Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine -- cursing?

Manuel Royal · Jan 31, 2010

I've written what I feel is my best story so far; a 5,000 word piece with an unusual protagonist who foils a crime. I'd like to send it to Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine. (What the hell; might as well start at the top.)

But I've got a question that's not specifically addressed in the magazine's Writers' Guidelines: what level of cursing do they allow? My story has realistic speech -- that is, adults who curse the way adults curse in the real world. So there's the occasional "motherfucker".

I picked up an issue of the magazine and couldn't find any cursing stronger than you'd expect in a PG rated movie.

Does anybody have experience with submitting to Ellery Queen? I'm not going to tone down my story, so if their standards don't allow it, I'll just try somewhere else.

Thanks!

Maryn · Jan 31, 2010

They may well reject it on that basis, Manny. Their standards would not allow any variation of fuck and especially not motherfucker. I can't say with certainty, but I don't think they use even milder strong language like shit. They do accept hell and damn, whoop-di-doo.

I still submit to them on occasion, but they're really looking for Murder, She Wrote sort of material when I'm more often writing Se7en.

So I think you probably want to seek a market which wants harder material.

Maryn, amused that they're okay with murder, cannibalism, etc. but not fuck

stormie · Jan 31, 2010

I've read many issues of Ellery Queen. I agree (

) with Maryn.

Manuel Royal · Jan 31, 2010

Thanks, guys! Well, if that's their policy, there's no point in arguing with it. I'm HBO and they're CBS.

It's a good story; I'll find a market. I wrote it for my girlfriend's birthday last week; I'd love it if it were my first professional sale.

Maryn said:
Maryn, amused that they're okay with murder, cannibalism, etc. but not fuck.

I had the same thought -- the current issue has a story in which a character ruthlessly questions a helpless man, then breaks his neck so that "his head flops over like a rag doll's" (if I recall). But at least nobody says fuck.

Maryn · Jan 31, 2010

Well, thank goodness for that. My lone sale to them involved gay rape and cannibalism. But no strong language!

Maryn, who hasn't pleased them since

Manuel Royal · Jan 31, 2010

Honestly, I don't know what I'll do. It's a good story, and I don't want to sell it cheap. But there don't seem to be a lot of markets for crime/suspense short stories that pay professional rates.

I can try to tone it down; technically it would mean changing just a few words, but still, the bits of realistic adult cursing are important to the tone and the attitude projected.

stormie · Feb 1, 2010

EQMM is one of the best magazines to be published in. Why not try toning it down and see what happens? Keeping, of course, a copy of the original in the horrible off-chance they don't accept your work. Then submit to mags that do accept strong language.

Maryn · Feb 1, 2010

Manuel Royal said:
Honestly, I don't know what I'll do. It's a good story, and I don't want to sell it cheap. But there don't seem to be a lot of markets for crime/suspense short stories that pay professional rates.

I can try to tone it down; technically it would mean changing just a few words, but still, the bits of realistic adult cursing are important to the tone and the attitude projected.

The slamming doors for short mystery and suspense as markets wink out of existence is among the main reasons I changed genres.

AH and EQ are about it, for good paydays, and they're both fairly 'light' in terms of content.

Maryn, rejected by both many times

heyjude · Feb 1, 2010

Maryn, just out of curiosity, what do you write now?

Manuel Royal · Feb 1, 2010

heyjude said:
Maryn, just out of curiosity, what do you write now?

Seconded. You know what a curious fellow I am.

As for the OP: Fuck it; I'm going to send the story to EQMM as is. Now I'm curious to see how the rejection letter will be worded -- a simple form, or a personal note?

stormie · Feb 1, 2010

More than likely--a form letter if it's rejected. If they like the story enough to publish it, they might ask you to just take out the offending word(s).

Maryn · Feb 1, 2010

heyjude said:
Maryn, just out of curiosity, what do you write now?

I write erotica now, mostly, although I still dabble in suspense. Last fall I subbed something to EQMM which I thought was better than the one they bought, but they disagreed. However, the form rejection had a handwritten note saying it was nice to hear from me again.

Maryn, understanding that still meant No

heyjude · Feb 1, 2010

Oo! Does that mean erotic suspense?! Is that even a thing?

MarkEsq · Feb 1, 2010

heyjude said:
Oo! Does that mean erotic suspense?! Is that even a thing?

Erotic suspense involves being dangled from the ceiling and toyed with (in a good way).

heyjude · Feb 1, 2010

::groan::

DWSTXS · Feb 1, 2010

Manuel Royal said:
Seconded. You know what a curious fellow I am.

As for the OP: Fuck it; I'm going to send the story to EQMM as is. Now I'm curious to see how the rejection letter will be worded -- a simple form, or a personal note?

