"Those Lazy Readers!" 1st Person vs. 3rd Person Market

Oh yay. Another Twilight thread.

FJAR0009 said:

After witnessing the rise of the ridiculous titan known as Twilight and taking glances at new popular novels on the shelves at present moment, I can't help but feel that teenagers only want first-person stories, now.

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FJAR0009 said:

...as a writer, you know that third person gives a much better broad view of everything...

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O RLY.

I don't understand how prefering 1st person is lazy. What is written well will sell. Agents are looking for character driven stories, and that is a big reason why 1st person is popular right now. I believe you need to be a little more sensetive. There are MANY people here that write first person. By the way welcome to AW.

Oh yay. Another Twilight thread.

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You took the words right out of my head :lol:

Eragon and Harry Potter are both third person.

FJAR0009 said:

...especially because as a writer, you know that third person gives a much better broad view of everything, and that in reality, the thoughts of people are never that descriptive.

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a) What?

b) I'd say that descriptions in first person books are a good rough equivalent of actually looking at things, when they're done right.

c) Honestly, I don't think people notice or care what POV the books they read are in.

FJAR0009 said:

And it is hard to have a wide view of everything from first-person, because you can't hear other characters' thoughts, or know what they're doing without the MC being in the room.

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That's one of the chief virtues of 1st POV. Your not knowing what other characters are thinking creates more suspense. It also feels more like real life, which is good for some stories.

Also, aren't multiple first person POVs popular in YA right now?

*sigh*

Yes.

There are plenty of quality third person novel out there already that are popular (Wicked Lovely series and Mortal Instruments series to name a few). There are plenty of us reading third person novels along with first person. Teenagers (and any reader) wants a good story, period.

There are also plenty of quality first person novels out there too. Both have their own pros and cons. The description in a first person novel usually depends on the person speaking and not all first person novels have 8,000 I's.

Try to have more confidence in your work.

I'm personally adverse to first person, and I think that far too many books in the YA section are in firs person, but hey, every writer and reader has their preferences.

And I totally agree with above. Readers want a good story. They care less about the way it's written than writers, agents and publishers combined. They just want a good story they can read over and over.

Yes, first person is popular in YA right now. So what? That'll change. Just like what's popular will change. It goes from Vampires to angels to whatever. Same goes with POV. It'll change, much slower, but things are always moving and shaking in the publishing world.

Don't worry. Nobody's going to shoot down your book just because it's not first person. Just write a good story and you'll be a shoe in.

I'm not a fan of first person. Love third. I could use way less of the first-person girl voice with ridiculous heaps of talkiness (good examples: 'Prada and Prejudice', 'Sucks to be Me'). But they're obviously popular, and they're obviously a big hit with teenagers. Publishers are in it to make money.

HP and Eragon are third person, but they're also special cases in their own way. 1) HP was imported from Britain, where third person is more prevalent. 2) Eragon was self-pubbed, made it big through marketing efforts of boy's family, got picked up, and then became mainstream publisher's book.

First person is way easier to write than third. Seriously. It's how everyone thinks. It's how you see the world. Every journal you keep and e-mail you send is first. Third has to be learned. That doesn't diminish first, saying that. That's just a fact. Maybe it's the appeal for those who love reading first-- it's their experience.

First person may be easier to write from the get go but it's just as challenging to write well -- especially in terms of plot and limitations -- as third.

It's not a new trend, merely one which comes and goes (or so my copy of Jane Eyre would seem to indicate).

Sage said:

<sighs> Another "first person is easier" argument too?

My switch from third to first was very difficult, guys. It may seem easier because you think about yourself in the first person, but it's really not easier to write.

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Hear hear! It is difficult to structure a complex plot around a limited viewpoint. Plus, it requires a lot of skill to keep 1st person sentences and narrative succinct, well-paced, and concise-- because people like to ramble when they're trapped inside one person's head.

Anyway, I think they are both difficult for different reasons. Writing is pretty much just hard. Hence the need for this message board.

Sage said:

<sighs> Another "first person is easier" argument too?

My switch from third to first was very difficult, guys. It may seem easier because you think about yourself in the first person, but it's really not easier to write.

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Ditto.

It's actually a lot harder than you think and if you have NEVER written in this format, try to hold judgement. Just because you read and it comes across as an easy read, doesn't mean the writer was lazy. Actually, the writer was brilliant and succeeded in his/her mission. It's a whole other world when you're writing it. It's extremely challenging because you are limited in what the character "sees," "hears," and "understands," in relation to dealing with other characters in the story. You have to get very creative in how you give needed information for the story/plot, always keeping in mind that the MC can't "see," hear," or "understand," for the other characters. Not to mention you have to get creative in how you describe things for the MC because although I want the readers to "see" that she has a naughty grin on her face, you can't say that because people in first person don't think or say, "A naught grin spreads across my face." You just do it.

And what's the difference between all the "my's" and "I's" in a story versus the "he's" and "she's" and "her's" and "his" or repeating someone's name a gazillion times. In the end, it all serves the same purpose.

Not sure if this made sense but I found lazy to be a harsh word to describe stories written in FPPOV.

I also think it's unfair to assume that just because there is an increase in published novels written in FPPOV, that it's all teens want to read. Give them a little more credit.

I'm sorry you are frustrated with having to wait. I can only imagine how hard that is. Hang in there and stay positive.

