Pro's violating rules....

[GonnaBeFamous]

Why when I read a script do some of them feel the need to put a freaking 10 line narration. have they ever heard of breaking it up? Why do they give 6 to 10 line dialogues consistently throughout the script like they are giving a speech? This is one reason why I can't read professional scripts. It's like they make them as dry and boring as they can to read. Is this what you can get away with when you break in?

[Optimus]

If you read a really good pro script and can't see how it is much better than most newbie scripts, then I really don't know what to tell you.

Pros violate rules, and usually do it quite effectively, because they know when it's appropriate, when it works to do so. Newbies break rules because they have very poor understanding of the rules and have absolutely no clue as to when doing so would be appropriate.

That's why when pros break the rules, it often benefits the script and when newbies do it, their scripts wind up being jumbled, pedestrian pieces of crap.

You have to know/understand the rules before you can break them.

[Mac H.]

Honestly? You really find scripts boring to read?

Don't you have the movie running in your head just by reading the words?

Are you reading scripts for the types of movies that you like ?

Mac

[NikeeGoddess]

the thought of anyone who said they wanted to write a novel who has never read a novel (or maybe a few) is ridiculous!!! switch "novel" with "screenplay" and it's just a ridiculous. you must read tons of scripts to really understand the entire picture. one or two samples will not do it. and you almost must choose wisely. ie - scripts written by filmmakers break a lot of rules b/c the screenwriter is usually the director/decisionmaker so, they can do whatever they want. you should first choose scripts that are similar to what you want to write. ask for suggestions if you need to. if you don't know how to comprehend and learn from a script (whether its good or bad) then you'll probably not be able to improve your crappy writing.

[Optimus]

What she said.

[GonnaBeFamous]

If you read a really good pro script and can't see how it is much better than most newbie scripts, then I really don't know what to tell you.

Pros violate rules, and usually do it quite effectively, because they know when it's appropriate, when it works to do so. Newbies break rules because they have very poor understanding of the rules and have absolutely no clue as to when doing so would be appropriate.

That's why when pros break the rules, it often benefits the script and when newbies do it, their scripts wind up being jumbled, pedestrian pieces of crap.

You have to know/understand the rules before you can break them.

If it was so effective I wouldn't take it and stop reading. THere are good scripts like Ghost world and Halloween H20, other then that most I have to stop reading immediately because they are so hard to read. If you can read most scripts, great, you have a greater attention span then I do.

[GonnaBeFamous]

Honestly? You really find scripts boring to read?

Don't you have the movie running in your head just by reading the words?

Are you reading scripts for the types of movies that you like ?

Mac

Hell yeah they are boring to read, which is why I don't read them. LOL

[Optimus]

If it was so effective I wouldn't take it and stop reading. THere are good scripts like Ghost world and Halloween H20, other then that most I have to stop reading immediately because they are so hard to read. If you can read most scripts, great, you have a greater attention span then I do.

What you're basically saying is that you can't stand the type of writing that Hollywood loves.

Do you see, as an aspiring screenwriter, why that's a major problem for you?

[preyer]

i find them boring, too. just as a personal form of entertainment, i can't say i will ever derive much pleasure from it. that doesn't mean it doesn't have to be done, though.

i think it's the constant repetition that gets to me, all the EXT and INT, etc.. it's my own personal issue, i realize, but it's very hard for me to read something and not judge it on its literary merits. i think i just haven't been able to separate the two forms just yet. i've yet to really be able to write in a script format because i keep wanting to write like a novelist. i'm in a strange zone with it right now, where it's more of an outline than a novel, but too 'written' to be a script.

it boils down to a conflict of tastes, but one i'll just have to learn to love if ever i want to try to get my stories told this way.

obviously i haven't read a thousand scripts, but they generally look to be in the same format as far as i can tell. what're the differences that fuels the controversy here?

