Good hard-boiled dick novel

DrZoidberg · Mar 11, 2010

In my WIP there's a small section which is seen through the eyes of a private detective. I thought I'd go the whole way and copy the style of a proper hard-boiled novel complete with bitter observations about the state of the world. I want to get the feel just right. Not necessarily a parody, even though it will be parodic knowing what the reader knows.

I thought I'd go to the master and bought I, the Jury by Mickey Spillaine. The problem is that it is just awful. Never mind the story, the flat prose is beyond any resuscitation. I just can't use this. The only reason I can "see" anything is because I've seen the Maltese Falcon and Casablanca. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have a clue. Is there any hard-boiled novel out there written by anybody who gives a damn about what they write? Or is under worked and sloppy speed-writing a part of the concept?

Thanks for any tips

Ruv Draba · Mar 11, 2010

Anything by Raymond Chandler has strong narration. The dialogue can get corny at times though, and the characters are fairly flat. The wry narration keeps the story moving though. A list of Chandlerisms can be found here.

bigb · Mar 11, 2010

The Maltese Falcon is actually a great book as well, Dashiell Hammett.

He created Sam Spade, how awesome is that!

DrZoidberg · Mar 11, 2010

Thanks, that looks great. I think characters will be inevitably flat in a hard-boiled novel, I mean, the characters operate in a one-dimensional universe. Nothing quite beats 50'ies corny dialogue. That's one of the high-lights of film-noir. Comedy is a lot more fun if it tries not to be.

Sai · Mar 11, 2010

I second Dashiell Hammett, though as far as detectives go I prefer his nameless Continental Operative to Sam Spade. "Red Harvest" is my favorite book of his. I also suggest short stories, as that way you can read a bunch of different plots and see how different authors do hardboiled. A favorite of mine is "Hardboiled: An Anthology of American Crime Stories."

This is just my bias towards hardboiled fiction, but I don't think characters in a noir world need to be flat or unintentionally comical. While they might talk in innuendo and quips, part of it is just a way to stay sane in a crazy, crime-ridden city. The characters are trying to navigate a decaying world, not a one-dimensional one. If they are less rounded than characters from other books, it's probably just because the focus is on the plot, not the characters.

alleycat · Mar 11, 2010

I would probably have first suggested something by Raymond Chandler as well.

If you want to look at something more recent, check out the Joe Pike character by Robert Crais; The Watchman would be a good choice.

Birol · Mar 11, 2010

Susan Paretsky. She created the female detective VI Warshawski.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 11, 2010

Dashiell Hammett is a great American stylist.

Try The Continental Op (a collection of his short stories).

Red Harvest is excellent.

seun · Mar 11, 2010

I expected something completely different from a thread with this title.

DrZoidberg · Mar 11, 2010

seun said:
I expected something completely different from a thread with this title.

So whadaya expect in this crazy world that doesn't amount to anything in this hill of beans?

Birol · Mar 11, 2010

DrZoidberg said:
So whadaya expect in this crazy world that doesn't amount to anything in this hill of beans?

That's quite the mishmash of quotes you've got going on.

TC Beacham · Mar 11, 2010

Have you tried Michael Connelly's Harry Bosch books - or this one, The Chicago Way...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0307266869/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

mudbubble · Mar 11, 2010

I am not kidding when I say read all of the Tracer Bullet Calvin & Hobbes comic strips you can get your hands on...This should end this thread...

All hail the Popping Bubble..

job · Mar 11, 2010

May I piggyback on this posting to ask if anyone knows of books that discuss what I'd call . . . 'the investigative mindset'.

I'm thinking Don Winslow-esque stuff, where he talks about how a dectective interacts with his environment. The sort of voice-overs we get in 'Burn Notice'.

Any suggestions for books?

timewaster · Mar 11, 2010

seun said:
I expected something completely different from a thread with this title.

Me too - it made me wince actually and I'm a girl.

mudbubble · Mar 11, 2010

Excuse me I have officially ended this thread... ob you have been issued a citation for unlicensed piggybacking....

Seun & Timewaster the double entendre thread is thataway.. now move along people nothing else to see here.

Officer Bubblelicious

third person · Mar 11, 2010

seun said:
I expected something completely different from a thread with this title.

That's cos ScarletPeaches ain't replied to it yet, guv

blacbird · Mar 11, 2010

Not exactly hard-boiled detective, but close, especially in attitude and the kind of observations about the state of the world you mention: The Travis McGee novels of John D. MacDonald.

caw

JulieHowe · Mar 11, 2010

I highly recommend Raymond Chandler and James M. Cain if you're looking for books in the hardboiled detective genre. McCain's books also translated incredibly well to film, so long as you rent the originals. I recommend the classic films The Postman Always Rings Twice (the original version with Lana Turner, not the remake with Jessica Lange), and Double Indemnity (with Barbara Stanwyck), as a complement to reading the novels.

seun · Mar 11, 2010

third person said:
That's cos ScarletPeaches ain't replied to it yet, guv

Give it time...

Jamesaritchie · Mar 11, 2010

DrZoidberg said:
In my WIP there's a small section which is seen through the eyes of a private detective. I thought I'd go the whole way and copy the style of a proper hard-boiled novel complete with bitter observations about the state of the world. I want to get the feel just right. Not necessarily a parody, even though it will be parodic knowing what the reader knows.

I thought I'd go to the master and bought I, the Jury by Mickey Spillaine. The problem is that it is just awful. Never mind the story, the flat prose is beyond any resuscitation. I just can't use this. The only reason I can "see" anything is because I've seen the Maltese Falcon and Casablanca. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have a clue. Is there any hard-boiled novel out there written by anybody who gives a damn about what they write? Or is under worked and sloppy speed-writing a part of the concept?

Thanks for any tips

I think I, the Jury, is remarkably well-written, despite the fact that it was written start to finish in nine days. So I'd say Mickey Spillane is one of those writers who definitely gives a damn. If that's flat prose, I'll take it every time.

You might also try Lawrence Block's Matthew Scudder novels. They're often very dark, and always very, very well-written.

I also love Robert B. Parker's Spenser novels.

You should also read Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett.

Scoody · Mar 11, 2010

John Sanford in his Prey series uses a very cynical and world weary POV. Not quite hard boiled but it works.

Good hard-boiled dick novel

DrZoidberg

aka TomOfSweden

Ruv Draba

bigb

Gun in Mouth Blues

DrZoidberg

aka TomOfSweden

Sai

Book lover/Spy

alleycat

Still around

Birol

Around and About

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

seun

Horror Man

DrZoidberg

aka TomOfSweden

Birol

Around and About

TC Beacham

Great Beach Reads!

mudbubble

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

timewaster

present

mudbubble

third person

She blinded me--with magic!

blacbird

JulieHowe

Spent the night with Jack Daniels

seun

Horror Man

Jamesaritchie

Scoody