Help! I need to re-write my YA as an MG!

Some that might be worth looking at:

Pippi Longstocking

The Narnia books

The Theodosia books

TrixieLox said:

Ah man. My wonderful friend is reading my YA fantasy and she’s just hit on something that was bugging me as I write it – it’d be better as a middle grade book (and in third person – currently in first). I think she might be right.

I’m vaguely familiar with MG (well, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson) but nothing like how familiar I am with YA. Plus I haven't read any with a female protag (apart from The Hunger Games but different genre).

First, can anyone recommend any MG fantasies with a female protagonist (they all seem boy-focuses). Second, how’s the MG market doing among girl readers? YA seems to be hot hot hot but not to sure about MG (and before you say ‘why do you care?’ I have a commercial head, I can’t help it) and c) anyone out there re-written their YA into a MG? How’d it go? Any tips?

How does one re-write a YA into an MG book?

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Try Tamora Pearce Song of the Lioness books, the first two were definately more MG than YA.

Oh, Shaldna beat me to it. I was going to recommend those as well.
You could also try the Children of the Lamp series by P.B. Kerr. The first book is titled The Akhenaten Adventure

At the risk of being self promoting... The Shifter.

And the MG market is just fine among girl readers. I've found I get about a 60/40% girl/boy ratio at my signings and events. And boys will read a girl protag if A) she's cool, and B) there's a boy in the book that they can relate to.

When I wrote, The Shifter, it was for the YA crowd. The characters were a little older and there were a few sexier things in there. But every editor thought it was better suited to MG instead, so after I sold it, we just tweaked the ages and took a few minor details out. The story never changed.

So while you say you want to re-write it as MG, you might take a moment and check to see if what you have is closer to MG than you realize. All I did was lower my protag's age to 15 vs 17, change her best friend's job to something a little less risque, and take out a few "sexual tension" moments. Very, very little changed, and it was all surface stuff, nothing story-based. Oh, it's also first person, with a girl protag, so you don't need to do third for MG. Just use whatever POV works for the story.

My editor said this was the basic difference between the two:

MG romance is sweeter and more innocent, YA romance is sexier and more realistic
So if you have any hot and heavy romance or longing lustful glances, tweak those to sweeter, more innocent crush type emotions.

MG plots are a little less complex, YA us closer to adult-style plots (note, neither are simple or basic by any means, just fewer subplots in MG vs YA)
So if you have a ton of complicated subplots, trim down to a few that work well with your main conflict.

MG ages are younger (13 is probably average, though that varies), YA ages are older (high school age)
So adjust your ages.

MG rarely has swear words, YA swears as needed. (you can go some swearing in MG, but unless it's necessary, you can usually skip it) I think I have one hell and one damn in Shifter, and none at all in the other two.
So if you use a lot of swear words, cut them out.

There are probably others, but that's all I can think of at the moment. Unless you have your characters knocking back ales and falling into bed or having heavy make out sessions, you might be closer to MG than you think.

shaldna said:

Try Tamora Pearce Song of the Lioness books, the first two were definately more MG than YA.

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Yes and no. They start out MG, but Alana ends up in bed with a love interest by the end of the first or second book if I remember right. I was surprised at the difference between the start and end of that book, because she goes from like age 10 to 18.

Great series though, so still read it.

I think MG girls would definitely go for Fantasy with a female protag. HP and LT were read by just as many girls as boys, I think.

These aren't straight fantasy, but have fantastical elements:
The City of Ember series, not really fantasy, more speculative.
Savvy, by Ingrid Law
Fly by Night, or anything by Frances Hardinge
Fablehaven series - a brother/sister combo
Incarceron (might be YA?) by Catherine Fisher. I also think Hunger Games is YA
Horns and Wrinkles
Alex and the Ironic Gentleman

Thanks for the info, Janice! I've been wondering about MG myself. I have a novel I wrote many,many years ago that I've thought about tweaking. It was set in high school, but because of the innocence of the romance, situations, etc, I'm thinking I could bring it down to middle school, make the character 13,not 15,etc.

This is a great list to go by! THANKS!

ETA:And what's the usual word count for MG?

MG word count is usually somewhere between 20-40k though I'd imagine with fantasy it could be longer. You have the outlier cases like HP and LT which were both around 77k for the first book.

Word count-My first came in at about 45K. My contract for the next one is at 50K.

