Kristin Nelson Looking for Males

Hedgetrimmer

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I thought I would pass this on for any guys writing MG or YA. Kristin Nelson posted on her blog this week that her list is woefully underrepresented by male authors. She is particularly looking for those writing MG and YA. She said if the query letter is "solid," she will certainly request sample pages. Mine must stink to high heaven. I queried her a few weeks ago and received a form rejection in quick order. Perhaps others will have better luck.
 

thothguard51

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I think the reason she is under represented of male authors is because she is looking for a very specific style, IMHO. It has nothing to do with males not capable of writing MG or YA, which I don't.
 

Hedgetrimmer

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I agree that subjectivity should not include gender, but it does. The publishing industry is replete with bias. Just a few months ago a senior editor at Scholastic confessed on her blog her own prejudice against writers of color. She didn't say the work wasn't any good or that she never received submissions from Asians, Latinos, African- and Native-Americans, but that her own life's perspective was rooted in her WASP upbringing. She didn't say anything that surprised me, though I was surprised she actually admitted it.

Two years ago I received a candid rejection letter from an agent who said she simply wasn't signing any black clients. I suppose I could've been outraged and bitter, but this is America. I've lived 40 years in this country as a black man. My head hasn't been in the sand. I just pull the letter out every now and then to remind myself what I'm dealing with trying to get published.

I don't know if Kristin has deliberately gone out of her way to sign women predominately, but it's certainly possible. Maybe like the Scholastic editor she too has suddenly developed a conscience. I can't say. What I can say, however, is that her admission has gotten a lot of her female blog readers pretty upset. Some have even said they plan to submit manuscripts under male pseudonyms.

It's sad that this is reality. I mean, if the work is good, it's good. The species of man still has a lot more evolving to do, if you ask me.
 

kellion92

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I don't mean to be dense, but how do agents know what race or even gender you are? This is not meant to be flip, Hedge. I am embarrased to admit that I always pictured you as a white woman, because that's what I am.

ETA: I'm shocked that an editor would openly admit that s/he does not want clients of color (although I am sadly not surprised that they might privately feel that way), but I didn't see anything wrong in Kristin Nelson's post that she wished she could find more male clients whose work she connected with.
 
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Hedgetrimmer

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I am embarrased to admit that I always pictured you as a white woman, because that's what I am.

:roll:Stop, girl. You're killing me!

Seriously, this very issue has been raised surrounding the whole Bloomsbury cover fiasco. While some people feel the publisher is flat-out racist, others attribute the mistake to the cover designers having not read the book and, like you, simply imposed their own image onto the covers. Who knows?

As for my queries, my name is Kevin, and so there's the gender thing. And sometimes at the bottom of my letter I'll list my past publications, several of which include essays in Essence.

As for Kristin, I also didn't find anything offensive about her post, and not simply because I'm a man either. I gathered she merely expressed an interest in making her list a bit more balanced. As most of her clients are women, she feels that some male writers may not approach her, perhaps thinking she does indeed harbor a gender bias. It thus becomes a vicious cycle, and I give her props for recognizing it and taking the initiative to set the record straight.
 

abctriplets

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I'm not sure what sort of a book men write. Granted, I'm a man, but I doubt that she's looking for novels about motorcycles and pirates, because all she gets are books about fairies and puppies from her female authors. Or if she is, she should state it as such.

Can you tell gender from a work just by subject/voice? I am sure there are some books that scream out that they're written from a female or male point-of-view (though it is possible to still have been written by the opposite gender), but for the majority of books, is there a clear gender difference?

Is this just a marketing problem? Do books by male authors sell differently to her targeted audience? It seems possible, wasn't that the whole reason J.K. Rowling went with initials?

But is it *such* a difference that she'd make such a request? Or, as Hedge suggests, she looked at her client list and thought she should balance it out?

(or is she trying to play matchmaker with her writers....)
 

Inkblot

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I doubt that men face discrimination in children's publishing. To the contrary, I've talked to other women about using initials instead of names in order to hide our gender -- especially when we're writing books aimed at boys, or both genders. Every time I go to the national SCBWI conference, I see at least 10 women writers for every man, and I've heard that this statistic is common in slush piles as well -- and is probably what Ms. Nelson is talking about. On the other hand, men make up for it at awards time, when they usually end up with half the major awards, though they constitute a much smaller proportion of writers.
 
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thothguard51

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When I first started reading Ms Andre Norton's work in the 60's, I assumed she was a male because of the name. Not the writing. Then in the late seventies I met her...we both had a good laugh at my mistake, but she admitted to writing under the name as is because SF&F were a man's domain at the time. For me, this made reading her work even more special.

As too Kristen, I suspect she knows the sex of the author from reading the queries, provided the author signed them with their real name. If she is underrepresented in the male authors department, I suspect it is her own issues and not because males do not write what she is looking for.
 

