Query Woes - Will someone reveal the secret!

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 13, 2010

Query Letters: Hate writing them, can't get published without them. Especially if like me, you're a novelist.

Even so, what if you've done everything in your power that you know of, and all you end up with are a couple handfuls of queries that are boring, long-winded, don't say enough, or just plain BAD?

Well, that's where I am, and I want out of this seemingly endless spiral!
I've done everything I know to do get a good query letter, and I'm still grasping at straws.

I've done every tip that involves "Reading the jacket flap of books to know what to do" and I still don't get the results I need. I'm starting to wonder who's really tougher on queries, the agents and editors who will only respond if interested, or the writers, who from my experience are often as picky as all get out.

I often worry that because I can never seem to develop a query that doesn't read boring, long-winded, not informative enough, etc. It makes me worry that in turn my stories are not good enough if I can't get a stranger who's never read a word of it interested to want to read it.

For those of you who've written good queries, be honest with me, you took classes in marketing haven't you? Because I'm starting to think the only way I'll "master" this is to do the same, and I so don't have tons of money to spare.

How long does it take you to get a handle on queries? If anyone says 10 years or more, tell me what you learned please!

CACTUSWENDY · Feb 13, 2010

If you go to the bottom of the page to the ‘forum jump’ you can scroll down and find all the areas of this place. Most of the SYW areas require the password of ….vista. Good luck.

Okay, that said....what happens when you post your query in the SYW Q hell?
That would be the only suggestion I could offer you. I read through a lot of them just to see the mental aspect of a query. When it finally comes time for me to do mine,......I will be in your boat too. I'm sure not looking forward to it.

Hedgetrimmer · Feb 13, 2010

I feel your pain. Agents are always saying they can gauge from a query whether or not someone can write an engaging novel. I don't believe it though. Sure, if the query is full of typos and grammatical errors, chances are the manuscript is too. But writing about a book is nothing at all like actually writing the thing. A novelist has to have control over voice, character, pacing, plot, structure. None of this (aside from a bit of voice, I suppose) can be captured in a few paragraphs.

But that's the way the system works. There is no secret. My approach has always been not to query too many agents at one time. Send out a few and see what happens. If form rejections come back, rework the query and send out more. Keep doing this. The query should get better. And with a bit of luck (well, maybe a lot of luck), your query will hit the right agent's box at just the right time.

Also, if you aren't doing so already, spend a lot of time researching agents. And not just what types of books they represent. But once you find out the actual titles they've sold, look them up on Amazon and read some sample pages. Find online interviews the agents have given. Find out something about their sensibilities. It doesn't matter how good your book is, or your query. If you're querying a book about a talking rat (Gabriel), and an agent has mentioned in an interview that she has a severe phobia of rats, don't even bother. On the other hand, if she says she has a pet rat, or her child has a pet rat, that bit of information is going to go a lot further than trying to emulate some kind of query formula.

MsJudy · Feb 13, 2010

One problem, I think, is that even a good query is likely to get rejected. A lot. I know some of the people here on AW have sent out perhaps 100 queries, and gotten maybe 4 or 5 requests to see more of the work. That's a terrible percentage, but...if one of those 4 or 5 turns into representation, who cares?

All Query Hell can do is get your query into the best possible shape. That doesn't mean your book will sell. It's frustrating. I'm really good, apparently, at coming up with ideas that aren't particularly WOW! Commercial Hook! Marketable!!! I'm writing for the younger end of the MG audience, and my plots are on the quiet side, sort of cozy, but I can't seem to squeeze them down into chapter book size. So I may have very good books...I'd like to think so...but I'm still having a hard time finding the agent who's a right fit.

The secret is: there is no secret. You keep working at it, and learning new ways to think about it.

And you should keep writing other books. Build your skills with each thing you do.

suki · Feb 13, 2010

In addition to what Hedgetrimmer said, look for agents who tend to actually read the pasted in pages. There are some who are more likely to scroll down - and sometimes there are hints to that in their interviews, blog posts, etc.

And once you do have a query that is pretty good, query widely, especially with a book that will have a smaller appeal - like anthropomorphized animals, the hard truth is that there will be some agents and editors who just will not go for a book with anthropomorphized animals. So, look for the ones who are more likely to, or at least haven't said that it's something that doesn't interest them. A year ago I would have said it will be a tough, tough sale. But Hilary Wagner has recently sold books 1 and 2 in her MG rat series, and the Underneath won a Newbery honor last year, so it shows the market isn't dead for such books.

Now, the tough love part - if you have queried widely, with pages enclosed/pasted in, and you're not even getting any partial requests, then it's not the query - it's the concept or the first chapter. But you can't know that until you have queried widely.

So, follow Hedgetrimmer's plan, but once you have a decent query then query every agent who reps the genre and see what happens.

