Reading my unpublished book...

[Newguy1428]

If I read my unpublished book to one of my second grade art classrooms...I am a children's art teacher...am I soiling the first publication rights?

[alleycat]

Not unless one of your second graders in an intellectual properties attorney . . .

Just kidding. The answer is no.

[suki]

If I read my unpublished book to one of my second grade art classrooms...I am a children's art teacher...am I soiling the first publication rights?

No issue of rights I think, but I wonder how the kids' parents or the school will feel about you reading your unpublished stories to the class instead of doing art projects or reading published books to them.

Consider what your purpose is, and if it has the children's best interests and proper curricular focus.

If I had a child in the class, I might feel that you were placing your interests above proper curricular and class needs. ;) So, just be careful to follow established curricular guidelines and to keep in mind curricular and classroom expectations.

~suki

[Canotila]

I don't think it would be a problem. I worked in a pre-school and the director would write books and read them out loud for the kids. The parents LOVED it. She did the illustrations herself, and she is an amazing artist (masters in art and BA in education).

Actually, it was really cool because she used her first one as a jumping off point for a new unit we were starting. We were doing a unit on stories, and the final project for the unit was for the children to write and illustrate a book of their own, on paper they made and bound into a book themselves. Having the director read one of her original creations to them got them really pumped to do it.

[Wayne K]

I'd run that past the administrators at the school if I were you. You never know how the school might respond. People get uptight about everything.

[Newguy1428]

Hi Suki,

As an art teacher, I am required to model the behavior of someone competent in my field. Sharing my work fosters inspiration in my students. It encourages my students to participate in picture book creation. The added bonus is when I show my rough sketches and tell the story of the development of the characters, design, and plot; the research I did and inspiration from other authors. As you can see, sharing a work is of paramount educational interest. As for protecting my derivitive rights to the stories and characters...my students won't enter their work in competition with me for some time.

As for conflict of interests, so long as I get permission from the local school council, I can sell my book to my students. The limit on money generated from sales is $2,500.00 in my school system. Children are always asking to buy my greeting cards, to have my samples and if I don't watch them, abscond with my sketchbook. The problem is the market is so small, I would rather concentrate my efforts on larger markets. I sell my greeting cards under the table to my colleagues, but don't tell anyone.

Thanks everyone.

[Newguy1428]

I'd run that past the administrators at the school if I were you. You never know how the school might respond. People get uptight about everything.

You're kidding? My principal has offered to sell my artwork alongside donated and student work at the yearly benefit.

Further more, to read my book to my students fosters a love of reading. To read a work I author reveals that mastering reading and writing is a way to learn and communicate about art. It show that art is part of the printed word. No fooling.

This has been fun. Forgive me, if my laid back nature disguises my professional knowledge. Slow and steady wins the race.

[Smish]

Hi Suki,

As an art teacher, I am required to model the behavior of someone competent in my field. Sharing my work fosters inspiration in my students. It encourages my students to participate in picture book creation. The added bonus is when I show my rough sketches and tell the story of the development of the characters, design, and plot; the research I did and inspiration from other authors. As you can see, sharing a work is of paramount educational interest. As for protecting my derivitive rights to the stories and characters...my students won't enter their work in competition with me for some time.

As for conflict of interests, so long as I get permission from the local school council, I can sell my book to my students. The limit on money generated from sales is $2,500.00 in my school system. Children are always asking to buy my greeting cards, to have my samples and if I don't watch them, abscond with my sketchbook. The problem is the market is so small, I would rather concentrate my efforts on larger markets. I sell my greeting cards under the table to my colleagues, but don't tell anyone.

Thanks everyone.

You're reading and SELLING your unpublished books to your elementary students? Really? Um... that's... well... yeah. I don't even know what to say.

[Wayne K]

You're kidding? My principal has offered to sell my artwork alongside donated and student work at the yearly benefit.

Further more, to read my book to my students fosters a love of reading. To read a work I author reveals that mastering reading and writing is a way to learn and communicate about art. It show that art is part of the printed word. No fooling.

This has been fun. Forgive me, if my laid back nature disguises my professional knowledge. Slow and steady wins the race.
Without knowing the content of the book I would say ask the administrators, so no I'm not kidding. A teacher doesn't get to decide for themselves what kids read in a lot of schools. Books need to be approved by school boards. Its safer to err on the side of caution, especially when you can lose your job over it.

[Newguy1428]

You're reading and SELLING your unpublished books to your elementary students? Really? Um... that's... well... yeah. I don't even know what to say.


Well, Smish, you have taken away my right to edit my entire post. So, it's your duty to say something!?! or, retract.