Hedgetrimmer

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One writer on the blog (male) said he frankly didn't feel most female agents could connect with "boy" books. While I don't completely agree--there being many female agents who rep male writers writing books with boy MCs--I do see how this could be true here and there. It's simply another level of subjectivity. I know there are male agents who would never consider taking a look at a female who wrote chick lit or women's fiction no matter how good the query might be. If she's writing about things he knows nothing about, or cares nothing about, it's almost impossible for him to get excited about the work.

But, Ink, I disagree that men writers do not face discrimination in this field. I know of one particular agent (a real powerhouse) who is an open lesbian. And guess what? Nearly all her clients are women. Do I think prospective male clients see her list and choose not to submit? Nope. Do I think she's a ball-busting man-hater who only keeps a few guys in her stable to maintain a facade of fairness? Nope. Do I think her political and social views influence how she approaches the work that shows up in her inbox? Absolutely. How can they not? She was a gay woman before she ever became an agent. If this is a woman who lives her life consciously aware of the marginalization of women in American society, I don't doubt for a second she is just as conscious of the work she chooses to represent and, hopefully, present to this society.
 

MsJudy

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Hedge, I can't believe an agent would actually tell you she wasn't signing black clients. I mean, I know people think that way, but it's always a shock when people have so little shame.

I'd be curious to know what agent it was...because I'm sure I'd never want to do business with someone like that.
 

kellion92

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What Jud said. Could you rep me, please?
 

SheilaJG

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I had the impression that editors wanted more "authors of color." I can't believe someone would admit they're racists - it boggles the mind!

As for Ms. Nelson, I think it would be helpful to know what sort of "boy" books, MG and YA, she has enjoyed. I looked briefly at her site and didn't notice anything. A lot of agents want the next Diary of a Wimpy Kid or Lightning Thief, but do they really connect with all the great boy books out there? Hatchet, Alabama Moon, The Schwa Was Here, Tangerine, etc.

Or maybe she just wants chick lit, but written by a guy?
 

Saltier

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She also mentioned that this is a good time to query her in general - a down time in her agent reading cycle.
 

Inkblot

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Hedgetrimmer, I'm sure there are individual agents, both men and women, who discriminate against people for whatever reasons (consciously or unconsciously) -- like the lesbian agent you speak of. And I think that people of color have an uphill battle due to the belief that their books won't sell in large numbers. But I seriously doubt that in the children's industry, white men are generally discriminated against. There just happen to be many more manuscripts from women turning up in the slush piles of agents and editors, at least based on what I see every year at SCBWI and what I've heard from editors. Whether it's being an elementary school teacher or writing for children, work for and with children tends to be low status, so fewer men are drawn to it. Most of them would rather focus on writing for adults.
 
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Toothpaste

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I like Kristin generally, but I don't like this call for male authors.

I could understand looking for "boy books" etc. But the implication in her request is that male writers have a unique insight into . . . something . . . that female writers don't and thus she wants them specifically. I can see individual authors having unique insights, but I would never divide it by gender. I say this as some who has written two "boy books" (one published, one not [yet :) ]), and also as someone who has read many a book by women with male protagonists.

(What's more I should add that in the children's book world which is very female - authors, editors, agents etc - if a man does write a book in that genre, he is held up with such high esteem. Both because it is so rare, and also because you have all these women who (aside from the odd lesbian) are into men. So even if there aren't as many male authors writing in this genre, have no fear if you are one, you will be treated extremely well.)

I think there is a vast difference between looking for books on certain topics, and looking for books by certain authors.
 
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Hedgetrimmer

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Hedge, I can't believe an agent would actually tell you she wasn't signing black clients. I mean, I know people think that way, but it's always a shock when people have so little shame.

Yeah, I was shocked too. I often rant about receiving form rejections instead of a personal note telling me what specifically doesn't work, but I certainly didn't expect something that personal.

In the agent's defense, however, I'm compelled to clarify some things. I feel my earlier post may have been a bit misleading. It wasn't as if she said something like, "I don't represent black writers, so please stop querying me and tell all your black writer friends to scratch me off their list as well."

Her frankness was more a reflection of the publishing industry as a whole (editors and marketing directors) rather than her own personal prejudice. Basically what she said was that she has stopped signing African-Americans because publishers are too resistant to stories that show blacks in a positive, universal light. Here's a quote from the letter:


[FONT=&quot]Dear Kevin:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You have reached me at a time when I am not actively submitting projects to publishers for acquisitions consideration. In most instances it is quite difficult to find publishers that will respond to moral stories that focus and tell the stories of African American life and culture. The state of affairs in the current publishing marketplace is quite depressing. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I am certain that if you survey any bookstore you will quickly determine that there is little diversity among the overall titles representing African American writers of young adult fiction. [/FONT]



And she's right. My own research has found that an overwhelming number of books featuring black children have something to do with slavery or Jim Crow or the Civil Rights Movement. Race is the overarching theme. With young adult titles, the works often depict blacks in a very negative manner. The mothers are drug addicts, the fathers are abusive or absent, the teenagers hate themselves because their skin is too dark or their hair is too coarse, the girls always end up getting pregnant, blah blah blah blah blah. As the agent pointed out, publishers act like there are no black kids growing up in loving, stable, nurturing homes.

