I wasn't aware of how widespread the term was, so it's not a big deal. But people who know very little about NA stuff are always making up stories using the scantest of facts. It gets old after a while Pick on the Greeks or Romans, maybe. I heard they invaded Asia on tricycles. Run with that

I hate it when people don't research, it really grates on me when I read something in a book and I can tell that the author hasn't bothered to check facts.

Having Issues With Research

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