[Newguy1428]

Without knowing the content of the book I would say ask the administrators, so no I'm not kidding. A teacher doesn't get to decide for themselves what kids read in a lot of schools. Books need to be approved by school boards. Its safer to err on the side of caution, especially when you can lose your job over it.

Reading a PB is like telling a story. I teach art and I show the process of creating a book with illustrations. If stories about being frightened by animals and secular tellings about Santa were controversial, then call me guilty.

Not that having a book banned or being fired over what's a good story will do anything to harm my writer's credentials. Nor will it hamper my ability to get a job teaching at schools in the ghetto or anywhere else for that matter. My ability to survive and prosper in places where most people would never think of going surprises me. Ever drive past a hundred abandoned buildings on the way to work? Ever been told you can't leave at quitting time because the police are searching for people armed with automatic rifles and a few people are dead and dying. I am not afraid of losing my job over a book. Nope. Not intimidated easily.

My biography is looking tough lately.

[brainstorm77]

Well, Smish, you have taken away my right to edit my entire post. So, it's your duty to say something!?! or, retract.

Huh? People are aloud to quote when responding. I'm really not getting what you're saying here with this?

[nitaworm]

Goodness, all this picking going around. I'm a mom of four and I wouldn't mind if you read to my kids. Heck and told them that you wrote it. Maybe, just maybe they would be inspired to do it also. The answer to your question is - your pub rights are safe. Keep doing what you are doing. Good luck to you.

[Smish]

Well, Smish, you have taken away my right to edit my entire post. So, it's your duty to say something!?! or, retract.

What are you talking about? I haven't done anything inappropriate, and I haven't taken away any of your so-called rights. You made a post, and I quoted it (and asked you a question which you opted not to answer... which is, of course, your "right").

Watch out, I'm about to quote you again...

Reading a PB is like telling a story. I teach art and I show the process of creating a book with illustrations. If stories about being frightened by animals and secular tellings about Santa were controversial, then call me guilty.

Not that having a book banned or being fired over what's a good story will do anything to harm my writer's credentials. Nor will it hamper my ability to get a job teaching at schools in the ghetto. My ability to survive and prosper in places where most people would never think of going surprises me. Ever drive past a hundred abandoned buildings on the way to work? Ever been told you can't leave at quitting time because the police are searching for people armed with automatic rifles and a few people are dead and dying. I am not afraid of losing my job over a book. Nope. Not intimidated easily.

My biography is looking tough lately.

Your posts are a convoluted mess of assumptions and off-topic statements, so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be getting from them.

First of all, I truly am sorry to hear that you've worked in a school where there was a shooting. That's terribly sad, in so many ways.

However, you've made assumptions about strangers on the internet. You don't know where we come from or what we do for a living. For example, I've chosen to work as a poverty lawyer (currently as a public defender, but I've worked the civil side, as well), so I've pretty much seen it all, and I've seen the actual rights of people stripped away. And one thing that burns me up is an attitude that poor people don't have to treated in the same way as wealthier citizens.

And Newguy, based on your statements (particularly, "Nor will it hamper my ability to get a job teaching at schools in the ghetto"), it seems to me that you are saying you can get away with more because of where you teach. Poor children deserve as good an education as kids in private school. Do they get it? No. But as a teacher, it's your duty to do your damndest to fight for that.

For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with you reading your books to your students, so long as the administration is aware and supports it (and so long as you're also providing examples of excellent published children's literature/illustrations). I do have a HUGE problem with you selling them your unpublished books, even more so now that I know you teach poor kids. You are in a position of power and influence, and you shouldn't take advantage of that. Quite a lot of my work is done in juvenile courts, and the majority of the kids who end up in the system have been taken advantage of by every adult in their lives, from their parents to their teachers to their case workers. So, it's a topic that flat out pisses me off.

Anyway, you said it was my "duty to say something", and now I have.

:)Smish

[Wayne K]

What finger pointing? My advice was to be careful. It had nothing to do with the work or the writer.

[suki]

Like others, I expressed concerns, double-fold now that you have stated you are selling your products - greeting cards, unpublished book, etc. - although it is unclear whether you are actually selling to your students, or just aware you can... Even if legal, it strikes me as inappropriate to sell your products to your students from the classroom, espcially if this is a public school.

But even if not selling products, just be careful that you are providing proper curricular focus, and not a self-promotion or commercial focus, in the classroom.

I have no problem with classroom projects that encourage children to create their own art and even their own books, but it doesn't sound like that is what is happening - ie, as described it doesn't sound like a unit on amateur book making, but a teacher using his position to market his own work and products. That feels uncomfortable to me, so I would just suggest being cautious.

