Curse words and sex scenes in YA

yvonne58 · Feb 9, 2010

Forgive me if this subject has been covered recently. I want to know how you've all dealt with the use of certain curse words, mainly the F word, in your novels. I've asked several readers of all ages about this, and have gotten mixed opinions. Some think that words like "crap" and "pissed" are enough, but others think this approach is lame and want to see more realistic teen language. I've been aiming somewhere in the middle, but wonder if I'm wimping out. So many of the YA books I read include more hard core language.

Also, kissing scenes and possible sex scenes. How much detail? I'm not going down the bodice ripping road, not even close, so I've made my romance scenes steamy without going over the top and describing too much. Most is better left to the imagination. But is that also lame? How about describing french kissing specifically? Whew! So much to think about!

Would love to make the scenes exciting and realistic, without getting banned from the school libraries!

Any thoughts?

Elysium · Feb 9, 2010

Curse Words

I use them in my novels. They're okay. If you feel comfortable with them, use them. If not, then don't use them. Not every teen drops the F bomb, but if it fits with your okay, it's cool. No one will chase after you with a pitch-fork if you use swear words in your novel.

Sex Scenes

The classic fade-to-black method would be fine. As long as it's not too explicit, then you're good. Just keep in mind that you are writing for Young Adults and not little kids, and even then you are not writing for Adults, you're writing for teenagers.

Personally I like steamy ones that don't go over the top. A couple of sex scenes in YA books you can check out is the one in Jellicoe Road by Melina Marchetta and I believe there is one in Frostbite by Richelle Mead.

They weren't over the top, but they were pretty hot. Hope I answered your questions.

suki · Feb 9, 2010

yvonne58 said:
Forgive me if this subject has been covered recently. I want to know how you've all dealt with the use of certain curse words, mainly the F word, in your novels. I've asked several readers of all ages about this, and have gotten mixed opinions. Some think that words like "crap" and "pissed" are enough, but others think this approach is lame and want to see more realistic teen language. I've been aiming somewhere in the middle, but wonder if I'm wimping out. So many of the YA books I read include more hard core language.

Also, kissing scenes and possible sex scenes. How much detail? I'm not going down the bodice ripping road, not even close, so I've made my romance scenes steamy without going over the top and describing too much. Most is better left to the imagination. But is that also lame? How about describing french kissing specifically? Whew! So much to think about!

Would love to make the scenes exciting and realistic, without getting banned from the school libraries!

Any thoughts?

The topic does come up a lot, both of them. For a primer, see the sticky thread called Shady's Edgy YA.

Then scroll back through the threads in Young Adult and you will find lots of threads on both cursing and sex in YA books.

~suki

Zoombie · Feb 9, 2010

My teacher for macroeconomics kicked off his class by telling us that the very first words he learned for English were fuck and shit, followed closely by hell and goddamn it.

Course, he learned English by...joining the Air Force, but still. If my professor can get away with cursing in class, then you can get away with cursing in your YA. Most teens I know swear more fucking times than I can fucking count. It gets so goddamn bad sometimes that I just go, "Hey, STOP FUCKING SWEARING!"

But, really, write how your characters talk. If a character casually drops F and C bombs, then they do. If they don't, they won't.

As for sex...well, the more the merrier. We need more love triangles that end with a threesome in the back of a Element.

Cause...Elements are the only cars big enough and still warm and comfy.

fairy86 · Feb 9, 2010

yvonne58 said:
Forgive me if this subject has been covered recently. I want to know how you've all dealt with the use of certain curse words, mainly the F word, in your novels. I've asked several readers of all ages about this, and have gotten mixed opinions. Some think that words like "crap" and "pissed" are enough, but others think this approach is lame and want to see more realistic teen language. I've been aiming somewhere in the middle, but wonder if I'm wimping out. So many of the YA books I read include more hard core language.

Also, kissing scenes and possible sex scenes. How much detail? I'm not going down the bodice ripping road, not even close, so I've made my romance scenes steamy without going over the top and describing too much. Most is better left to the imagination. But is that also lame? How about describing french kissing specifically? Whew! So much to think about!

Would love to make the scenes exciting and realistic, without getting banned from the school libraries!

Any thoughts?

