Carrot On the End of the Stick

FJAR0009 · Feb 17, 2010

Teasing the reader - it can either make them more interested or tee them off. Has anyone here ever teased a reader by dangling something in front of them, like having a character not be themselves for awhile, or foreshadowing something exciting chapters ahead? And if you have, do you think it's a good idea?

On one hand, it can make the reader want to fly through the pages to see the big 'reveal,' or, in some cases, the 'return.'

However, at the same time, a reader might be frustrated with the wait and put the story aside.

So, what do you guys think, and have you ever pulled the "carrot-on-a-stick" technique out?

Caitlin Black · Feb 17, 2010

In my first book, it was in 3rd omni, and I kept changing between the heroes and this guy named Brian. Brian would have his own little section at the end of the chapter. Mostly he wasn't doing anything of importance, which made the reader (hopefully) think, "Why are we reading about this guy?"

Then the reveal about him is towards the end of the book, when the heroes meet him.

I think it worked pretty well. I love books that do that sort of thing, which is where I got the idea. Or maybe I got the idea from TV shows? Who knows. But I think it worked out alright.

That's the only example I can think of, really.

Libbie · Feb 17, 2010

I'm sure there are examples of this working well. I haven't yet read one, though. It usually comes across as gimmicky, and I prefer nuanced writing to gimmicky writing.

WildScribe · Feb 17, 2010

I've read it done well and I've read it done badly. It can definitely come across as gimmicky, but in certain cases, when done really, REALLY well, I think it can work.

Elias Graves · Feb 17, 2010

Leaving a reader a littled puzzled over a point or character for a bit is a terrific technique. Like any other technique, however, its value is determined by the skill of the author, both in the execution as well as the writer's instincts regarding how mysterious the point is and how long the wait for the payoff.
If the author forces the reader to wait too long for an unsatisfying resolution, then failure is at hand.
When a coquettish walk results in an, ahem, happy ending, the reader lights a smoke and thanks the author for a job well done.

EG

shaldna · Feb 18, 2010

Ugh. Inkheart.

I had the ending figured out about two hundred pages before we actually got there, and it just kept building and building to suspense that never quite happened. Such a disapointment.

blacbird · Feb 18, 2010

Try using a turnip.

caw

shaldna · Feb 18, 2010

blacbird said:
Try using a turnip.

caw

that's a black eye waiting to happen.

NeuroFizz · Feb 18, 2010

Some of the better treatments of this type of thing are when they are of a subtle nature, so the reader may not see and react to the carrot immediately, but recognize it later when it plays out. This can give the readers one of those wonderful forehead slapping, "I should have seen that coming" type of reactions. To me, as a reader and writer, those are the most enjoyable ones. If I can see the string suspending the carrot, and who is holding it, I get pissed off.

Danthia · Feb 18, 2010

It depends on how it's done. When it's something the author is clearly building toward, I love it. But when the author is clearly dangling the carrot, it annoys me. Like when the protag knows what's going on but doesn't tell the reader, and they hide things.

You can also drag things out too long. I find this happens a lot with action. (and I've done it myself). We're trying to keep having things go wrong, but it gets to a point where enough is enough already.

If things are keeping your protag from something and that's all it's doing, it's often time to stop and just get to the point. If you're continuing to reveal stuff as well as keep your protag from something, then it usually works.

Namatu · Feb 18, 2010

NeuroFizz said:
Some of the better treatments of this type of thing are when they are of a subtle nature, so the reader may not see and react to the carrot immediately, but recognize it later when it plays out. This can give the readers one of those wonderful forehead slapping, "I should have seen that coming" type of reactions. To me, as a reader and writer, those are the most enjoyable ones. If I can see the string suspending the carrot, and who is holding it, I get pissed off.

This. This is the only way it works for me. I like realizing later on, "Oh! Those things meant more than I thought!" Then I can read it all again and enjoy it even more.

lucidzfl · Feb 18, 2010

NeuroFizz said:
Some of the better treatments of this type of thing are when they are of a subtle nature, so the reader may not see and react to the carrot immediately, but recognize it later when it plays out. This can give the readers one of those wonderful forehead slapping, "I should have seen that coming" type of reactions. To me, as a reader and writer, those are the most enjoyable ones. If I can see the string suspending the carrot, and who is holding it, I get pissed off.

Man, I really really hope I pull that off.

In my book, its made of 7 separate sections. After every section, is a 2-4 page flashback. Once the reader gets to the final chapter, they get the final flashback, which took place just before the book actually began, so the reader has the full story now. The story is, my character is actually insane...

So, its kind of important that I'm able to make that work...

RemusShepherd · Feb 18, 2010

FJAR0009 said:
Teasing the reader - it can either make them more interested or tee them off. Has anyone here ever teased a reader by dangling something in front of them, like having a character not be themselves for awhile, or foreshadowing something exciting chapters ahead? And if you have, do you think it's a good idea?

On one hand, it can make the reader want to fly through the pages to see the big 'reveal,' or, in some cases, the 'return.'

However, at the same time, a reader might be frustrated with the wait and put the story aside.

So, what do you guys think, and have you ever pulled the "carrot-on-a-stick" technique out?

I think this works best when you turn it into a juggling routine.

Have the reader wait for one mystery to be solved -- for one ball to drop -- while you're solving another mystery, and setting up a new mystery, all at the same time. If you keep rewarding your reader they won't get frustrated and they'll learn that their patience will pay dividends.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 18, 2010

Not in the sense you mean. I think every good novel uses foreshadowing, but not as a tease. Good foreshadowing only works well if the reader doesn't recognize it as foreshadowing until after the fact.

