"Was" or "Were" for Hypothetical Singular?

Brad · Feb 25, 2010

I have the sentence: "At birth the human brain is so soft and amoebic that it could take the shape of any container into which it was poured". To me it sounds like "were" better fits the hypothetical nature, but I can't say why. I think "was" kind of sounds like it actually happened.

Maryn · Feb 25, 2010

It's were. Here's why:

When a verb
• indicates a wish (Examples: I wish I were home. She wished the store were open.)
• begins with if and expresses a condition that does not exist (Examples: If I were queen, you would bow. If we were any luckier, we'd be rich.) <--this is your example
• begins with as if or as though (Examples: She ran as if she were on fire. They bought stock as though investing were risk free.)
• begins with that and expresses a demand, request, requirement, or suggestion (Examples: The college requires that incoming students register in person. Lucille asks that Tom arrive early.)
that's subjunctive mood.

The present tense of subjunctive uses the base form of the verb. (That means the verb’s basic form: come, arrive, run, swing, think, etc.) The past tense uses the indicative mood except for be, which uses were for all subjects, singular and plural.

Maryn, dimly remembering subjunctive from Latin, where she learned most of her English

Brad · Feb 25, 2010

Thanks, great answer. You must have had a better Latin teacher than I did.

padnar · Feb 26, 2010

Great post . Usually I cannot explain why it is correct I will say from the sound it is ok
padma

Maryn · Feb 26, 2010

I'm such a language geek. I had a copy-and-paste ready to go on this, because I used to print this kind of thing and stick it where our teenage kids would see it, changing the location and the topic once a week or so. Most of the stuff was about writing, although I did have a bit on Base Two, Roman Numerals, and a bit of history.

They're adults now. Both write well, although neither writes fiction.

Maryn, glad to help

mkcbunny · Feb 28, 2010

Really helpful, thanks. I've always de faulted to "were" but wasn't sure why. Must've been beaten into my head in a past life.

CynV · Feb 28, 2010

This may be completely OT but is that really true about the human brain?

Chris P · Feb 28, 2010

CynV said:
This may be completely OT but is that really true about the human brain?

It's probably one of those things that's true by it isn't. I do know what a baby's head (and therefore brain) can undergo great shape deformities and still function, although the idea that it can be poured like plaster of paris and still work is of course silly.

Brad · Feb 28, 2010

CynV said:
This may be completely OT but is that really true about the human brain?

I read this in the book The Senses of Man by Joan Steen Wilentz. According to her it is more plasma than solid. So maybe it is like soft jello? It's hard to say without many plasma-like things to compare it to. I wrote a short blurb about it.

On another note, I was informed by PM that the forms of "to be" should have the same tense in both places in the sentence. In other words it should read "...container into which it might be poured", or "...container into which it is poured". I think that makes a lot of sense. It shouldn't be past tense if I start out with "At birth the brain is...".

Sheila Muirenn · Mar 1, 2010

I don't have as good an answer as Maryn's. But I once read an article that showed simply how to determine by ear. Use the lyrics from the Fiddler On the Roof song:

If I were a rich man...

If whatever you are trying to write could conceivably be substituted into this format for tense etc, it is easy to judge whether it should be were or was. I did it as soon as I read your post. It seemed a little off to me for 'were,' but Maryn's explanation confirmed that it worked.

If I was a rich man...

not so much!

Also:

Brad said:
On another note, I was informed by PM that the forms of "to be" should have the same tense in both places in the sentence. In other words it should read "...container into which it might be poured", or "...container into which it is poured". I think that makes a lot of sense. It shouldn't be past tense if I start out with "At birth the brain is...".

Right. The sentence itself was off. So not just the 'were,' was necessary, but a rewrite of the entire thought and tense.

Jack Newcastle · Mar 4, 2010

Maryn said:
It's were. Here's why:

When a verb
• indicates a wish (Examples: I wish I were home. She wished the store were open.)
• begins with if and expresses a condition that does not exist (Examples: If I were queen, you would bow. If we were any luckier, we'd be rich.) <--this is your example
• begins with as if or as though (Examples: She ran as if she were on fire. They bought stock as though investing were risk free.)
• begins with that and expresses a demand, request, requirement, or suggestion (Examples: The college requires that incoming students register in person. Lucille asks that Tom arrive early.)
that's subjunctive mood.

The present tense of subjunctive uses the base form of the verb. (That means the verb’s basic form: come, arrive, run, swing, think, etc.) The past tense uses the indicative mood except for be, which uses were for all subjects, singular and plural.

Maryn, dimly remembering subjunctive from Latin, where she learned most of her English

Please send this to The New York Times. They're continually getting it wrong and it drives me bonkers. Great explanation.

Kind regards,

Jack

boron · Mar 4, 2010

Maryn said:
It's were. Here's why:

When a verb
• begins with if and expresses a condition that does not exist (Examples: If I were queen, you would bow. If we were any luckier, we'd be rich.)

Does this mean, were should be used in all "conditional if clauses"? Or only in those in which a condition is never likely to be fullfilled?

If I were not late, I would catch the bus.

boron · Mar 4, 2010

Brad said:
I read this in the book The Senses of Man by Joan Steen Wilentz. According to her it is more plasma than solid. So maybe it is like soft jello? It's hard to say without many plasma-like things to compare it to. I wrote a short blurb about it.

Newborn's brain is completely solid and all structures can be clearly seen, like in these photographs.

"Jello brain", including the green one on that picture is probably - a food.

"Was" or "Were" for Hypothetical Singular?

Brad

Maryn

I Tried

Brad

padnar

Maryn

I Tried

mkcbunny

Bufflehead

CynV

The Original Cyn

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred

Brad

Sheila Muirenn

Rebuilding My Brain

Jack Newcastle

Certified Malcontent

boron

Health writer

boron

Health writer