Capturing dialect?

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DennisB

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What are your thoughts on dialect? Here in Indiana, an awful lot of people (including the educated), use what are called "Hoosierisms." The words "come" and "came" are often transposed ("He come in yesterday and said the part hasn't came in yet").
Others: "she's already went." "they was out playin' ball." "I throwed the ball real good."

Should you use this kind of language if your character is from a part of the country where folks routinely talk that way? What about inner city African Americans, especially young males? Working in downtown Indy, I knew a lot of young guys who really peppered their speech! What about using that vernacular, almost verbatim?
 

Jamesaritchie

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I live in Indiana, and that isn't dialect, and it isn't a Hoosierism. It's just ignorance. You hear the same phrases pretty much everywhere.

You use these pharses to show a given character is not well-educated.
 

Rarri

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You could hear that use of language anywhere, but you do need to be careful with dialect. I recently read a book where, to convey a strong Jamaican accent, all the character's dialogue was written phonetically (IE tink instead of think). It drove me nuts.
 

kuwisdelu

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I live in Indiana, and that isn't dialect, and it isn't a Hoosierism. It's just ignorance. You hear the same phrases pretty much everywhere.

You use these pharses to show a given character is not well-educated.

What the man said.

I also live in Indiana. If someone talks to me like that, I assume it's a lack of education. The people I usually talk to don't talk like that.

If you want to convey a less formally educated character, it's a fine way to do so, though.
 

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I'm originally from Indiana but currently live in Minnesota. That example really isn't an example of dialect, as others have said. It's lazy, and I've heard it everywhere I've lived (South Bend, Milwaukee, WI, and the Twin Cities area). If you used that sort of dialogue to convey a dialect from the area, I can guarantee you that thousands of people from Indiana will not be pleased.
 

Chasing the Horizon

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We have something similar to that here in Pennsylvania. We call it the 'mountain accent'. I used to hear it a lot in the town where I grew up. But educated people don't talk that way, even if they're from the mountains. So it depends on your character's education and background. I certainly wouldn't be offended to see the accent portrayed in a book, as long as the author meant for the character to be uneducated.
 

Cyia

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I'm from Texas, so I'm familiar with the concept of a distinct accent.

If you try and spell out an accent phonetically, it'll be unreadable. (I still haven't forgiven Steinbeck for the far too late revelation that Rosasharn was named "Rose of Sharon".)

"Look, darlin', I kain't help whut you thank you know. Down here folks just talk differnt."

"Look, darlin', I can't help what you think you know," Jim Bob said with that enthralling twang. "Down here, folks just talk different."

Version one would get ANNOYING fast. Version two still gives the impression of dialect and a reference as to where the person is from, but it's a lot easier to read.
 
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Dialect? Don't. Bloody. Do it.

Figures of speech, quirks, catchphrases? They're okay in small doses. Remember, dialogue shouldn't read like real speech. It should give the impression of real speech.
 

backslashbaby

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I don't know the formal definition of a dialect, but I agree that many educated people speak a different way in certain situations than others, at least. All of my grandparents had bad grammar, and you'll hear varying levels of talking that way among the family, alone. There is no correlation with education. Some are more rural, so their neighbors often talk that way, too. I think it is a dialect, personally. There are rules to it.

That's not to say that people won't think it's uneducated. Most will. That's all I can tell you.

-- Except for a big ole Who Dat for the Superbowl ;)
 

kuwisdelu

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I love dialect as long as it's easy to read. If it's not easy to read, I still don't mind as long as it's used sparingly.

But yeah, what you're talking about isn't dialect. Just bad grammar.

If you try and spell out an accent phonetically, it'll be unreadable. (I still haven't forgiven Steinbeck for the far too late revelation that Rosasharn was named "Rose of Sharon".)

I still haven't forgiven him for naming someone "Rose of Sharon" in the first place, or giving his Messiah figure the bloody initials "JC."
 

Juliette Wade

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Dialect should be treated carefully, as the above people suggest, because it's really easy to offend people. If you're aiming for a particular dialect, try to get yourself a real native speaker of the dialect as a coach. This goes not just for regional dialect but for slang associated with youth, etc.