I normally don't jump into these kind of things, but I do want to share I met Lori Graham from Wild Rose Press at a conference last fall, and she and I actually had this same converstation. Lori told me first person tends to do better in YA for some odd reason--sells wise--but they look at the story itself, not so much what POV when taking on a project.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Sage said:

<sighs> Another "first person is easier" argument too?

My switch from third to first was very difficult, guys. It may seem easier because you think about yourself in the first person, but it's really not easier to write.

There have been first person YA novels for ages. I saw many of them when I was a teen too.

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I've written in both first person and third. I found it much easier to write in third, which is why I enjoy writing in first. I not might be a teen, but I prefer books in first person. It feels more intimate.

There is a reason why that pov is popular with teens. I can't remember the specifics anymore, but it has to do with the developmental age.

First person is significantly trickier for me, maybe because I'm so much more conscious of my characters sounding like me when I'm actually trying to pass it off as internal dialogue. (Funnily enough, I love the third person narrator persona, even though I don't think I could describe it to you at all.)

They're a little harder for me to get into, too, but I can see why first person would be so popular for YA and particularly self-insertion sorts of wish fulfillment novels.

If teenagers are so stupid, why are you writing for them?

FJAR0009:
taking glances at new popular novels on the shelves at present moment, I can't help but feel that teenagers only want first-person stories, now

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If you're only glancing at what's on the shelves at the moment, then it's no wonder you're so completely wrong about this.

Look again and look closely. Plenty of books out there are being written in third person. Other posters have offered loads of examples.

Unless your book is on submission to publishers right now, you're not at the stage where you need to worry about what teenagers want. What you need to think about is what an agent wants - i.e. the best possible manuscript that you can write with a solid story than an agent thinks they can sell.

FJAR0009:
It's a scary thing to look at, especially because as a writer, you know that third person gives a much better broad view of everything, and that in reality, the thoughts of people are never that descriptive.

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No, it doesn't. The best POV for a novel is the POV that works best for that story. Sometimes it's third, sometimes it's first, in rare cases it's second.

FJAR0009:
What I want is everyone's opinions on whether someone's third person, quality novel could ever survive in a sea of books pulled from a main character's head

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Yes.

Apropos of nothing, I'm struck by the similarities of this thread to the discussion started here, which also involved slagging off Twilight.

MM

I found it was pretty fun to mess around using first person, purely because you could keep more secrets from the reader (my MC was never named nor was their gender disclosed), so they get more fun from it in some respects.
Third person is good as well, just in it's own way - it can include more characters easily, not just those the MC is viewing, and allows a certain level of increased description.

To be honest, I love both styles equally, but I'd always choose to write in First person, because I find it more entertaining.

Shady Lane said:

If teenagers are so stupid, why are you writing for them?

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I don't think the OP said teens are stupid.

FJAR0009 said:

and that in reality, the thoughts of people are never that descriptive.

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While I don't agree with most of what you said - because I do think in the end it boils down to how awesome your book is; readers will eat it up, first person or third person - I agree with that statement. I refuse to believe that most people, especially teenagers, have such overly descriptive thoughts.

I reckon, if anyone wants to venture into First person, please, please read The catcher in the rye. You'll learn a great deal from it.

FJAR0009 said:

After witnessing the rise of the ridiculous titan known as Twilight and taking glances at new popular novels on the shelves at present moment, I can't help but feel that teenagers only want first-person stories, now. Being someone who just finished a third-person omniscient YA novel of quite a length, it makes me want to put my head through a wall. Today's youth seem too bothered to read anything good that doesn't have someone speaking directly to them or using about 8,000 "I's" and "my's." It's a scary thing to look at, especially because as a writer, you know that third person gives a much better broad view of everything, and that in reality, the thoughts of people are never that descriptive. I'm not asking for view on whether first person or third person is best. What I want is everyone's opinions on whether someone's third person, quality novel could ever survive in a sea of books pulled from a main character's head.

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Not exactly. Lets bear in mind firstly that publishing is a BUSINESS. this means that publishers are trying to MAKE MONEY. they do that by publishing more of what sells.

After The-Book-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named (See also : Sparkly Book of Doom) was sucessful, it's readers wanted more of the same - YA paranormals/UF's written in a way that was familiar. (first person, no personality, no characterisation, and often a lack of understanding of basic grammar) so we have a glut of these types of book.

It'll pass as these things do.

There are a lot of very good, very sucessful YA books written in both 1st and 3rd person.

FJAR0009 said:

Haha, no, not a Twilight thread; that was just an example. And it is hard to have a wide view of everything from first-person, because you can't hear other characters' thoughts, or know what they're doing without the MC being in the room.

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And sometimes that is a good thing.

I've read and written both, and they each offer something different. Each has their strengths and weaknesses.

shaldna said:

Not exactly. Lets bear in mind firstly that publishing is a BUSINESS. this means that publishers are trying to MAKE MONEY. they do that by publishing more of what sells.

After The-Book-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named (See also : Sparkly Book of Doom) was sucessful, it's readers wanted more of the same - YA paranormals/UF's written in a way that was familiar. (first person, no personality, no characterisation, and often a lack of understanding of basic grammar) so we have a glut of these types of book.

It'll pass as these things do.

There are a lot of very good, very sucessful YA books written in both 1st and 3rd person.

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lmao! Award for best line goes to Shaldna haha!

Glenakin said:

lmao! Award for best line goes to Shaldna haha!

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I aim to please.





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When I'm not aiming for the head.
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