The Vampire Market

Um, shades of Laurel Hamilton, perhaps, without the sex...?

Honestly, I'm not sure you're not reading old information. Most of the stuff I've seen coming out recently is in direct conflict with the cuddly vampire, romantic vampire concept in The Book That Should Not Be by The Author Who Shall Not Be Named.

I just saw one the other day that had an interesting, if amusing, concept - Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. That's certainly not a book that's going to have glittery vampires, but it does have a catchy title and an interesting concept.

Have you read Jeff Rice's The Night Stalker and how close is your writing to that vision? How close is your story to Dracula? Or Anne Rice's Vampire Lestat series?

<or more importantly than any my own Quentin Dallas stories?>

I think you've got to write it first and get feedback. If the writing is good, it often doesn't matter so much if it fits into the current market.

I've had a vampire story knocked back a few times because it was an overdone trope. The vampire sub-genre is a tough sell but something less about vampires could just work.

Would you still write it even if there wasn't a chance it could be published?

There's some stories I just have to write even if there's no market for it. The stories need to be told.

My hardcore Gothic eighteenth century vampires are selling well at the moment and no one could possibly consider them cuddly or glittery. Regardless, you shouldn't be worrying about a market for your idea until it's written. At that point, if it's well-written and tells an engaging story, you should be able to find a market for it. What the market doesn't need right now is another poorly told, derivative vampire story and I think that's probably what the agents are talking about.

*shudders at the thought of all the horrific Twilight clones cluttering up inboxes*

FOTSGreg said:

I just saw one the other day that had an interesting, if amusing, concept - Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. That's certainly not a book that's going to have glittery vampires, but it does have a catchy title and an interesting concept.

>

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I think I saw one called 'Queen Victoria : Vampire Hunter' when I was waterstones the other day

I love vampire stories either way. hope it isnt getting old because I am writing my very own series as well. working on third book while trying to publish the first one. Hope all works out for you and I look forward to reading your stories. V--V

Christine C. said:

I love vampire stories either way. hope it isnt getting old because I am writing my very own series as well. working on third book while trying to publish the first one. Hope all works out for you and I look forward to reading your stories. V--V

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Well, the fangless fairies are falling out of grace, or so it seems in some circles. I'd much rather read an actual vampire than a hypersexual pansy looking for love.

EFCollins said:

Well, the fangless fairies are falling out of grace, or so it seems in some circles. I'd much rather read an actual vampire than a hypersexual pansy looking for love.

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I'd agree. Thank god 'Twilight-era' vampires are going to spend themselves out with too much hype.

If you're going to do something radically different with the vampire trope, it's probably advisable you have a good grasp of the classics of the genre first to know what you're playing with.

This goes for zombies and other classic tropes too.

The hype is currently on in full mega-force due to the oncoming release of "New Mo(r)on" on the 20th of the month. I've already got 52 feet of valuable space completely and totally dedicated to the release and adorned with (and I'm in the Electronics Dept. mind you) t-shirts, toys (I'm sorry - "action figures"), games, tote bags, movies, books, music, posters, and frakking Twi(t)light-themed chips, soda & dips!.

This does not count the 20-ft sections in the Apparel, Toys, and Grocery Depts.

We even have the braindead frakking movie playing for all the witless droves of fans already starting to call my dept up asking if we're going to have a store "event" for when the movie's released at midnight (12:01am) on the 20th.

I am already so sick of this crap I can't stand it and I've got 10 days of it yet to go.

I am going to lose my mind completely.

Greg... you have my sympathies. I would suggest to kill it with fire, but that would equal law suit. I don't think fire is advisable.

Ben, thankfully, the horror community has something to do with this. It is our (horror people as a whole) displeasure that brought to light what a fraud these pseudo-vampires are. It's not just Twilight. There is a whole slew of this crap out there. Twilight just got the most media hype. I can't say that they shouldn't have been put out--after all, who the hell would I think I was to say such a thing?

But I bet anything that Lestat or Dracula would make Edward or Stephan (the guy from vampire diaries) piss their pants and cry like the girls they are. (this is said in teasing disgust. I might not like them, but I know some people do. I just prefer real vampires.)

Vlad II Dracul would kill either of them where they stand just for claiming to be such as he.

I think the problem a lot of you have with Twilight is that you're trying to compare it and expect it to be a horror. Just because it has vampires doesn't mean it's horror. It's actually a supernatural teen romance, emphasis on teen, emphasis on romance.