I don't suggest you attempt to render the pronunciation of individual words (also as those above have said) because readers too often find it distracts them from the story - and the story is the most important thing, here. However, there is a lot you can do with word choice to suggest local dialect. You can also do things with word order in sentences, and with meter. Meter, or the rhythm of the speech, is often forgotten or underutilized, but it can have an enormous effect on the impression of dialect.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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I think using non-standard word choices in dialogue is a good way to indicate that those characters are speaking non-standard English.

"I didn't have none of them cookies" tells us something about the way that someone is presenting themselves.

On the other hand, "Ah din hab none o' dem cookies" is just annoying. Don't do that.


Mark Twain did this beautifully and nauseatingly, often in the same book. The first lines of Huckleberry Finn are totally evocative:

You don't know about me without you have read a book by the name of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer; but that ain't no matter. That book was made by Mr. Mark Twain, and he told the truth, mainly.

It conveys a lot about Huck Finn as a character--he's not very educated, he's young ("Mr. Mark Twain"), and he's very straightforward.

And then there's the horrible horrible dialect of Jim, and nonsense spellings like "sivilize" (which is pronounced exactly the same as "civilize" so what is the point except a visual one?)
 
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Maxinquaye

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What the others have said, don't write dialect phonetically. I've been down this road myself and I'm drafting a novel that has both Cockney and North English. They're quite distinct from each other. If I were to write these dialects phonetically, it would be unintelligable to most people, and would probably piss off the native speakers of the dialects.

" I could write a sen'ence in Cockney sort ov like dis, an' trust me i' would get annoyin' real fast."
"Tryin tuh write in a neerthern dialect like, or in geordie, wud be tiresum an' aaal eftor a geet short time like."

So, you compromise. You use word order, specific local words, sentence construction, and certain words that are clearly understood that identify the region.
 

kuwisdelu

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" I could write a sen'ence in Cockney sort ov like dis, an' trust me i' would get annoyin' real fast."
"Tryin tuh write in a neerthern dialect like, or in geordie, wud be tiresum an' aaal eftor a geet short time like."

I liked these.
 

Bufty

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Really? A couple of more lines like those and it would drive me freakin' nuts. That sort of thing is for local consumption only.

I liked these.
 

bonitakale

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What the others have said, don't write dialect phonetically. I've been down this road myself and I'm drafting a novel that has both Cockney and North English. They're quite distinct from each other. If I were to write these dialects phonetically, it would be unintelligable to most people, and would probably piss off the native speakers of the dialects.

" I could write a sen'ence in Cockney sort ov like dis, an' trust me i' would get annoyin' real fast."
"Tryin tuh write in a neerthern dialect like, or in geordie, wud be tiresum an' aaal eftor a geet short time like."

So, you compromise. You use word order, specific local words, sentence construction, and certain words that are clearly understood that identify the region.


Yup, that would kill me to read. When reading, you don't want to decipher the words, not after first or second grade, anyway. To have to slow down in every sentence to figure out what the darned words mean -- well, that's why I've never read Huckleberry Finn. My loss, but I couldn't stand it.
 

Sheila Muirenn

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" I could write a sen'ence in Cockney sort ov like dis, an' trust me i' would get annoyin' real fast."
"Tryin tuh write in a neerthern dialect like, or in geordie, wud be tiresum an' aaal eftor a geet short time like."

Wow. That was well done. I could hear the difference.

But yes, I wouldn't be able to read much more than that at a time.
 

Jamesaritchie

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There's a difference between accent and dialect. Accent is the way a person says a word, and dialect is the word they say.
 

DennisB

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Well......
It just seems silly to have a gang-banger say to a cop something like:

"My friends and I were cruising through the neighborhood when we heard shots fired. They sounded like they came from a nine-millimeter handgun, officer."

To me, this kind of speech would be truly annoying, because I'd have a very difficult time taking the book seriously at that point.


Even something like: "Man, we were just driving through, and we heard these shots. Sounded like a nine..." seems woefully inaccurate.

I'm just going to jump in with both feet. Please tell me what's annoying (or flat-out wrong) about the following: (It's a flashback to 1995, when MC Antwan Ware and two fellow military trainees head into the back country of Mississippi and stop at the only black-owned fishing camp along the Pascagoula River.)

