Too dark for MG?

SheilaJG · Feb 19, 2010

Hi everybody,

Quick question. I'm working on an upper-MG novel. The main character is 12 years-old and he has a 10 year-old brother who is special. It doesn't take place in our world, but it's similar.

So I'm nearing the end and I have this terrible baddie who threatens to dissect the 10 year-old. Now, I know that execution makes a big difference, and I'm not planning a Neal Shusterman Unwind sort of dissection (plus, that's YA), but is there any way you can envision that this would be okay? Or is it just too dark for MG.

He doesn't actually get dissected, but he hears the threat and then he's strapped to the table, unconscious. The brother is terrified.

I don't how I came up with this. I hated biology as a kid. Oh, maybe that's why! I always felt bad for the frogs.

Anyway, thanks!

alleycat · Feb 19, 2010

I think it would be perfectly acceptable in MG. Threats are one thing; graphic depictions of extreme violence would be another. Although, actually, kids are probably less bothered by blood and gore than adults; but it's adults who are going to be making the decision to publish this or not, and possibly whether to buy it.

Sage · Feb 19, 2010

I think it's fine as long as he's not going into detail about the planned dissection.

Toothpaste · Feb 19, 2010

Not a problem. I have a similar scene in which my heroine is held down on a table and about to be tortured with sharp pointy instruments (but lucky for her something happens to alter plans). Kids enjoy such life and death situations, adventures aren't mild.

(again, as you and alleycat have already mentioned, it's all in the execution of course, but don't forget that even RL Stine is MG)

alleycat · Feb 19, 2010

And let's not forget The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman. It's listed for the 9 to 12 age group.

Danthia · Feb 20, 2010

I mention people being dissected in my book, and it's upper MG. My editor actually had me add a few more dark details. And honestly, what I actually do to my characters was worse than dissection, so kids can handle a lot of dark things. That's part of the fun

Ivan_B · Feb 20, 2010

The threat of dissection is absolutely fine, just don't have that dissection happen, or don't actually see it. The thing is, if you end up describing torture/pain well, it's terrifying and too harrowing for MG kids. If you don't describe it well, it's not worth reading.
Hope that helps!

SheilaJG · Feb 20, 2010

Thanks everybody, I feel better now. I just have to find that special place - scary enough to be compelling, but not too graphic.

Torgo · Feb 22, 2010

Alex Rider ends up in the same predicament in Anthony Horowitz's Point Blanc. Horowitz is fine for 9+, I'd say; Alex himself is 14.

Little1 · Apr 13, 2010

I am also wondering about this. In my MG MS is parental abuse ok? The villan of the MS gets slaped twice by his mom he also mentions having a lamp thrown at him by his mom and he also has bruses on him (the MC notices when he brushes up agents something). Is this to dark for MG?

Toothpaste · Apr 13, 2010

Kitty Pryde · Apr 13, 2010

Little1 said:
I am also wondering about this. In my MG MS is parental abuse ok? The villan of the MS gets slaped twice by his mom he also mentions having a lamp thrown at him by his mom and he also has bruses on him (the MC notices when he brushes up agents something). Is this to dark for MG?

Have you read Harry Potter?

abctriplets · Apr 14, 2010

{sarcasm}I'm not sure if I'd allow my kids to read a book where the villain gets slapped.{/sarcasm}

MsJudy · Apr 14, 2010

Okay, I just have to share a personal story here.

My darling but rather odd son wrote a note last year. Something like "My name is Bob. I'm in fourth grade in Mrs. X's class (used a real teacher's name). I've been murdered and my body is behind the dumpster." etc. etc.

Now I of course thought like a writer: Oh, what a creative child! What a dark sense of humor! He's going to be a writer, just like Mommy!

Someone found the note on campus. Next thing I know, the principal is asking me if my son should be in counseling...

Kids are WAY more comfortable with dark stories than the grown-ups in charge are.

delilah · Apr 23, 2010

I think it's perfectly acceptable. I have something similar in my book. And... well... I read IT and Pet Sematary when I was 12. I loved being scared at that age.

Kelsey · Apr 23, 2010

I work at Barnes and Noble, and we constantly have kids coming in asking for "scary book." There just aren't enough to recommend...