I say be true to your characters. Like Suki suggested, read Shady's thread. Real teens have sex (sometimes more experimental than adults), curse, drink, etc., so it probably won't shock your readers. I think if it fits your novel, you don't have to write fade to black sex --just don't add a sex scene simply because you figure you have to include one.

yvonne58 · Feb 9, 2010

I just read Frostbite and loved how she handled the sex scenes. She pushes the limit well. I really WANT to do that, but because this is my first "real" novel, I'm being cautious. Some beta readers actually pointed out that I shouldn't use "shit" but others thought "fuck" was fine. Go figure.

Zoombie, I love your post! Teachers can be some of the worst. They were when I was in high school.

It seems to me that teens read novels that they can most identify with, and novels that take them to the edge without going over it. But that edge is moving all the time.

Jenifer · Feb 9, 2010

The MC of my WIP is a prostitute. Not a very good one, if that reassures anyone.

So I may not be the one to ask... but...

I'll echo the need to be true to your characters. No cursing or sex just to punch up a flat scene, at least not for me. If it comes naturally to the character or contributes something to the story, it sticks!

PoppysInARow · Feb 9, 2010

Zoombie said:
As for sex...well, the more the merrier. We need more love triangles that end with a threesome in the back of a Element.

HAHA!

I totally agree! That would make a wonderful end to a tragic love triangle! We don't see enough of that in YA.

Yvonne, in the end, if your book needs the scene, it needs the scene. Write it how you want to write it. If a publisher or agent has a problem, they'll change it.

Ugawa · Feb 10, 2010

Mr. ITC is full of curse words. The way I see it, if my MC's personality is one to swear, then swear he will.

I had to rewrite my sex scene about 5 times. It has enough to be interesting, but not enough to become erotica. Ha.

x

Momento Mori · Feb 10, 2010

yvonne58:
I want to know how you've all dealt with the use of certain curse words, mainly the F word, in your novels. I've asked several readers of all ages about this, and have gotten mixed opinions. Some think that words like "crap" and "pissed" are enough, but others think this approach is lame and want to see more realistic teen language. I've been aiming somewhere in the middle, but wonder if I'm wimping out. So many of the YA books I read include more hard core language.

I think that there's a difference in approach between the US market and the UK market when it comes to swearing. Because the US seems to segment the YA market between fiction for 12+ and fiction for 14+, there's more scope to swear (provided it's not wholly gratuitous).

In the UK, I know that some publishers (notably OUP) who think of YA as 12+ and for whom the f-word is a no-no. A UK YA novelist I know who was published by Bloomsbury had to reduce the f-word count in her debut novel down to 2 or 3 uses (but she'd been prepared for that by her agent and so inserted redundant f-word usages that she was happy to cut out).

I've got the f-word in my manuscript and I'm reducing it down from the current 8 occurrences down to 4. I do use "shit" "crap" "squick" "wanker" and "dickhead" though.

yvonne58:
Also, kissing scenes and possible sex scenes. How much detail? I'm not going down the bodice ripping road, not even close, so I've made my romance scenes steamy without going over the top and describing too much. Most is better left to the imagination. But is that also lame? How about describing french kissing specifically? Whew! So much to think about!

It needs to be as realistic and descriptive as the story needs it to be. If there's an impact on a character or it has a bearing on later plot points, then there needs to be a bit more description. If it's just a development in the plot that doesn't have a huge bearing on what happens later then you can fade to black.

MM

Sage · Feb 10, 2010

Preview of the FAQ coming your way. I promise I'm working on it.

Can there be sex in YA?

Shady's Edgy YA
What Constitutes YA Fiction
What Should You Remember When Writing YA?
Middle Grade, Young Adult, Adult: How do you categorize your novel?
Yes, your characters can have sex (ahem, a little more... specific in this thread than most)
Sex in YA Novels
Pet Peeves in YA lit
Teen novels
Sex in YA
Should we be aware of the message
Advice sought on the depiction of gay sex shops ...
Could my book be YA?
Could use a few ideas (realistic ages and relationship durations for sex)
WOW - I know you can have nudity and/or sex in YA but...
Sex in YA books--a question and a realization

Can I have swearing in YA?