We saw the same thing back in the 1990s with Hollywood. Black screenwriters and actors were lamenting the dearth of quality projects coming their way. And yet at the same time Hollywood was quick to churn out all those Boyz in the Hood type movies. The publishing industry has sadly decided to cater to the same stereotypes.
 

MJWare

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In an OL world it's harder to know who you are dealing with. When I first joined the forum I thought Toothpaste's avatar was his actual photo, so not only did I think toothpaste was male (and also her MC, due to the tiny cover photo with Alex on it), but I was a little inclined not to like him because I thought he was better looking than me!

(What's more I should add that in the children's book world which is very female - authors, editors, agents etc - if a man does write a book in that genre, he is help up with such high esteem. Both because it is so rare, and also because you have all these women who (aside from the odd lesbian) are into men. So even if there aren't as many male authors writing in this genre, have no fear if you are one, you will be treated extremely well.)
Maybe us guys should get some of those glamor photos and attach them to our query letters:D -J/K
 
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sissybaby

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mware01 - :roll::ROFL:

I realized Toothpaste's Alex was a girl right away - but I've always thought Alex was the perfect name for a female MG hero.

But I'll admit now, and it is for your humor and my embarrassment, that I thought Toothpaste was also male. I didn't recognize whoever was on her avatar at the time - I don't keep up with young studly movie stars - and I thought she was a very nice looking guy for a writer.

Talk about your stereotyping!

Of course, I now know she is a beautiful young woman, and a wonderfully talented one, to boot.

Sissy
 

Toothpaste

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In an OL world it's harder to know who you are dealing with. When I first joined the forum I thought Toothpaste's avatar was his actual photo, so not only did I think toothpaste was male (and also her MC, due to the tiny cover photo with Alex on it), but I was a little inclined not to like him because I thought he was better looking than me!


Maybe us guys should get some of those grammar photos and attache them to our query letters:D -J/K

It is the curse of using hot men as one's avatar, I do understand that. And btw, yes Alex is a girl, but my second novel has a boy MC, Timothy.

But what I find very interesting is that yes, more often than not, people mistake me for a guy here. Now doesn't that maybe suggest that specifically requesting male authors is a bit silly, considering it can be very hard at times to tell the difference just in the way we write?

I didn't get your joke btw, sorry. What's a grammar photo?
 

Toothpaste

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I don't keep up with young studly movie stars - and I thought she was a very nice looking guy for a writer.

Of course, I now know she is a beautiful young woman, and a wonderfully talented one, to boot.

Sissy

Aw, you are sweet, thank you!

For the record, if anyone is curious who my avatar is, I usually make reference to who it is in that line that comes after my name. In this case under "Toothpaste" it reads: Sawyer, you make me smile!

Thus we have a picture of Josh Holloway as his character Sawyer from LOST as my avatar.
 

MJWare

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I didn't get your joke btw, sorry. What's a grammar photo?

Smell check error, "glamor photos".

I've often wondered if it's easier for female others to write believable boy MC's (than male others writing believable girl MC's) or if guys are just more intimidated at the idea of writing as a 12 yo girl?
 

kellion92

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Women often have closer exposure to children of both genders, through primary caregiving of their own offspring or through work in female-dominated profession such as teaching. And even some fathers tend to be uncomfortable or unwilling to immerse themselves in many aspects of their daughter's lives, beginning with playing dolls and moving up to trickier topics.
 

cscarlet

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I've been following this since it's started, and I do find it interesting. I'd be curious to hear what end products she's actually looking for, as an agent. Has anyone actually moved forward and queried? Gotten a response? I would, but I'm still tweaking :D

I mean, hey: My novel has a male MC, and I spend all day TEACHING Firemen, Hazmat guys, and Military dudes. So if they're looking for someone who can get through to the male brain, I'd like to think that in some ways I qualify. ;) LOL

(Disclaimer: I am NOT saying that all firemen, Hazmat guys, and Military dudes are male. Just because women in those professions may be the minority doesn't make them any less awesome :)).
 

Inkblot

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I have a couple of questions reading her letter. Is she saying that she's not sending any manuscripts out at all, African-American or otherwise? And what does she mean by "moral stories"? The word can imply "didactic" which is something that publishers try to avoid.
On the other hand, I strongly agree that the books for and about African-Americans do NOT represent the diversity of A.A. culture in the U.S. today, and there are few books that don't have a racial focus (in which a MC kid just happens to be black, but that isn't the focus of the story). And then what happens when there is such a book? The powers-that-be put a white person on the book cover!
 
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