~suki

[Cyia]

If you're selling the book to students, then one has to assume it's in some physical and mass produced form - thus published, and on a very small scale, distributed.

You aren't talking about an unpublished book. What you have now is a self-published book.

[Old Hack]

Oh, look. I have put my Mod Hat on. Despite the rather jaunty angle at which I wear it, it is a hat of some significance and one worth taking seriously.


1) If members were not allowed to quote one another at AbsoluteWrite, we would not have that particular feature enabled on the board. I don't think it's been abused in this instance.

2) I see no "finger-pointing": just a few concerns which have been clearly expressed; some rather good advice; and the rumblings of a bit of a disagreement starting here. I am sure that we can all consider that good advice, and perhaps deconstruct it some more if we really want to, like the intelligent people we all are.

3) I really don't like bickering. My patience runs out very quickly when I come across people who are bickering. So please let's not go down that route.


As you were.

[Newguy1428]

This is great! It's like the old telephone game. Write the following and be accussed of selling books to children, not that anyone here wants to sell books to children.

Hey! Hey! I am quoting myself. WHOO HOO! OH yeah! Oh Yeah!

Hi Suki,

As an art teacher, I am required to model the behavior of someone competent in my field. Sharing my work fosters inspiration in my students. It encourages my students to participate in picture book creation. The added bonus is when I show my rough sketches and tell the story of the development of the characters, design, and plot; the research I did and inspiration from other authors. As you can see, sharing a work is of paramount educational interest. As for protecting my derivitive rights to the stories and characters...my students won't enter their work in competition with me for some time.

As for conflict of interests, so long as I get permission from the local school council, I can sell my book to my students. The limit on money generated from sales is $2,500.00 in my school system. Children are always asking to buy my greeting cards, to have my samples and if I don't watch them, abscond with my sketchbook. The problem is the market is so small, I would rather concentrate my efforts on larger markets. I sell my greeting cards under the table to my colleagues, but don't tell anyone.

Thanks everyone.

When I say colleagues, I am reffering to adult co-workers. Is everybody here a tabloid reporter?

[Smish]

NewGuy:

You quoted yourself, but apparently failed to read what you had written in your own quote.

What you DID write (and QUOTE) was: As for conflict of interests, so long as I get permission from the local school council, I can sell my book to my students.

STUDENTS. You wrote that. Not me. Not anyone else. And your very first post in this thread mentioned second graders. So, there was no tabloid journalism here. There were valid comments based on your own words. And you've had plenty of opportunity to set the record straight. Instead, you've resorted to childish, antagonistic, and pointless posts.

:)Smish

[Stacia Kane]

When I was in fifth grade, my history teacher wrote a novel and sold it to MacMillan.

(http://www.amazon.com/Its-About-Time-Bernal-Payne/dp/0027702308/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267674924&sr=8-2 "It's About Time" by Bernal Payne.)

It was pretty exciting; we all got to special order the book through the school, and Mr. Payne did a big signing. I really liked him and I really liked his book.


Speaking as a parent, I'd be quite happy to have the school set up such an event for a teacher who happens to have gotten published. I'd think it was inspiring, and I'd think it was great that time was set aside for my kid to participate.

However, I would be considerably less than thrilled to discover that instead of teaching my daughter art in a hands-on fashion, her art teacher was instead spending class time reading his unpublished book(s) to her, and explaining in detail how he drew the pictures and why. I would be especially displeased--to the point of complaining to the administration--if said teacher were using class time as an opportunity to shill his self-published book to a captive audience made up of very young children. I would not be pleased to be asked to buy such a book at any time, in fact.

Using books as an example for an art class is a great idea. I would suggest (and expect) that the art teacher would get together with the English teacher, find out what book the children are already studying, and use it as an example; this gives them, perhaps, a deeper insight into that book (thus improving their grades in both subjects) and ties both subjects to a common theme.

Then having them write, illustrate, and create a book on their own would be another fantastic cross-subject project.

The difference is they'd be studying a professionally published book, and their time in art class would be devoted to art. I believe strongly that hands-on art class is very important to kids, and since a lot of kids only get art class once a week, I'd hate for them to not get to actually DO art because they're listening to their teacher try to sell them his book.

Sorry, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I agree you should check with the administration, and again, as a parent I for one wouldn't be at all pleased with your lesson plan.


(And by the way, if you believe Santa Claus isn't controversial in schools these days, I'd love to live where you are, because at my daughter's school--at a lot of schools, in fact--Santa is a taboo topic.)

Best of luck.