Their rejection letter to you: 'What the fuck is this shit? You know we look down on gratitious fucking cursing! Get your shit in order before you submit to us again M-effer!'

LOL

Manuel Royal · Feb 1, 2010

DWSTXS said:
Their rejection letter to you: 'What the fuck is this shit? You know we look down on gratitious fucking cursing! Get your shit in order before you submit to us again M-effer!'

LOL

You watch your fucking language, Mister. There are fucking ladies present.

My guess is that the subscribers for EQMM (and its sister magazine, Alfred Hitchcock Mystey Magazine) tend to be old fuckers. I mean, even older than me.

stormie · Feb 1, 2010

There was a discussion about the age group of most readers of EQMM and AHMM on the Reader's Forum there at their website. Dick Stodghill was one of the members. I said the covers really should be updated, as in, less of the classic '40s and '50s, and more modern ones to entice the younger set (as in those under 45). Most said no, the covers are just fine. Well, with this economy, and knowing that Janet H. wants to get more readership and reach a younger demographic, I suggested this.

But they're sticking with what they believe in: stories written without cursing, and classic covers about every other month that mostly appeal to the older generation.

heyjude · Feb 2, 2010

Okay, we've all proved that we know how to use the F word. That's enough, thanks.

Manuel Royal · Feb 2, 2010

heyjude said:
Okay, we've all proved that we know how to use the F word. That's enough, thanks.

Perhaps there's a misunderstanding. I wasn't asking about your standards for cursing; I was asking about the standards at Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine. If you have any relevant knowledge or experience you can share, that would be fucking great.

I've found quite a few online markets for mystery/crime stories, but they tend to be either non-paying or less than pro rates. I like the top-down submission philosophy a lot of people here talk about, so I'll at least start where I'd like to be published.

And I wonder how long that market will even exist, at least in print. It took a while for me to find EQMM at the bookstore; the few remaining digest-sized magazines with short stories were in a little ghetto to the side. Good to see Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction and Analog and F&SF are still around, as well as Alfred Hitchcock and Ellery Queen, but I wonder if any of them will still be printing in ten years.

heyjude · Feb 2, 2010

I'm asking everyone on this thread, nicely, to tone down gratuitous language.

Good Word · Feb 2, 2010

Hey, guess what? People under eighteen use this website! Have a little class. I'd really appreciate the language being edited out. People know what you mean--you can write it in a way that's not offensive. Edit or be edited. If you can't word it in a reasonable way, please don't post in this forum.

Thanks,

Mgmt.

Edited to add: Most of us swear from time to time, and language controls aren't turned on here, but lets be mindful and respectful of folks in our online community.

Roger J Carlson · Feb 2, 2010

Manuel Royal said:
Perhaps there's a misunderstanding. I wasn't asking about your standards for cursing; I was asking about the standards at Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine. If you have any relevant knowledge or experience you can share, that would be fucking great.

As a Super Moderator, I'd just like to point out that polite requests from forum moderators have the force of law. Please don't respond "in thread". If you feel a mod has overstepped his or her authority, feel free to contact a Super or Macallister, herself. The mods do discuss such situations, and occasionally Mac overturns a decision...but not very often.

Have a nice day.

stormie · Feb 2, 2010

Okay, trying again to get this thread back on track:

stormie said:
But (EQMM) is sticking with what they believe in: stories written without cursing (except for the occasional d*mn and h*ll), and classic covers about every other month that mostly appeal to the older generation.

Manuel Royal · Feb 2, 2010

Roger J Carlson said:
As a Super Moderator, I'd just like to point out that polite requests from forum moderators have the force of law. Please don't respond "in thread". If you feel a mod has overstepped his or her authority, feel free to contact a Super or Macallister, herself. The mods do discuss such situations, and occasionally Mac overturns a decision...but not very often.

Have a nice day.

A request would have been nice. I see that heyjude got around to making one after my last post here.

If heyjude, whose prior contribution to thread had consisted of eager curiosity regarding erotic suspense, wished to make it clear that he was now going to act as a mod rather than a poster, he should have used plainer, more direct language. We're supposed to be writers here.

A good first step would have been identifying himself as a mod. Maybe even saying something like "I'm acting as a mod in this post. Your use of bad words has forced me to abandon my recreational pursuit of information regarding erotic suspense. Now I must make a specific request, in my capacity as a mod." Then the request.

If you ever barge into one of my threads as a mod, do it right.

Good Word, do not PM me with the same thing you posted. "Be mindful of others" is a particular vague and useless suggestion. Have you any idea how many things I don't say, precisely because I'm mindful of others?

Now I've got a request for you guys: close the thread. I've had my question answered (thanks, Maryn and stormie!). I shan't edit my existing posts. You've soured my own thread for me.

Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine -- cursing?

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