[dpaterso]

Why when I read a script do some of them feel the need to put a freaking 10 line narration. have they ever heard of breaking it up? Why do they give 6 to 10 line dialogues consistently throughout the script like they are giving a speech? This is one reason why I can't read professional scripts. It's like they make them as dry and boring as they can to read. Is this what you can get away with when you break in?Why don't you name the most recent "bad" script you read and paste a specific sample so we can understand the kind of thing that causes you problems? Analyzing this could benefit everyone. Discussing the problem in the most general terms is unlikely to get us anything.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

[gp101]

GonnaBe,

Are you for real? You had me lost a long time ago, but now you're just going for extra points. You don't like contemporary modern scripts? What are you, going to start your own new form? Lots o' luck. But before you prove to the world that you can write a better screenplay, how about you write just one coherent, error-free post on these boards? I know it's the internet and we all give a lot of latitude regarding grammar and spelling, but Christ's sake, this is a board for writers. I can't recall one of your posts that was free of glaring grammar and/or spelling errors. Or even close. I don't do it all the time either, but I try. And most of all, I don't claim I'll be famous.

Maybe you should change your name to GonnaBeInfamous? You're already there, my friend, considering your boasting and your statistics that everybody hacks to pieces.

Remember that a lot of spec scripts (and probably most of the ones that get picked up) are written by pro writers that already have writing credits. These scripts are called specs because, well, they weren't commissioned, and are written on spec; meaning these talented writers with previous credits came up with something on their own, as opposed to the work they get from studios; a work for hire. What we're doing is also writing spec scripts, but we're not known commodities. Big difference. A lot of competition.

Your "LOL" in most of your posts isn't an excuse for questionable comments or stats or grammar. I think this is the first time I've ever used that acronym ever. Oh dear!

[JustinoXXV]

Gonna, it may not be the scripts. Maybe you have a learning disability like AspiringWriter. Your posts often sound the same.

No offense to either of you, but if you can't read screenplays, then you have absolutely no chance.

Not only will you be unable to learn how to write screenplays properly, but a major way many writers have broken into the industry is get script reader, internships, or assistant jobs. And you'll have to be able to read scripts and cover them for those kinds of jobs. People use them to become aquainted with producers and agents.

You also should read scripts, produced and not, to see how your work compares to other writers. That will help you in deciding if your scripts need additional development.

Now, if no matter what, you and AspiringWriter simply cannot learn to read scripts (and it's possible that you may not, depending on the severity of your learning disabilities), then you might need to look for a new industry to be in. Or due something else in film, like help build the sets.

Can anyone imagine a novelist who says he/she cannot read novels, that he/she finds them boring and/or confusing? Would anyone ever take this person seriously? People would tell that would be novelist to give it up.

[gp101]

Justino, I hadn't even considered that. And if that is the case, my apologies to GonnaBeInfamous. Very insensitive and low of me if that is GBI's actual situation. If, however, that's not the case? I hope he gets down off his high horse and stops slamming everything not written by him.

[NikeeGoddess]

especially slammin' scripts that were slaved over, optioned, sold with millions spent on to produce, and millions of dollars made. constuctive criticism - yes! slammin' - what's the point?!

in fact - i suggest to anyone who's close to taking meetings and/or selling that they learn the practice of being extremely careful on all points of criticism. one negative comment about some script or flick to one with the slightest bit of greenlighting power can sink you. you never know.....they may have given the thumbs up on that old script when working for that other production company or related/connected to that flick in some way. slam it - and they'll turn against you no matter how good your script is. i'm not suggesting you don't criticize. they don't want yes-writing dummies who will say anything to get the job/sale. i'm saying just curb the severity of it.

[JustinoXXV]

This is true when you review scripts on peer forums like Zoetrope and Triggerstreet. You never know who is going to make that sale, or who is actually working in the industry.

You definitely don't want to slam something just because it isn't your taste (you don't like sex scenes in movies or scripts).

Like Nikee said, be constructive.

By the way, if they thought you were just totally slamming people you'd be banned on Zoetrope and Triggerstreet.

[GonnaBeFamous]

What you're basically saying is that you can't stand the type of writing that Hollywood loves.

Do you see, as an aspiring screenwriter, why that's a major problem for you?