A passable query and good first pages should get you at least one partial request in 30-40 queries to agents who rep the genre. If you're not getting any, then it's time to revisit the first chapter, or put this one aside to query that new book you've been writng while querying widely.

In the meantime, while you query, work on something else.

~suki

Sage · Feb 13, 2010

Here's what works for me, and may be no help to anyone. This actually starts with my query for Love Sucks, which I had a lot of help from Shady Lane on.

My successful queries have had this formula.

One short, snappy paragraph summing up the problem in a funny or interesting way:

"Trouble follows Bex everywhere she goes. Literally."

"Mailee Jones is about to answer the age old question: "How much love would a love sucker suck if a love sucker fell in love?""

"Twelve-year-old Fiona Hartwell is obsessed with three things: fireflies, ghost hunting, and not dealing with her brother Troy's traumatic brain injury."

Then I do a set-up paragraph with the initial conflict (and introduce the fantasy problem if applicable), then bring in more conflict in the third paragraph. So for Fireflies, paragraph 2 talks about Fiona and Troy and the TBI. Then paragraph 3 talks about her ghost-hunting and mentions that it might get both of them hurt. For LS, I talk about Mai's love draining in paragraph 2, then about the catalyst for her quest to change and the dangers of that quest in paragraph 3. For Trouble, I talk about all the trouble Trouble causes Bex on an everyday basis in P2, then about his dad wanting him to kill her and trying to escape that in P3

Then I add in my paragraph with a title, genre, and wordcount. For Fireflies, I added a little extra cute comment, which everyone seems to love.

This is what seems to work for me. I purposefully set-up Trouble's query with this format, because LS had been so successful. It came more naturally for Fireflies, so maybe that's just the way I write queries now, but it works for me. (Fireflies, my most recent query letter, has gotten me about 25% requests out of my total queries, and not quite 50% requests of my total responses. I was very surprised by this, since the voice is less strong in this one and it's my first attempt at MG or literary, and I didn't expect it to do well). YMMV

Cyia · Feb 13, 2010

Queries are nothing. Try writing loglines.

sissybaby · Feb 13, 2010

In this day of instant messaging, if there ever were a secret, it wouldn't be any more.

I know how difficult it is to work and work and constantly be met with rejection and frustration, but that's a part of the system. With any kind of art form, what appeals to one person isn't necessarily going to appeal to the next guy. You just have to keep giving it your very best, if it's what you really want to do. You can take satisfaction in that, even if you can't take it to the bank.

Gabriel is an engaging story, but it isn't going to appeal to everyone. You just have to keep trying, and be sure you read everything you can find about writing queries. Some agents, and authors, give wonderful advice on their blogs about what they want in a query, as well as the posts here. You need to process all of that information, and then figure out what, if anything, is missing in your own query. And it may not be your query. Trends are always changing, so maybe you could step away from Gabriel for a while and try something new. He'll be there for you when the time is right.

Wish I could offer more, and, as always, that's just my opinion.

Hope you have a blessed day.

Sissy

MJWare · Feb 13, 2010

The members over on the query hell forum really helped me take my query from crappy to stellar.
If you haven't already done so, try letting them tear it apart (a couple of times).

abctriplets · Feb 13, 2010

Heh. I was just about to post a similar topic. I can't for the life of me figure out query letters either. Sure, I've used Query Hell. I've managed to get from horribly crappy to moderately crappy. I've come a long way, but I'm still having trouble succinctly summarizing the plot/emotion/drive in an interesting way. I hope to have this figured out before I start sending out query letters (I firmly believe you only get one chance, so you might as well wait until you get it perfect), but at this point, realistically, my best chance might be with one of those agents that skims the query and looks at the writing sample....

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 13, 2010

Thanks for everyone's comments,

Hedgetrimmer, I hear what you're saying. I am calm. I am Zen.

I know that most of what I write isn't the most popular stuff out there, not you or anyone else has to tell me that.

But if I'm supposed to put out my best work, these are the best stories that are in me, and unless I find some way of making a realistic story appeal to me, what else can I do?

Also, I've done extensive research on agents, and did everything short of mind reading to know if they'd be interested in Gabriel. I did get one of my top agents interested in wanting the full manuscript. But he ultimately passed on it.

All the other agents I tired have been form letters, and I did the best I could at the time, and no one will make me question that.

However, finding out certain specifics like your examples, seem impossible. I just don't think those kinds of highly specific bits of info come up in normal conversation, even in the most telling interviews.

Plus, some of the agents that have published titles in the same vein as mine, have almost no info about their preferences online, or in the print guides I have.

And yes, as everyone keeps telling me, I AM writing other things, but none of them are ready to go to this step.