As a reader, the last thing I want is a writer who teases. I want surprises and good foreshadowing that I only see after the fact, not before.

lucidzfl · Feb 18, 2010

Yeah James, I'm with you. I hope there is no foreshadowing in my book at all. I want a fight club sort of ending where you go, holy shit, did all that really make sense? And it forces you to look back over the book and read it in a whole different light.

Bookewyrme · Feb 18, 2010

I think a good example would be Agatha Christie's books. Normally, when I read a mystery, I can figure out who did it, or at least have only two candidates for the crime by half-way through the book. I have never once read one of Christie's books and figured out "whodunnit" before she reveals it. But when she explains why, I always think "oooh....that's what was happening in that scene. gotcha." and not "wait, you didn't show that! That's cheating!" like with some mystery writers.

That's the only example I can think of off the top of my head though.

blacbird · Feb 18, 2010

lucidzfl said:
Yeah James, I'm with you. I hope there is no foreshadowing in my book at all. I want a fight club sort of ending where you go, holy shit, did all that really make sense? And it forces you to look back over the book and read it in a whole different light.

But that's exactly how well-done foreshadowing works. The reader doesn't see the signs at the time, and only realizes at the dénouement that they were there all the time. What you emphatically don't want is an ending that arrives from the literary Oort cloud, with no connection to anything earlier in the book.

When that happens, the last thing I want to do is go back and read it again. I'll head for a different, and hopefully better, book.

caw

DrZoidberg · Feb 18, 2010

I have one all the time. But I let them get it now and again, and then introduce a new carrot. I work under the assumption that without a carrot, no reader will turn a page.

lucidzfl · Feb 18, 2010

blacbird said:
But that's exactly how well-done foreshadowing works. The reader doesn't see the signs at the time, and only realizes at the dénouement that they were there all the time. What you emphatically don't want is an ending that arrives from the literary Oort cloud, with no connection to anything earlier in the book.

When that happens, the last thing I want to do is go back and read it again. I'll head for a different, and hopefully better, book.

caw

Well I had to carefully orchestrate the book so that Mitch's insanity makes perfect sense once you know and you start to question what really happened. What went on in only his mind, and what went on in reality. Others, around him, obviously caught on to his insanity, but didn't tell him, because they needed to use him.

It also highlights the fact that you don't have to be a good person, or even sane, to become a hero, even an unwitting one.

Who knows if any of it is good though

aadams73 · Feb 18, 2010

I guess I'm dense or something, because isn't this carrot-dangling ultimately what all novels do? Don't we read to the end to see what the pay-off for all the set up is going to be?

Or am I just reading this wrong?

DrZoidberg · Feb 18, 2010

aadams73 said:
I guess I'm dense or something, because isn't this carrot-dangling ultimately what all novels do? Don't we read to the end to see what the pay-off for all the set up is going to be?

Or am I just reading this wrong?

A reader could be reading because they admire the prose (ha ha yeah right).

backslashbaby · Feb 18, 2010

My WIP involves the MC having to figure things out constantly. It's the central focus of the plot, I'd say. But you see what she has to work with as you read (sometimes more -- it's omni) so hopefully you enjoy the puzzle or the 'what would you do?' of it.

One of my biggest pet peeves in fiction is when I have no way to put anything together, as a reader. Things are too mysterious for too long and I end up not having a clue what is happening any more. I know I'll find out eventually, but I like to be somewhat grounded as I read.

If readers can't even answer 'what is happening?' at all, there is a problem

aadams73 · Feb 18, 2010

DrZoidberg said:
A reader could be reading because they admire the prose (ha ha yeah right).

I'm greedy. I want good prose and a good story.

backslashbaby said:
If readers can't even answer 'what is happening?' at all, there is a problem

If I can't answer "what is happening?" I know I'm reading a James Joyce novel.

FJAR0009 · Feb 18, 2010

lucidzfl said:
Well I had to carefully orchestrate the book so that Mitch's insanity makes perfect sense once you know and you start to question what really happened. What went on in only his mind, and what went on in reality. Others, around him, obviously caught on to his insanity, but didn't tell him, because they needed to use him.

It also highlights the fact that you don't have to be a good person, or even sane, to become a hero, even an unwitting one.

Who knows if any of it is good though

Well, it's got me interested just from those tidbits.

aadams73 said:
I guess I'm dense or something, because isn't this carrot-dangling ultimately what all novels do? Don't we read to the end to see what the pay-off for all the set up is going to be?

Or am I just reading this wrong?

Well, my personal experience with the whole carrot/stick deal is tricky. I'm on my sequel, and after the awesome things my character did in the first novel, they've put that life they lived aside in pursuit of something more 'normal' and 'practical' - mostly because he's young and there seems to be no reason or way to enter that lifestyle again. So, what's going on is, the reader obviously knows that the MC has to become that person they once were, so the part where the reader is "chasing the stick" is the first few chapters where the reader is trying to acclimate to a new life, school, town, etc. However, throughout it, I do have action happening that is slowly being explained.

backslashbaby · Feb 18, 2010

aadams73 said:
I'm greedy. I want good prose and a good story.

If I can't answer "what is happening?" I know I'm reading a James Joyce novel.

Very true!

Carrot On the End of the Stick

Burning down the wicked garden.

Wild one

Worst song played on ugliest guitar

Slave to the Wordcount

Unrealistically Optimistic

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

The grad students did it

Danthia

Lost in mental space.

Back from the dead

Back from the dead

Imagined half of it.

aka TomOfSweden

Back from the dead

A Work in Progress

aka TomOfSweden

~~~~*~~~~

A Work in Progress

Burning down the wicked garden.

~~~~*~~~~

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