As the three climbed out of the car, they were met by a large, round black man who grinned and introduced himself as Ike, but then quickly added that his real name was Eki. Eki Saunders, of the Saunders family up in Meridian.
They stepped up onto the long porch, Ike asking if they'd like a Coke, apologizing that he didn't sell anything stronger. "I can, 'cause Jackson County's wet. Been wet for a long spell. But muh wife didn't want me sellin' no beer. She's gone, now, been gone about five year. But I figgered I was gettin' too old to go get a permit. Didn't have money for no coolers, anyways. Don't mind if folks brings a six-pack or two with 'em, though, when we goes out."
The guys thought better of inquiring whether Ike's wife was deceased or had simply walked away. Instead, Marques kept up the idle conversation, saying he'd heard that nearly half the counties in Mississippi were dry. It was among the many things their squadron sergeant had warned them about when they’d arrived two months before: You could get in trouble just taking booze through a dry county, if you got caught. "Yeah," said Ike, "an' y'all gots to be careful, bein' black an' all. Easy to getcha seff pulled over."
"DWB," Marques said with a snort. "Driving While Black."
"Wal," said Ike, "if ya do wants a beer, ya gots ta go back ta the highway an' go up ta the tote-um store."
The three looked at Ike, baffled, and he let out a hoot of laughter, the dark skin of his round face scrunching up around his eyes.
"You ain't never heard of a tote-um store? That's what some folks around these parts calls a convenience store. Ya know, ya buys things an' ya tote 'em home."
As the laughter died down, Antwan asked about Ike's real name.
"Wal, I's born in '42. My great-granmama, on my mama's side, was from Niger (he pronounced it with a hard "J"). Come over as a chile jess after the war…."
"The War? World War…? You don't mean the Civil War?" Marques asked with unfeigned shock.

For the record: Ike's contribution to the story lasts about one page. Nobody else talks like this. Later, we meet Antwan's half-brother who does speak an inner-city dialect, but again, only briefly.

Your thoughts?
 

Lost World

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Dialect? Don't. Bloody. Do it.

Figures of speech, quirks, catchphrases? They're okay in small doses. Remember, dialogue shouldn't read like real speech. It should give the impression of real speech.

I am a student of accents and colloquial speech and have incorporated such dialogue into my stories. I am now starting to get away from it. It can indeed become tedious, especially because you have to take inflection into account. The most common way to colloquialize dialect is to drop the G from words ending with G. Problem is, even people who don't regulary pronounce the G on the end of their words will still do it when they inflect a certain way.

It really is more trouble than it's worth. Just say the person talks like a hick!
 

Lady Ice

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Dialect, if used convincingly, is fine. If used badly, it looks like you don't have the faintest idea of how people speak there.
If a character's using strong dialect, it indicates that they're either poorly educated (maybe from a lower social class) or that they've lived in the area a long time. Too much emphasis on dialect can lead to the character coming off as a stereotype.
 

Shakesbear

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What the others have said, don't write dialect phonetically. I've been down this road myself and I'm drafting a novel that has both Cockney and North English. They're quite distinct from each other. If I were to write these dialects phonetically, it would be unintelligable to most people, and would probably piss off the native speakers of the dialects.

" I could write a sen'ence in Cockney sort ov like dis, an' trust me i' would get annoyin' real fast."
"Tryin tuh write in a neerthern dialect like, or in geordie, wud be tiresum an' aaal eftor a geet short time like."

So, you compromise. You use word order, specific local words, sentence construction, and certain words that are clearly understood that identify the region.


Bleedin' awful china! Real Sexton Blake! 'ard t'get yer norf 'n'souf round some dicky birds! See yer round the johnny 'orner at the rubadub for a pig's ear?
 

Chris P

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I would say to use it very sparingly. The reader will rarely notice if you don't use it, but they will notice it BIG TIME if you use it wrong.

Take this forum, for example: all of us have accents and use dialects in our daily speech (I sound like Bob Newhart, stammer and all, because we both grew up near Chicago), but you don't think twice about it until someone uses a word you're not familiar with.

I only use it when a character is trying to be funny, like using a southern hick accent (Would Ah do that tuh yeeew?)
 
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