There is a huge market for romance so it doesn't surprise me at all that Twilight was a huge hit.

Comparing Twilight to horror vampires is apple and oranges. They both happen to suck blood. Like serial killers and baseball little league players both eat cereal, but you can't tell me there's a comparison.

In my opinion Twilight has nothing to do with horror or vampires in horror but rather romance and supernatural romances. They aren't meant to be the same or act the same or be written the same and they certainly DO NOT have the same audience. Anyone looking to write a horror based vampire story should look at other horror based vampire books, not supernatural romances as their cues.

If you want good solid examples of vampires in a more horror setting, with not cuddles and sparkles, look at books published by White Wolf. They have some really good ones by a variety of authors.

See, Ice Rose, you'd be dead wrong there. Let me explain.

My problems do not only extend to Twilight. And if you think that there are "different" vampires then I'm sorry, but that's just silly. Half of these supposed vampires are nothing like traditional vampire lore. There are reasons that vampires stayed a horror monster for so long. Reasons that vampires don't love or have babies. Concrete reasons, of which I have ranted and raved about on this site, my blog, other sites. I don't need to do it again.

But...

From someone who knows traditional lore dating back hundreds of years, who has read and studied and watched documentary after documentary and then read some more, these romantic vampires are nothing more than a human man who wasn't interesting enough so they were given the vampire association. If any one of these things followed traditional guidelines, I'd not have a problem. If they gave concrete reasons for the evolution that negated traditional vampire associations, I'd not have a problem. But you can't throw every rule that has been there for centuries and expect people who actually give a damn about their genre, the original home of the vampire, you know... horror, to accept it. Why? Because they are infringing on a hundreds of years old lore that we, as horror writers and lovers, understand and love. We did the damn work to get to know the vampire as he was intended to be.

Why can't these people?

If they did, not one would have attempted a frigging vampire baby. Want to know why? Because vampires are dead. Dead things cannot produce offspring. Should I explain further? The human female body produces eggs and the male produces sperm. Living organisms and cells. Once the body dies, that production stops, just like every other bodily function. A dead body cannot sustain a life. And if that isn't enough, a baby has to be alive to grow and gestate properly. But how can a very live baby gestate in a dead body? This was even part of Count Dracula's torture (in books beyond Stoker's Dracula). He wanted children and his "wives" (also vampires not some fawning human girls)tried and tried and while they could form the eggs and fertilize them, the babies would rot within. Because they were formed dead. Dead things do not grow. Next thing, someone will try to tell me vampires aren't dead.

So no, I'm not comparing these... things to vampires. There is no comparison. On the other end... the "romantic" one... there is no vampires. Just characters that needed something to make them stand out. A real vampire would know better. And writers should do the damned research and actually learn about what they try to use instead of just using the term "vampire" like it's something cool. Dead isn't sexy or cool to anyone and if it is, I'd be tempted to be more afraid of them as people than even a real vampire written by a horror writer.

What's sad is that people really think that drinking blood equals vampire and that is not how vampires are classified at all. But that all goes back to research. You can't bastardize a centuries old trope on every level and expect people that give a damn to be okay with it.

I'm sorry, but if people can't bother to research, I can't bother to read.

That might not even be true though. I've done a fair share of research, though obviously not as much as you, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to do my own thing that is different. Variety is a good thing, it breathes life back into long dead subjects. The variety might not be for you, but you'll find several different forms of vampires even in the old lore. I see nothing wrong with this. It's happened in the zombie genre too. 28 Days Later is an example of that, so is Fido. It's argued of course that the creatures in 28 Days Later are not zombies but it's still strikes that vein, much like Twilight strikes the Vampire vein. If we tangled ourselves forever in what has been written we wouldn't ever see anything new or different.

That doesn't mean everyone is going to be happy but who ever is? What single story can you point out that makes everyone happy.

The vampires or things as you call them in Twilight will never live up to your expectations of vampires but it doesn't mean Twilight has less of a right to exist than Dracula does. Nor is it any less deserving of fans. It just goes to show that there are a variety of tastes out there. Some people get hot over Twilight others cringe in the dark over the horror story involving "traditional" vampires they're reading.

Are either wrong? I say no. No one is wrong. It all comes down to individual tastes. Doesn't mean you have to like it but I think it's unfair to write it off entirely simply because it doesn't fall into your personal tastes.