CheG · Nov 7, 2010

I am reviving this thread because I need me some help!

I have continued the story I started with the September prompt http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191599 and infact it is a continuation of this very story line.

The basic plot is Calvin foils/finds a serial killer. It is ort of a MG mash-up of Medium meets Criminal Minds and it is going to go to some pretty dark places. What they are I don't know- I'm a total pantser. But Calvin deals with all sorts of ghosts and tracks a serial killer who targets kids younger than he is.

Sooooo. 20 (handwritten) pages into the continuing adventures of Calvin I am losing faith! It seems like this may be too much for MG and provided I finish and submit it any agent will just go WTF and toss it.

So is a 12 year old amature slueth tracking a serial killer too much???

Help me!!

Amadan · Nov 7, 2010

A twelve-year-old amateur sleuth tracking a serial child killer sounds like a pretty interesting story.

I don't think it's too dark for MG, though it's certainly skirting the edges. Again, it all depends on how it's implemented. If you add references to sexual abuse or graphic murders, I might question whether it's really appropriate for MG. But if all that's said explicitly is that the villain kills children, then you can probably get away with it.

Morrell · Nov 7, 2010

For Che and other "dark" mg writers... was just at a SCBWI conference & agent Bree Ogden (Martin Literary Management) said she is very interested in dark middle grade. She mentioned the show Dexter as an example. You might want to query her.

CheG · Nov 7, 2010

RuthD said:
For Che and other "dark" mg writers... was just at a SCBWI conference & agent Bree Ogden (Martin Literary Management) said she is very interested in dark middle grade. She mentioned the show Dexter as an example. You might want to query her.

Thanks! Added the page to favorites!

I guess my second concern is that my book doesn't (so far- it is in it's infancy) have any comedic relief to cut the dark a little. And honestly- I know why writers in kid lit DO that so it isn't so intense- but I don't want to do it. I think it distracts from the mood and as a kid I LOVED drama (actually melodrama...) so I'm not sure if it NEEDS some cemedy or if I can go full throttle scary/dark on it. I mean Criminal Minds is pretty unrelenting and that's what I love but I wonder how many little kids are watching it...

Ferret · Nov 12, 2010

Che, if you have not read Neil Gaiman's The Graveyard Book, please do so. It's a great book that's very dark but also very sweet. It starts out with a mass murder and, as the title suggests, takes place mostly in a graveyard. (Yes, I know it's already been mentioned in this thread, but I wanted to recommend it.)

Angela_785 · Nov 12, 2010

The Skeleton Man is quite dark--about a girl whose parents have been kidnapped and she knows the man pretending to be her uncle means her harm...I don't want to say too much because it's a great read, but it's one of those 'tension from page one' type books and has a dark, disurbing vibe throughout.

MsJudy · Nov 13, 2010

Haven't read Skeleton Man, have read Graveyard Book.

One thing to think about is to use an Alfred Hitchcock touch as opposed to a Wes Craven approach.

If most of the violence is implied, hinted at, carried out off-stage, you can be pretty darn scary without problems.

I would also suggest that the more of a magical element is included, the more you can get away with. Gaiman's work is fantastical, not realistic. That puts a bit of distance between the reader's real world and the story world. Law and Order uses the details of the city to make its world seem to be the real world, so the violence is much harder to put at a safe distance.

CheG · Nov 13, 2010

What I'm working on is a continuation of "The Rules" which a few of you read in the SYW. It is the same case- a serial killer, and so it is very real world violence, but since Calvin is a medium I'm hoping that is enough of a fantastical element.

I'm not going to go into super gory details, and there is no sexual component to the crimes, but I think it may come down to Calvin being kidnapped by the killer or killers.

Too dark for MG?

SheilaJG

alleycat

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Sage

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Toothpaste

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alleycat

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Danthia

Ivan_B

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SheilaJG

Torgo

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Little1

Hakuna Matata

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue

abctriplets

MsJudy

delilah

Kelsey

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CheG

Amadan

Morrell

CheG

Ferret

Dook!

Angela_785

MsJudy

CheG