No no no, I don't like the way they present it usuaully with big long speeches and 20 line narrations. Look at Ronin and shane black. Hard to read as hell.

[Enigma]

I think what some of the others are saying is that scripts are boring – because they so often don’t make sense. And I agree.



But, when I read (some) scripts and really concentrate on forming an “on screen” image in my mind, then read it a second time, it starts to make sense. I don’t know why, probably because I’ve, “… seen it before.”



A second category are scripts that do make sense on the first read.



What’s the difference? I think it’s because they encompass two styles of writing, the difference being mainly in the narrative. Me, when I read something from one of our people I will not guess what he or she is trying to say. I don’t have the time for that .. stuff. Keep it simple, yes, by all means, but make it perfectly clear.



An “established” writer is going to get a solid second read, no matter how vague or how badly written the script is. That's a fact of life. The rest of us don’t get that luxury, but that’s just an opinion – mine.



A good exercise would be to read a spec script, even read it twice, then see the actual picture (for the first time) and find out how close your interpretation of the script was.

It might help to decide on which of the two styles you’re more comfortable with.

[dpaterso]

I don't like the way they present it usuaully with big long speeches and 20 line narrations. Look at Ronin and shane black. Hard to read as hell.You've got a point with RONIN which I read just last week, it's kinda "blocky" -- big paragraphs would benefit from being broken up. Then again, it's still a decent read, it just needs more patience.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

[Jamesaritchie]

Well, I've heard a number of top directors and actors say that reading sceenplays was boring. I agree with them. For me, watching a good movie is exciting, but reading a script is boring. That's just how it is, and it's the same way for a lot of other people in the business. I've heard directors, actors, and producers say that no one in their right mind enjoys reading a screenplay. This may be an overstatement, but I think it has more than a grain of truth in it.

At best, it's the potential movie that will be made from the screenplay that can excite a reader, but screenplays are not written to be exciting in and of themselves.

This does not mean they shouldn't be read. The aspiring screenwriter who doesn't read an awful lot of scripts is likely to be aspiring his entire life. I mean, what does boring have to do with it? I always found math books boring, too, but if you want to learn math, you study the books. That's just how it is.

And if you want to write screenplays that will sell, then you need to read, and study, as many good screenplays as you can find. The aim isn't to be excited by what you're reading. It isn't like reading a novel. The aim is to learn from what you're reading, and the only way to learn is to read.

The excitement should come from the learning process, and from putting your own words down on paper in a way you know works. But thinking you can do this without reading screenplay after screenplay simply makes no sense at all.

As for the "rule," since when is having six to ten lines of dialogue a violation of the rules? Amateur or pro, if the scene calls for six to ten lines of dialogue, then you use six to ten lines of dialogue, and sometimes a scene will call for exactly this. Good dialogue shouldn't be boring, I don't care if there's a hundred lines of it. Some seem to think that if something isn't exploding, or someone isn't getting killed, then it's boring. Yeah, right.

People can't read screenplays purely and simply because they choose not to read screenplays. But if anyone can point me to a successful screenwriter who hasn't read a bloody million of the things, I'd really like to meet him.

[iknowitwasyoufreddo]

screenplays can be enjoyable as the next fun thing if it's good.

vig

[Mac H.]

screenplays can be enjoyable as the next fun thing if it's good.

vigvig - you really haven't figured out this whole 'secret identity' thing, have you?
Hint: If you want to remain anonymous, then don't sign your posts !

I wonder if it's a coincidence that you've come out of the closet just as Joe has left for holidays !?

Mac

[iknowitwasyoufreddo]

someone is obviously settting sonny correleone up and to think it was vig is just stupid.

vig

[WritingFool]

For the most part, the impression I get is gunnabe is some irritating little kid who chooses the most negative things to post about. He doesnt like plays because of this reason, he doesnt read scripts cause theyre all boring, he doesnt like the techniques used, da da da, and the list goes on and on.

Sometimes you have to reach a point where you say this is a lost cause, and although I might have some pretty good words of wisdom just for this, im choosing not to waste them on someone whos going to find soemthing else negative to post, as if hes just trying to ignite arguements, or cause drama.