I don't think it has no right to exist. I'm not begrudging anyone their books or fanbase. People will read what they'll read and obviously there is a market for it. I don't have to like it or buy it. But, I would be willing to buy and read a book that took an interesting turn on old tradition. New and innovative is never bad, after all, without it things would not move forward.

(Oh, and the "dead wrong" comment wasn't about the vampire thing. It's about the comment you made as to why you thought we dislike Twilight-like vampires. I'm a good sport... I should have clarified that a bit better.)

And yes, there are several variations on the old lore. Variations. Not a total disregard of it. I see these new vampire types and want to scream because they are so blatantly polar opposite of that old lore. At least until recent years, the old lore was upheld to some degree. I see no similarity at all in this recent fad breed of vampire.

EFCollins said:

I don't think it has no right to exist. I'm not begrudging anyone their books or fanbase. People will read what they'll read and obviously there is a market for it. I don't have to like it or buy it. But, I would be willing to buy and read a book that took an interesting turn on old tradition. New and innovative is never bad, after all, without it things would not move forward.

(Oh, and the "dead wrong" comment wasn't about the vampire thing. It's about the comment you made as to why you thought we dislike Twilight-like vampires. I'm a good sport... I should have clarified that a bit better.)

And yes, there are several variations on the old lore. Variations. Not a total disregard of it. I see these new vampire types and want to scream because they are so blatantly polar opposite of that old lore. At least until recent years, the old lore was upheld to some degree. I see no similarity at all in this recent fad breed of vampire.

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Definitely not the same breed. If puppies and kittens and rainbow unicorns could spawn vampires, this latest breed would be it. But it may very well be writers like you and me who keep it balanced. For all those rainbow unicorn vampires, I'll raise a blood thirsty savage who sees his victims as nothing more than fun little mice he's placed in his own maze for his own amusement and will toy with them until he's bored or at the peak of ecstasy drunk heavy on their blood and sauntering off into the night to savor one last breath before the dawn.

icerose said:

Definitely not the same breed. If puppies and kittens and rainbow unicorns could spawn vampires, this latest breed would be it. LOL But it may very well be writers like you and me who keep it balanced. For all those rainbow unicorn vampires, I'll raise a blood thirsty savage who sees his victims as nothing more than fun little mice he's placed in his own maze for his own amusement and will toy with them until he's bored or at the peak of ecstasy drunk heavy on their blood and sauntering off into the night to savor one last breath before the dawn.

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Absolutely. I suppose I'd have liked to see their "breed of vamp" called something else. Fluffamps? Limpire? (Teasing, teasing) I like my vamps mean and bloodthirsty and soulless. Three cheers for meanies!

In all seriousness, I do hope the market for traditional vampire stories stays strong in the face of these others. I'd hate to have someone buy my book and then rage at me for it not being enough like the romantical vamps. I think I'd have a heart attack!

EFCollins said:

Absolutely. I suppose I'd have liked to see their "breed of vamp" called something else. Fluffamps? Limpire? (Teasing, teasing) I like my vamps mean and bloodthirsty and soulless. Three cheers for meanies!

In all seriousness, I do hope the market for traditional vampire stories stays strong in the face of these others. I'd hate to have someone buy my book and then rage at me for it not being enough like the romantical vamps. I think I'd have a heart attack!

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Which is why I made my first point. They're completely different genres. Anyone who walks into a horror story featuring vampires (Salem's Lot?) and expects to be cuddled by them is sadly mistaken. There have been some recently, even with Twilight. 30 Days of Night did fairly well. Blade did really well. Romance has simply always had the bigger market so you'll see things like Twilight hit the big times while other stories to your liking may do well, will probably never recieve mainstream attention they might deserve. Horror has never been mainstream and has been somewhat a bastardized child of literature and movies alike.

Oh yes. Horror gets the shaft. It's so hard to break into. I think that's why we so fiercely protect things we think of as "ours" exclusively. Such as vampires. We don't have much that works for us in the big time.

EFCollins said:

Oh yes. Horror gets the shaft. It's so hard to break into. I think that's why we so fiercely protect things we think of as "ours" exclusively. Such as vampires. We don't have much that works for us in the big time.

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Unfortunately I don't think horror has anything that's exclusive. Everyone wants a bite. That being said horror itself shoots itself in the foot more often than not. How many stupid horror movies have you see that feature the bobbleheaded blond with the big breasts running around screaming as a main event?