Ugh! Demand editor PUT mistakes in my piece.

Sleepyhead · Mar 5, 2010

I apologize if this has come up before. I searched the forum and didn't find anything.

I just started writing for Demand, so I don't want to make waves - but an editor just added mistakes to an article of mine! Essentially, s/he didn't like some of what I'd written, but instead of asking me for a rewrite, "fixed" it for me. Now there's a glaring grammatical error at the end of the introductory paragraph, and a really obvious case of bad punctuation and spacing [". , "] in the first sentence of step one. Can I call this to anyone's attention?

My name is going to be on this, and it just looks so sloppy. Yuck!

WildScribe · Mar 5, 2010

I would suggest doing what I did... go into your account, and change your display name to something that no one will connect to you.

Uncarved · Mar 5, 2010

yes there are two hard and fast rules for DS writing.
1) dont put your real name on it and
2) you can either be right or be paid when it comes to taking a stand against a CE

Good luck in future articles there

Sleepyhead · Mar 5, 2010

Ooooh, that's discouraging. But thanks to both of you for answering.

princessvessna · Mar 6, 2010

Yep, exactly why I use a pen name. I don't want things like editors putting in mistakes associated with my work under my real name.

ResearchGuy · Mar 6, 2010

Sleepyhead said:
. . . My name is going to be on this, and it just looks so sloppy. Yuck!

My experience with a weekly column suggests that it goes with the territory. If you are not getting paid for the work, might want to walk away. If it is a paid gig . . . well . ..

--Ken

ravenlea · Mar 6, 2010

This is part of why I have stopped writing for DS. I agree, change your name and use a pen name from now on. i'd also take down any pictures of yourself if you uploaded for them to use.

Sleepyhead · Mar 6, 2010

In another thread on this board, the general advice seemed to be to use your real name if including bio information about schools, awards, etc. And DS requires that info., and a photo. So if I use a pseudonym, how do I get around the bio/photo requirements?

I just saw more changes to approved articles today - errors hadn't been added, but perfectly fine phrases had been replaced with cliches.

We desperately need this money right now, so I guess I just have to swallow my pride on this one. (Shudder.)

EDIT: Okay, I just went in and changed my name and swapped out my photo for one that looks a bit less like the photos I use for my other projects. I think I can live with myself now.

Thanks, everyone!

princessvessna · Mar 6, 2010

I put that stuff in my bio still about schools I think, the fact I work at About, etc. If someone realllllllyy wants to know who I am, they could probably figure it out by going to About after reading my bio. But that's still a degree of separation. My Demand picture has a different hairstyle and glasses, and my About one has no glasses, etc.

For me, my name is very Google-able (as in, all but one result out there - thousands even - is me!), so I don't want stuff like DS where it can be changed after I've submitted it all.

And your plan sounds just fine

Cool deal.

jana13k · Mar 7, 2010

I use a pen name, for all the necessary reasons. I took a picture for DS at Halloween - complete with black, gothic bob, vampire sunglasses and the cross necklace.

I am actually a blonde-haired, blue-eyed German girl. No one is going to recognize me. lol

joyce · Mar 7, 2010

Sleepyhead said:
I apologize if this has come up before. I searched the forum and didn't find anything.

I just started writing for Demand, so I don't want to make waves - but an editor just added mistakes to an article of mine! Essentially, s/he didn't like some of what I'd written, but instead of asking me for a rewrite, "fixed" it for me. Now there's a glaring grammatical error at the end of the introductory paragraph, and a really obvious case of bad punctuation and spacing [". , "] in the first sentence of step one. Can I call this to anyone's attention?

My name is going to be on this, and it just looks so sloppy. Yuck!

I've had this happen before. I wrote to editorial and linked to the article in question, pointed out the mistake and told them what needed to be fixed. They fixed everything for me and apologized for the CE. I suggest you write a note to editorial and tell them. They were very quick with their response back to me and with the fix.

It has not happened very often, but I've had articles where the CE seemed like they wanted to be the one writing the article and changed things and added their own phrases. I squint my eyes and cringe, but as long as they have the grammar correct I let it slide by. I just want to get paid. If they add crap along with mistakes, I just write editorial.