Sigh. Shameless self promotion:

Alex and the Ironic Gentleman (my first book) is MG and features a female protagonist. Now I had always intended it to be such, so I can't speak to changing YA to MG, but I think Danthia pretty much covered it. Remember, aside from the romantic angle, you can get away with a lot in MG. I have a torture scene and a lot of death in mine and the kids just eat it up.

As far as marketing goes, actually these days editors are desperately seeking MG. The YA market has become so saturated. I've been hearing about it all over the place. Trust me, MG right now, is totally the way to go .

Sorry to derail the thread for a sec but Toothpaste, I have Timothy and the Dragon's Gate waiting to be read right now. I'm quite looking forward to it! Just have to get this dang trial brief finished.

Toothpaste said:

As far as marketing goes, actually these days editors are desperately seeking MG. The YA market has become so saturated. I've been hearing about it all over the place. Trust me, MG right now, is totally the way to go .

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oooh, very encouraging, as my WIP is MG.

One thing I would add to Danthia's very nice list of distinctions:

There's also a quality of immediacy in MG. It has to do with how people of different ages perceive time. Kids live in the here-and-now. Teens live in the near future. Adults reflect on the past.

So in MG, the action is immediate. The consequences are immediate. A kid may grow up a bit over the course of a book, but the main focus is on this problem right here in front of us, and what we are going to do about it. NOW.

Teens are always a little bit aware that Real Life is just around the corner. So the consequences of today's action might not be felt until next year, or five years from now. There is a broader perspective. And often an undercurrent of impatience. Even if I solve this problem now, there's still the bigger issue of What will I be when I'm grown-up and on my own? What do I want out of life? Who am I, really? An MG kid is who he/she is; a YA kid is a question mark.

Adults have already made a few mistakes. So today's problem that I have to solve is usually connected to something that I did in the past. Who I have become may not be the person I dreamed of becoming when I was younger.

So as you look at rewriting to make it truly MG, I would look at the sense of urgency and the way you use time in general.

JudScotKev said:

One thing I would add to Danthia's very nice list of distinctions:

There's also a quality of immediacy in MG. It has to do with how people of different ages perceive time. Kids live in the here-and-now. Teens live in the near future. Adults reflect on the past.

So in MG, the action is immediate. The consequences are immediate. A kid may grow up a bit over the course of a book, but the main focus is on this problem right here in front of us, and what we are going to do about it. NOW.

Teens are always a little bit aware that Real Life is just around the corner. So the consequences of today's action might not be felt until next year, or five years from now. There is a broader perspective. And often an undercurrent of impatience. Even if I solve this problem now, there's still the bigger issue of What will I be when I'm grown-up and on my own? What do I want out of life? Who am I, really? An MG kid is who he/she is; a YA kid is a question mark.

Adults have already made a few mistakes. So today's problem that I have to solve is usually connected to something that I did in the past. Who I have become may not be the person I dreamed of becoming when I was younger.

So as you look at rewriting to make it truly MG, I would look at the sense of urgency and the way you use time in general.

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Great post and very true. Although I've always been vaguely aware of the urgency in MG, I've never heard it explained so clearly.

Already had some great posts, but I didn't see my favorite MG fantasy series:

Skulduggery Pleasant, by Derek Landy.

Kickass female characters and a fantastic voice.

~suki

Check out Meg Cabot. She writes both YA and MG (and adult/cross-over), so you might look at one of each and get an idea of how she handles both

TrixieLox said:

Thanks everyone, really useful. And Danthia, wow, great post. Have had my eye on The Shifter as saw some tweets about it so will go buy it today! I think my friend was pretty much saying my book's more MG then YA so I was probably a bit dramatic in my post. So yeah, probably not a massive re-write.

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Thanks! I hope you like it.

MG word count isn't that different form YA these days. 40-70K is probably a good range, though you will see higher. (my agent recommended staying under 70K when I was tweaking) Shifter was 63K I think, when it sold and ended up 72K on publication. Book 2 is about that size as well, though book three is looking like it'll be closer to 80K. But that's only half done, so who knows.

As I've heard it described, MG characters are looking to find their place in the family, YA characters are looking to find their place in the world.

timp67 said:

As I've heard it described, MG characters are looking to find their place in the family, YA characters are looking to find their place in the world.

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That's interesting. Certainly a common MG theme is the discovery that your parents are not what you thought they were, whether it's something fantastical like learning you're really the son of Poseidon, or something subtle like discovering your parents can make mistakes, too.