I Hate Fate

Starting a new topic because I don't want to derail the "perfect hero" one... Anyone else feel this way?

Perhaps the MOST annoying trope to me is the notion that "fate always wins," especially when characters know they're heading towards a specific undesirable destiny and are portrayed as being completely powerless to do anything about it. Okay, maybe they try and fail which is okay, but what I really don't like is when they're shown as having absolutely no chance to escape their destiny. Having the outcome set in stone is lame... and when it involves particular details that the people can't avoid no matter what (as it often does), it also usually seems contrived to me.

Also, "Character X is destined to kill/defeat Character Y" is a big turnoff. Really? So no matter how many mistakes X makes or how little effort they put in, they would win in the end because "fate" demands it? That seems kind of unfair even if the destined killer is the nicest guy in the world and the victim the Dark Lord himself. And, has potential to make the journey feel a lot more pointless...

Or if X is Y's mother and would never willingly harm her child, and gets so scared by the prophecy she becomes a total pacifist who is sworn never to take a life at all no matter what the reason... fate will find some way to screw her over and make her kill her offspring?? Or if she commits suicide (come on, it should be doable if she's determined in most cases), will "fate" bring her back to life? Or will one of her bones be used to stab her child and that is considered "her" killing him? (Personally I wouldn't count that as her since she's dead and it's not under her own power anymore, but it seems like one of the contrived outcomes used to make fate "win.")

I know that not every author who uses fate does it this way, and that many prophecies are depicted as "possibilities" or measures of hope nowadays. But that particular kind of heavy-handed portrayal of fate just makes me cringe... the best justification that I can come up with is to think of fate as God, but then, wouldn't that make it Deus Ex Machina? Also, fate as portrayed this way seems to be >God, at least in that God isn't usually shown setting things up so directly/specifically. Maybe this type of fate is more of an elder evil, rather than God... thoughts?

I do use prophecies in my own work sometimes, but they're never unbreakable, and are actually broken more oftentimes than not. In my fiction, as I posted in the other thread, determination/intelligence/willpower/badassness often>fate.

I don't really mind fate as a discernible force in the world, I'm just tired of it being an infallible one.

Another thought: if the characters *know* they are fated to do something, then the more resolved to go against it they are, the more contrived it will likely be for them to still do it. For example the person destined to kill their own child or doom their entire people, if they would rather die than do that, how exactly can "fate" stop them from killing themselves? Okay, maybe make them immortal or keep them completely restrained unable to hurt themselves right up until the very moment of their destined act... both of which are pretty extreme and would probably look contrived. What I'm trying to say is, the all-powerfulness of fate as typically depicted just doesn't make much sense to me. Unless fate actually is an unusually proactive God with a capital G (though that would often mean a rather cruel and evil God), why shouldn't characters who know of their destiny be able to defy it? IMO known prophecies at least should be breakable with enough resolve, especially on the part of a central player...

Vomaxx said:

The appearance of the word "prophecy" in any book description means I will not further look at the book. "Dark Lord" and "destiny" have the same effect.

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Hmm... I hate the usual "inescapable" portrayal of fate too, but do you just assume any story that involves fate will depict it that way? A book with characters who fight against fate and win would certainly appeal to me, mainly because of my disdain of *omnipotent* fate. In my preferred mythos, if fate ordains you to do something you don't want, it becomes just another enemy to conquer!

Going a bit off topic, I assume by "Dark Lord" you mean the trope of an all-powerful embodiment of evil who requires a specific plot device to defeat and not for example some relatively normal (though more powerful than average) evil guy who just declares himself "The Dark Lord"? Although the first trope can be fun to play with too... the Dark Lord destroys the plot device meant to defeat him only to be brought down by the heroine's sheer badassness and awesome!