We writers get pinged on our scorecards for mistakes, I figure editorial needs to know when CE's are making mistakes too. By having editorial fix the mistake I figure it makes my article look a little better.....even if the CE added crap I didn't want.

Sleepyhead · Mar 7, 2010

jana13k said:
I use a pen name, for all the necessary reasons. I took a picture for DS at Halloween - complete with black, gothic bob, vampire sunglasses and the cross necklace.

I am actually a blonde-haired, blue-eyed German girl. No one is going to recognize me. lol

I LOVE it!!!

joyce said:
I've had this happen before. I wrote to editorial and linked to the article in question, pointed out the mistake and told them what needed to be fixed. They fixed everything for me and apologized for the CE. I suggest you write a note to editorial and tell them. They were very quick with their response back to me and with the fix.

It has not happened very often, but I've had articles where the CE seemed like they wanted to be the one writing the article and changed things and added their own phrases. I squint my eyes and cringe, but as long as they have the grammar correct I let it slide by. I just want to get paid. If they add crap along with mistakes, I just write editorial.

We writers get pinged on our scorecards for mistakes, I figure editorial needs to know when CE's are making mistakes too. By having editorial fix the mistake I figure it makes my article look a little better.....even if the CE added crap I didn't want.

I did that. Haven't heard back yet or seen changes, but it IS the weekend. I'm just a little nervous about it, because I've heard the CEs can get kind of retaliatory? Hope that doesn't happen.

I write a blog about the stuff I've been choosing to write most of my DS articles about, and I just said, "Hey, you guys, I'll let you know my pen name if you ask, but here's what's happening to my work and why it isn't under my own name. . ."

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Anastacia · Mar 7, 2010

tinasamuels said:
yes there are two hard and fast rules for DS writing.
1) dont put your real name on it and
2) you can either be right or be paid when it comes to taking a stand against a CE

Good luck in future articles there

This is really the only way to go when writing for DS.

My other personal recommendation is never to appeal anything. You'll waste your time and they'll never side with you. Even if they do side with you (and that has happened to me) the CE is perfectly free to dismiss the changes in question and reject the article anyway.

Treat them like a job rather than some sort of amazing and fantastic opportunity. Don't put something through five rough drafts or make yourself crazy over a single article. The aggrevation (let alone the less than five cents a word pay) simply isn't worth it.

You'll feel much better that way.

plaidearthworm · Mar 7, 2010

This isn't just about DS; writers have had this problem even before the Internet. Before I started freelancing full time, I wrote a piece for a regional pub about a festival. After it came out in print, it had a glaring typo that wasn't there before. Not much you can do, except don't use a mangled piece as a sample or clip. You're going to generate hundreds of articles with DS (and other publishers) and mistakes happen. Use your best ones for clips, and let DS know about major errors. It does take them a little while to respond, because wrangling 20,000 writers is like herding cats. A lot of cats. A city of cats. I may not always agree with them; I've had one rejection, one lost appeal, dozens of rewrites, but I've always been treated fairly.

Good luck, and happy writing!

joyce · Mar 7, 2010

Sleepyhead said:
I LOVE it!!!

I did that. Haven't heard back yet or seen changes, but it IS the weekend. I'm just a little nervous about it, because I've heard the CEs can get kind of retaliatory? Hope that doesn't happen.

I write a blog about the stuff I've been choosing to write most of my DS articles about, and I just said, "Hey, you guys, I'll let you know my pen name if you ask, but here's what's happening to my work and why it isn't under my own name. . ."

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Yeah, the weekend the joint closes down. I figure the CE's are just like the general population. You have some people who are nice and are just trying to do their job. Then you have jerks, that no matter what you do you'll never please them. I'm sure most of the CE's are not retaliatory, but then I'm sure some are...it's human nature. There is always a jerk in the crowd somewhere.

I go through spells over there. I've got right under 1000 articles published through DS and 99% go through without a hitch, or with some little fix. Then I'll go through a week where it seems like everything I'm submitting is picked apart. Most of the time the things the CE suggests are helpful and they are right, then there are times I think I'm working with an alien. Usually if the fix is too dramatic or will take too long, I just let the article die.