If he cant see the beneift of reading others work, dont read it then. See what happens when you try getting famous and dont know the craft.

Good luck everyone else, I cant believe everyones drawn into all of his posts that are so ridiculously outrageous, they dont deserve a response.

[GonnaBeFamous]

For the most part, the impression I get is gunnabe is some irritating little kid who chooses the most negative things to post about. He doesnt like plays because of this reason, he doesnt read scripts cause theyre all boring, he doesnt like the techniques used, da da da, and the list goes on and on.

Sometimes you have to reach a point where you say this is a lost cause, and although I might have some pretty good words of wisdom just for this, im choosing not to waste them on someone whos going to find soemthing else negative to post, as if hes just trying to ignite arguements, or cause drama.

If he cant see the beneift of reading others work, dont read it then. See what happens when you try getting famous and dont know the craft.

Good luck everyone else, I cant believe everyones drawn into all of his posts that are so ridiculously outrageous, they dont deserve a response.


I don't think you're post really deserves much of a response either, writeFOOL.

[The ImagiNation]

*EDIT

[Kosh]

Where, besides The Screenwriter's Bible, can I find SPEC scripts?

[StephieM]

Gonna,

I can relate a tiny bit. I will confess that I have probally read maybe 10 scripts since I have decided to pick up screenwriting. But not because I don't like reading scripts, (I will read anything that grabs my attention), just some scripts are harder to get into. Maybe your just not reading the right scripts. Everyone here says that "12 Monkeys" is a great script. I must have tried reading that script a dozen times, I'm not kidding. But the truth is, reading a lot of scripts not only teaches you how to write a screenplay, it engraves it into your head, so that when you start to write, your automatically in that screenwriting mode.

As for your original question, yes, pro screenwriters are allowed to break the rules. Like someone said, because they know how to do it without screwing up the script. Also, because they've established themselves, they have proven to the world that they are good at what they do, therefore nobody cares wether or not they break the rules. They could break every rule in the book, and the producers wouldn't care. For an aspiring writer, things are different. You have to prove to Hollywood, that you can write a great script without breaking the rules. Once you've got yourself established, then you can do whatever you want.

VIG,
You know how in scary movies, the villian always returns. You can burn them alive, stake them through the heart, chop off their heads, and they STILL come back. What do you make of that? :)

Steph

[icerose]

VIG,
You know how in scary movies, the villian always returns. You can burn them alive, stake them through the heart, chop off their heads, and they STILL come back. What do you make of that? :)

Steph

I know I am not VIG, but I wanted to answer this as well. That is one thing I absolutely hated about scary movies involving other humans. I will never ever write a horror movie where the human in the story is unstoppable. There are plenty of horrible people who die just like everyone else so...:Shrug: I don't understand why movies like that indestructable enemy so much.

[StephieM]

Icerose,

It was actually meant as a joke, since Vig seems to keep coming back from the "dead" even though he's been banned a gazillion times.

I don't want to get off topic, but yeah, those kind of movies get on my nerves. The sequels are never as good as the first anyway. :)

Steph

[icerose]

Icerose,

It was actually meant as a joke, since Vig seems to keep coming back from the "dead" even though he's been banned a gazillion times.

I don't want to get off topic, but yeah, those kind of movies get on my nerves. The sequels are never as good as the first anyway. :)

Steph

Oh, okay that makes sense. I haven't been on this board long enough to know him in his previous life forms.

[WritingFool]

Hey Ice, thats great artwork, one of your creations?

[icerose]

Hey Ice, thats great artwork, one of your creations?

My sig? No a friend of mine put that together, but I do love to sketch and paint.

[Mac H.]

Where, besides The Screenwriter's Bible, can I find SPEC scripts?I don't know about plural, but Peter Brigg's "Alien .v. Predator" spec is here: http://www.geocities.com/scifiscripts/scripts/aliens_vs_predator.txt

And yes - it might have been a spec script that sold, but it has almost zero connection to the final movie.

Mac.