Do you have to include word count?

I don't think you HAVE to include it, but if you don't, they'll get suspicious and will probably know you're not including it for a reason, which is going to set off some red flags.

You should include it. If they're someone who is going to automatically reject you because of wordcount, wouldn't you rather they did it at the querying stage than after having requested from you?

I also agree that it looks suspicious if you don't include it.

There is no 'wrong' or 'right' word count for a YA novel. I mean, there are some seriously LONG novels out there that debuted. And besides, it's got to be the story, not the word count. The only problem you'd have if it was only about 15,000 words.

Lilly Maiden said:

Then my question then turns to, is 120k acceptable and okay for a YA epic fantasy novel?

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Yes, it's too long. Consider breaking it in half.

I like the idea of breaking it in half. Or maybe you could query saying that it is 120k but could be broken into two parts?

Lilly Maiden said:

Hi, my YA epic fantasy novel was completed at 146k words, and I whittled it down to just under 120k. However, I know that this is still a high number for a first time author. I want to know if I have to include the word count in my query letter if the agent doesn't specifically ask to see it. Thank you!

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Include the wordcount. Any agent who cares about wordcount is going to assume you are leaving it out on purpose, and then they are going to wonder how too long it is. So, IMO, you really won't fool anyone.

Lilly Maiden said:

Then my question then turns to, is 120k acceptable and okay for a YA epic fantasy novel?

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This is a constantly moving target. My words of wisdom are, for a YA fantasy, even epic, the further away you get from 100,000 words, the more agents who will auto-reject or read with an eye even more toward rejecting than usual. It's a sliding scale - with a wordcount of 120,000, your query needs to be fantastic, as do your pages. if the agent can see from the query, or the pages, that your book needs a lot of revision for wordiness, or info dumps, etc., then it's less likely the agent will ask for more/read on.

But if your query is fantastic, and your pages airtight (really, your whole book needs to be airtight) then the agent is more likely to get hooked and forget about the wordcount while reading.

So, at 120,000 words, some agents will autoreject the query. Or ask for a partial but be even harder to hook than usual. But there are some agents who really don't care about wordcounts.

And while high, your wordcount is not outrageous.

So, if you really have tightened and polished and there is not one spare word, not one unnecessary scene or character, then all you can do is query it and hope for the best.

I wouldn't advise breaking it into two books unless there is a logical and satisfactory conclusion for book one, so that it could stand alone. A dependent two book series, IMO, will be even harder to sell than one 120,00-word novel.

good luck.

~suki

I wrote a 120,000 word YA fantasy that got an agent and I can quite categorically say that 120,000 words is not automatically too long for a debut YA novel.

Lilly Maiden - if your story is fast-paced, tightly written and action packed then 120,000 is not going to be an automatic no-no for an agent.

There are very few agents who will auto-reject on word count (although most will have auto rejects for genres they don't represent). Those that auto-reject anything for any reason will say so in their submission guidelines. Most agents however are looking for a good story that they can sell. Period.

MM

there is a trend now for much longer YA novels than in previous years, with many of them being 80k plus. There are alot of YA books out there that are over 100k, and given that it's an epic fantasy I don't think it's necessarily too long.

In terms of the word count, you don't HAVE to state your word count, but it gives a better indication to the editor of what to expect. And besides, you'll have to state the word count on teh title page of your MS anyway, so why not just state it in your query letter.

don't leave out the word count. they'll assume it's crazy-high, and 120 is high but NOT crazy-high.

They don't normally ask to include word count because it's something they assume you should do. Kind of like how they don't ask for you to know English and grammar and be able to write, because, hey, you're supposed to know that.

Include the word count. Doesn't matter wheter it's 120,000 - if it's good and it hooks the agent then you've got yourself a deal.

But is it 120,000 after you edited it from its first draft or did you finish it recently and it's 120,000 and you've decided that's the end of it? If you haven't done a second draft or third, then there's a good chance that working on your novel could break down the word count.

Hope this helps

if it's a good enough book and the word count is an issue then a publisher MAY ask you to edit it down a bit. But worry about that later.

Lilly Maiden said:

It was originally 146,000 words, and after a third edit, I wrestled it down to 120,000. I'm going to go through a few more times of course and see if I can get it down even more. I'm just worried that agents will see the number 120,000 at the start of the query and auto reject me.

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Nah, they won't auto reject you. But if you're worried, what you can do is include the word count in the query after you've talked about what you book is about. That way you would have hooked the agent already before they see the word count

I would definitely state the word count. My thought is that even if an agent thought it was too long, it couldn't realistically be too long by much so if they liked your plot, they would likely just request a revision/word cut. Though, this is coming from someone who's first YA will likely be on the short end (around 43,000 words) so I probably don't know what I am talking about

There are agents that won't auto-reject for that word count, but I do know some who would. If you are at the point where you think you can tighten--whether it's at 120k or 80k--I always think tightening is wise. Last week, I finished revisions on a novel of mine wherein I cut almost 12k and ALL of it was line-by-line tightening. I didn't cut ANY chapters, and in most places, no more than a paragraph or two at a time. It was a phrase, line, or word. The pacing improved by that revision.

Yes, I miss some of those words, & there were a few phrases in particular I sort of miss. It made the book better though.

Now, on a very practical front . . . there's no magic number, but I think you're limiting your agent pool by doing a 120k. If you do another round & the book really & truly NEEDS to be 120k, so be it. Often, though, by setting it aside for a few weeks, & then going back to it, we see fat we can trim. I'd try that before I made any other decisions.

JMHO, of course . . .

I would include a word count. As other people have said, I think that they would imagine the word count to be a lot higher then it really is.