I'm having one of those dramatic weeks over there now. I've done a bunch of fishing articles and suddenly every one I've submitted this week the CE is asking for some crazy stuff. I can't help but wonder is it the same CE and they're picking on me because I let a fishing article rewrite expire, but then it's probably all in my paranoid head. I figure it's just my week for craziness over there and once it goes away I'll be back on track of having my articles go through without any insanity attached to them.

Joyce....keeping her fingers crossed for a hassle free week at DS.

Sleepyhead · Mar 7, 2010

joyce said:
I'm having one of those dramatic weeks over there now. I've done a bunch of fishing articles and suddenly every one I've submitted this week the CE is asking for some crazy stuff. I can't help but wonder is it the same CE and they're picking on me because I let a fishing article rewrite expire, but then it's probably all in my paranoid head. I figure it's just my week for craziness over there and once it goes away I'll be back on track of having my articles go through without any insanity attached to them.

Yeah, I just experienced this. I said something about looking for marks on jewelry and suggested the reader get a marks reference - and was asked to explain what a marks reference was. Um, it's a reference - for marks. If the person is looking at marks, s/he knows what those are, so the only thing to really figure out is what "reference" means - um, do people really need help with that? Especially when I've mentioned the name of a good reference, a name that itself was pretty explanatory?

And I was told not to use subtitles when I had "only one section." What? I can't even fathom what that was about. It was a three-step how-to, and I didn't add a subtitle to any of the steps. I even checked the document I'd saved in Word just to be sure.

And I'm definitely experiencing the feeling that the CE wanted to write the article. Not with this one, but with the one riddled with mistakes. Here's how a couple of the mistakes happened:

First I wrote a sentence, a sentence with a more than one clause.

A sentence with more than one clause, First I wrote, . And the copy editor swapped the clauses without lowercasing the original first word or changing the punctuation that followed the original first clause. LOL.

This is really bizarre.

Thanks for letting me vent. I'll be able to suck it up and let it go once I can wrap my head around it, but wrapping my head around it is hard to do. I mean, the CEs have to have such a high volume of turnover to make the pay worth it. Why bother screwing with stuff that isn't really wrong?

joyce · Mar 8, 2010

My CE said the bait that I stated to attract smallmouth bass was basically the same in all three lakes. I should use different baits. Well....duh..the six to seven baits (artificial and live) I listed are what smallmouth bass bite on. Why would I list a bait that would not work? The article is to have facts listed in it. Why would I tell an angler to use chicken livers if nothing but a catfish would bite on it? We are fishing for bass? I just scratched my head and let the rewrite die like the balance in my checking account.

Hope everyone has a spectacular week at DS.

Sleepyhead · Mar 10, 2010

Yay! An editor contacted me; the article is fixed, and he said not to hesitate to bring things like this to their attention.

Now I'm just hoping a rewrite I did won't be rejected - I think the CE's bigger problem was with the article topic itself and not the writing. I tried to point out as gently as I could that when "traditional" is part of the title, I don't have a lot of room to play with the facts. There weren't many changes I could make other than to throw in stuff like, ". . . but you can feel free to reject this if it doesn't suit your taste" and link a lot more sources. (Believe me, the sources I'd already linked had covered everything I said.)

I guess I'm having one of those really bad weeks. Too bad it's my first!

How much does a rejection ding a score, and how low can the score dip before they stop letting you claim articles?

jana13k · Mar 10, 2010

Scores in the 3's are good and no one seems to have problems in that range. Rejections don't "appear" to be a problem until they're 4% of total written - unless you're new and then allowances are made.

I am on day 7 of a break from DS. I got so many odd rewrites that I wanted to pull my hair out, so I'm done until I feel like dealing with it again. Thank God I don't have to have the money. It was paying off debt, but ya know, sometimes it's just not worth the aggravation. I figured a little break, especially as review times have sky-rocketed, would do me good.

WildScribe · Mar 10, 2010

I have experienced CE/editor retaliation. It does happen, just in case anyone was doubting.

Fatal Serenity · Mar 10, 2010

I've written close to 100 articles for DS now, and I've certainly had my share of editors who have poorly edited my work. In fact, I've even had editors who clearly had no understanding of the subject matter covered within the article. However, I've also had a select few editors who have gone out of their way to not only improve the article but also my performance unique to DS and overall writing ability. I wish that these editors could get some recognition for their hard work.