The chances of me writing a thriller or a realistic contemporary story are not high, solely because while I love reading them, I'm just not good at writing them.

I've said this before, and I must say it again, sometimes we like reading books we're not good at writing ourselves.

STKlingaman · Feb 13, 2010

Like anything else - Research!

cscarlet · Feb 13, 2010

C.J. - I just wanted to say I sympathize, and above all DON'T GIVE UP!

To answer your initial question: I have no idea. I THINK the biggest key is finding your voice in your query, but I haven't mastered that yet. One of the things I love (love love love) most about my MC's personality is that he is a master of subtleties... but how in the heck I translate that into a few short paragraphs (when the things he experiences are ANYTHING but subtle), I have no freaking clue.

But that being said, I'm still hopeful. I'll still tweak it whenever I can (especially with my shortcomings in mind), and then I'll also cross my fingers that maybe the whole "4-5 agents out of 100" statistic just might be enough to find someone else who loves my MC, and my story, as much as I do.

Always stay positive. And if it doesn't work for this one (as others have repeatedly said), shelve it and move on to something else... then if you get published later, Gabriel can be dusted off and brought out into the light again for a second shot. Doing that doesn't make your story, or your character, any less loved.

GOOD LUCK!!!

MJWare · Feb 13, 2010

There's a saying when interviewing for a corporate job, interview to get to the next round of interviews, not to get the job.
So, one thing that has helped me was remembering you are just trying to get them to request the manuscript, not fall in love with your story.
I wouldn't worry about summarizing the plot/emotion/drive. Just get them to request the darn thing.

Once they have the manuscript they'll (hopefully) fall in love with it. Now, your query, does have to resemble your book, that's a given.

I don't know if you guys are going this, but sometimes writers want to get the essence of the story into the query. Think about it like back cover text; you just want to get them to open the book.

abctriplets said:
Heh. I was just about to post a similar topic. I can't for the life of me figure out query letters either. Sure, I've used Query Hell. I've managed to get from horribly crappy to moderately crappy. I've come a long way, but I'm still having trouble succinctly summarizing the plot/emotion/drive in an interesting way. I hope to have this figured out before I start sending out query letters (I firmly believe you only get one chance, so you might as well wait until you get it perfect), but at this point, realistically, my best chance might be with one of those agents that skims the query and looks at the writing sample....

timp67 · Feb 13, 2010

Oh, man ... you've asked the million dollar question.

If you ever learned the secret of a successful query, you would be richer than Midas!
I think it often comes down to simply being in the right place at the right time. An agent/editor just happens to be in the right mood for your query when she/he comes across it. This doesn't seem to give you much control over the process, but you can improve your odds by querying widely and well.

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 13, 2010

Luck may play a part in all this, but you can't rely on that.

I refuse to believe hard work is irrelevant.

C.J.

Torgo · Feb 15, 2010

Hedgetrimmer said:
I feel your pain. Agents are always saying they can gauge from a query whether or not someone can write an engaging novel. I don't believe it though. Sure, if the query is full of typos and grammatical errors, chances are the manuscript is too. But writing about a book is nothing at all like actually writing the thing.

Actually, I think it's more like you can tell if someone can't write an engaging novel.

Here's something Dinosaur Comics reminded me of the other day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gricean_maxims . Your query letter only has to communicate a few things; you need to be able to do that concisely, relevantly and truthfully. It's definitely a skill to be able to boil a novel down into a paragraph or two that will make people want to read it - that's why we pay copywriters - but I do expect a novelist to have some chops in that area, and to be able to spot when they've written a bad letter. If the letter rambles off into endless grafs of back story, for example, it makes me suspect the book has the same problem.

That may not be entirely fair, but then spam filters are hard to design...

Amarie · Feb 15, 2010

I've been working on queries and proposals for a long time, and I've learned you have to break your story down very simply. You need to be able to answer the following questions to pull together a good query:

1. What is it about the MC that will make someone interested in him/her? If the MC is average, what about the setting or the time period is interesting?

2. What does the MC want?

3. What is the major problem or antagonist facing the MC?

4. What will happen if the MC doesn’t overcome the problem or the antagonist? Or in other words, what are the stakes?

If you can pull these from your plot, you can write a decent query. That's not to say you will get the responses you want. I had a great query for a cozy mystery 3 or 4 years ago, but the bottom dropped out of that market, and I had very little success with it.

stormie · Feb 15, 2010

It took me about two years to master the query, and then I got many requests for partials from it. I studied a lot of queries during those two years.

For me it was making the query short and to the point. A kind of hook. I know you said you had trouble with the "front flap of a book" type query, but that's what really worked for me.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 15, 2010

The only advice I can give is don't listen to the rules, don't listen to other writers, and don't query too many agents at one time. Two or three at a time is more than enough.