Shady's Edgy YA
F-word in YA
Good and bad slang for YA (good thread anyway, and discusses swearing at page 3)
Pet Peeves in YA lit
YA novel with slight homo-erotic overtones (swearing touched upon on page 2)
May I join the club? (Asks about swearing on page 1)
Swearing
Curse Words in YA....for 10yrs and up ---
Profanity in YA writing
Language and Violence

Sage · Feb 10, 2010

Edginess in general:

Is my novel too edgy? (including what's acceptable, will it get banned (and is that a bad thing), and whether we have a responsibility to not include sex, drugs, violence, swearing, drinking, etc. without some kind of lesson about it)

Shady's Edgy YA
What Constitutes YA Fiction
Middle Grade, Young Adult, Adult: How do you categorize your novel?
Yes, your characters can have sex
Pet Peeves in YA lit
YA novel with slight homo-erotic overtones
May I join the club? (starting page 2)
Swearing
Curse Words in YA....for 10yrs and up ---
Teen novels
Would this turn off teens (about age difference for teen romance)
Should we be aware of the message
Edgy or Not? (is really more about specific WIPs)
I require assistance (killing at school done by the protagonist)
Ah, feels good to be home
YA Book Banning
Homosexual predator
YA books
YA or just read by YA
How much tragedy is too much???

Ugawa · Feb 10, 2010

Woah, go Sage.

Sage · Feb 10, 2010

Sadly, I'm only at page 11 of like 60ish pages of the YA forum, but as I go through, the pages go faster, because I'm going through in order of post count, starting with the biggest threads.

Blind Writer · Feb 10, 2010

Curse Words:

I just found out that I drop the F-bomb in THE DUFF exactly 54 times. Hannah Moskowitz BREAK uses it 87 times. I think you're okay.

Sex Scenes:

Yeah.... my book deals A LOT with casual sex. There are sex scenes. As long as you avoid getting on an erotica level, I wouldn't worry about it.

yvonne58 · Feb 10, 2010

Great! That takes the pressure off then. Time to go back and add in the few f-words I was agonizing over. They are only in the scenes where they are really needed. As for sex, well, my scenes are already somewhat descriptive since my contemporary fantasy is primarily a romance. Nothing pisses me off more than a fade to black when I'm just starting to get interested! (Breaking Dawn)

Thanks Sage for those awesome lists! That should keep me busy for at least the next two nights.

And Momento, that's really interesting about the differences between the US and the UK. Half my story takes place in Wales and the other half in the US so my UK characters use some British slang to make the dialog more realistic. I have one use of wanker in a very appropriate place

Thanks everyone! Very helpful.

Kathleen42 · Feb 10, 2010

Sage said:
Sadly, I'm only at page 11 of like 60ish pages of the YA forum, but as I go through, the pages go faster, because I'm going through in order of post count, starting with the biggest threads.

We love ya Sage!

eyeblink · Feb 10, 2010

Partings and Greetings (in its present draft) begins with two of its three protagonists in bed together and the first line of dialogue is "Oh fuck." Guess why I follow threads like this with some interest.

Just checked - 52 F-words. No C-words. Kody and Hannah have me beat for potty-mouthed characters.

Sage · Feb 10, 2010

I have 0 F-words in any of my novels

Tuuli · Feb 10, 2010

yvonne58 said:
I just read Frostbite and loved how she handled the sex scenes. She pushes the limit well.

The big sex scene is actually in Shadow Kiss. The third book of the series.

I cover the gamet of swear words in my novels even though I never swore as a teen. But it's realistic for my characters.

Zoombie · Feb 10, 2010

Hey, you can be erotic!

SillyMom25 · Feb 11, 2010

I was curious so I checked my ms for the f-word. I used it three times. I used the s-word five times.

As for sex, my mc does have sex, but the scenes aren't graphic. I suppose they're more fade to black than anything.

shaldna · Feb 11, 2010

It depends what sort of story i'm working on. I write mostly urban fatasy, and my characters tend to be late teen age and they do swear alot, and sometimes they have sex. And I think that's okay because it's relevant to the story, it fits their characters and more importantly, I think it's okay for that age range.

My sex scenes are more implied than graphic.

nayner · Feb 11, 2010

Zoombie said:
We need more love triangles that end with a threesome in the back of a Element.

AMEN!

nayner · Feb 11, 2010

You can do graphic sex. more people SHOULD do graphic sex, in my opinion.

Look at how popular Judy Blume's Forever was. Teens who are sexually active or or even sexually curious want some damn details, people. Let's give them some nice teen sex so they don't have to go out into the world of internet porn, yes?

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