Does anyone else feel that writers should be able to rate the performance of the editor in a similar way to how we are rated on the scorecard?

Sleepyhead · Mar 11, 2010

jana13k said:
Scores in the 3's are good and no one seems to have problems in that range. Rejections don't "appear" to be a problem until they're 4% of total written - unless you're new and then allowances are made.

Thank, Jana. Good to know!

WildScribe said:
I have experienced CE/editor retaliation. It does happen, just in case anyone was doubting.

Exactly what I was afraid of.

Fatal Serenity said:
Does anyone else feel that writers should be able to rate the performance of the editor in a similar way to how we are rated on the scorecard?

That does seem fair. And why is it that they can see our bylines, but we can't face (metaphorically) our accusers?

I am grateful for the opportunity to write and make money. I really don't mean to sound so negative; I just have a terribly strong sense of fair play matched only by my dislike of bullies.

joyce · Mar 11, 2010

When they first started talking about introducing the scorecard thing, we writers we supposed to have the opportunity to score CE's too. Though it was talked about I've never seen that option put into action. From what I read on the DS forums some time ago, I think there were writers who were getting pretty violent towards the CE who edited their articles and the writer didn't like the comments. So the CE became hidden.

Most of the CE's I've dealt with have been great. Then there have been a couple that were just plain nerve wracking. I've even had CE's sign their name to their comments. I've had a few send me their email address so we could communicate aside from DS so the changes could get fixed without a rejection. That was really nice. It hasn't happened much and I believe it's against DS laws, but I did appreciate the extra effort of those few particular CE's.

jana13k · Mar 11, 2010

The CEs are not supposed to sign their names or even a tagline or contact writers and there was a big fray on the DS forums over that. To which I pointed out that if there was really a ZERO contact rule, then that meant no posting on the forum "To the Ce that edited _____" but of course, no one wanted to address my comment b/c that would be inconvenient. Silliness prevails on the forums sometimes. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Why in the world would I care if a CE contacted me or anyone else to fix their article rather than rejecting it. Some people decided that the CE should be editing articles instead of spending so much time on one. Then I pointed out that they are contractors, like us, and can spend their time however they want. Another comment that went unanswered or challenged. Again, the common sense problem.

I honestly don't want to rate the CEs because I don't know what we'd rate them on. So if they approve an article with no rewrite, do we have to edit their edit and then rate them? I never reread my articles and don't want to start. That would cut into my earnings. Some writers are likely to give a low rating just because they receive a rewrite request, even if it's warranted. Basically, I just think it would take up my time and for no pay. The only legitimate thing I could see rating them on was the clarity of a rewrite request. But if EVERYONE with a question on a rewrite started sending them up for clarification, the editorial staff might take a closer look and some CEs and it would accomplish the same thing.

Sleepyhead · Mar 11, 2010

jana13k said:
The CEs are not supposed to sign their names or even a tagline or contact writers and there was a big fray on the DS forums over that. To which I pointed out that if there was really a ZERO contact rule, then that meant no posting on the forum "To the Ce that edited _____" but of course, no one wanted to address my comment b/c that would be inconvenient. Silliness prevails on the forums sometimes. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Why in the world would I care if a CE contacted me or anyone else to fix their article rather than rejecting it. Some people decided that the CE should be editing articles instead of spending so much time on one. Then I pointed out that they are contractors, like us, and can spend their time however they want. Another comment that went unanswered or challenged. Again, the common sense problem.

I honestly don't want to rate the CEs because I don't know what we'd rate them on. So if they approve an article with no rewrite, do we have to edit their edit and then rate them? I never reread my articles and don't want to start. That would cut into my earnings. Some writers are likely to give a low rating just because they receive a rewrite request, even if it's warranted. Basically, I just think it would take up my time and for no pay. The only legitimate thing I could see rating them on was the clarity of a rewrite request. But if EVERYONE with a question on a rewrite started sending them up for clarification, the editorial staff might take a closer look and some CEs and it would accomplish the same thing.

Good points. Hadn't thought of it that way.

I haven't been to the forums yet. I don't think I'd try to address a problem that way; seems a rather passive-aggressive way to go about it, lol.

Ugh! Demand editor PUT mistakes in my piece.

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