Beyond this, I'd say take anything out of the query that isn't pure synopsis. Do not begin by telling the agent you've written a book, do not begin by telling the agent how long the book is, etc. Save length for the last sentence of the query. The very first sentence of your query should grab the agent, and no sentence after this should give her a chance to get away.

From my experience, a first paragraph that does anything other than grab the agent means the next paragraph probably won't be read.

Reading jacket copy is, I firmly believe, the best way to learn how to write a good query letter. Do you ever read jacket copy that starts with how long the book is, or what genre the book is, or that tells you anything?

A good query letter does not tell an agent about your story. A good query letter is a story in it's own right.

C.J. Rockwell · Feb 15, 2010

Jamesaritchie said:
The only advice I can give is don't listen to the rules, don't listen to other writers, and don't query too many agents at one time. Two or three at a time is more than enough.

Do you know how long it can take for even prompt agents to reply? Plus, since many have gone to "Only reply when interested" that gets cumbersome, especially when they don't say "if you don't here back for X weeks or months, asuume that we've passed on it."

Beyond this, I'd say take anything out of the query that isn't pure synopsis.

I'm sorry, but to me, the line between those two things are very blurred.

Jamesaritchie said:
Reading jacket copy is, I firmly believe, the best way to learn how to write a good query letter. Do you ever read jacket copy that starts with how long the book is, or what genre the book is, or that tells you anything?

A good query letter does not tell an agent about your story. A good query letter is a story in it's own right.

First of all, don't be so arrogant about getting help. If you didn't need it and are your own best teacher, I truly bless you. But I'm not always my own best teacher. I also don't mean to say I don't put in my fair share of long hours of self-improvement, self-tutoring, etc.

But if I hadn't listened to other writers I respect and admire, and we're often are far ahead if me in many ways in terms of their work and growth, I would've made mistakes far worse than the ones you told me I shouldn't make, none of which I have thank you very much, except perhaps for not being able to tell the difference between a query and a synopsis in the sense they both have to prove my idea is solid and interesting to warrant wanting to know more.

Also, I'm confused about whether or not to reveal the ending. If I follow your "Make it read like flap copy" mantra to the letter, it wouldn't have the ending spelled out. But everyone I've discussed this with tell me the ending must be in there. I reveal the ending in mine, in case the latter is right.

Finally, in regards to "A good query letter is a story in it's own right." Bite your tongue! Not everyone is a master of short stories, and don't you forget it!

Katrina S. Forest · Feb 15, 2010

I think everyone who's had any success with queries has a different way they learned how to get the query down. Some people just read lots and lots of queries. Others figured it out from book jackets. Maybe a more-experienced friend helped them out. For me, it was a conference course. I don't know what this one presenter did that made query-writing click for me, but she did. (For one thing, my queries were way too long, I took forever to get to get to my big selling point.)

What I believe is the same for everyone is this: keep trying, don't let that query out the door until you're positive it will sell your book.

To clarify about telling the ending:

Queries - do not spell out the ending, but they tell what's at risk. (aka "if Bob doesn't find out who killed Amy, he could be the next victim.")

Synopsis - do spell out the ending. Sometimes the paragraph in the query that summarizes your story is called a mini synopsis. That's not the same thing as a synopsis that an agent or editor requests.

stormie · Feb 15, 2010

Jamesaritchie said:
The only advice I can give is don't listen to the rules, don't listen to other writers, and don't query too many agents at one time. Two or three at a time is more than enough.

Beyond this, I'd say take anything out of the query that isn't pure synopsis. Do not begin by telling the agent you've written a book, do not begin by telling the agent how long the book is, etc. Save length for the last sentence of the query. The very first sentence of your query should grab the agent, and no sentence after this should give her a chance to get away.

From my experience, a first paragraph that does anything other than grab the agent means the next paragraph probably won't be read.

Reading jacket copy is, I firmly believe, the best way to learn how to write a good query letter. Do you ever read jacket copy that starts with how long the book is, or what genre the book is, or that tells you anything?

A good query letter does not tell an agent about your story. A good query letter is a story in it's own right.

Bolding above is mine. I guess no one should read the rest of your post then.

'

triceretops · Feb 15, 2010

Query Letter Hell doesn't always work to my liking, but it succeeds more than it fails. I had one comment that suggested I add some snappy voice to it, which I did, and saw my partial/full request increase noticeably. That was just one fruitful aspect of it.

Tri

Angela_785 · Feb 15, 2010

Okay, okay...here's the secret mathematical formula:

Strong writing + careful targeting + compelling concept + engaging hook + unique characters + good marketability + gap in the market + agent in a good mood = request for full.

It's laugh or cry, isn't it?

I know, everyone feels better now, right?

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