Writing then reading books...

Eddyz Aquila · Jan 17, 2010

Since I started writing my own novel I felt that I really couldn't read any more "commercial" novels. I tried reading another Clive Cussler book, after 20 pages I dropped it. I felt as if everything was the same, and that it read so dull and uninteresting. Somewhat, my ability to chew "literary" novels has greatly increased (not that I didn't read them before), and I can now digest works such as "Far from the Madding Crowd" which I really didn't enjoy before.

Anyone else have the same feeling?

megan_d · Jan 17, 2010

I try to read a wide range of books, from literary to commercial. I love seeing, or rather reading, what less mainstream writers are doing to push the edges of narrative, but as an aspiring writer I know it's important to keep abreast of what is doing well in commercial markets. Sometimes I pick up a bestseller that bores me to tears, sometimes I jump right on the bandwagon and start singing its praises, and the same goes for literary books.

year90ninezero · Jan 17, 2010

I actually had the opposite thing happen. I hadn't read any commercial fiction since I was in early high school. When I started to write seriously, I began to have a certain respect for the commercial novel, and read some to get an idea of what commercial fiction even was. Granted, those novels aren't my favorites, but I give props to whomever has the skill set to get one of those done.

sunandshadow · Jan 17, 2010

I've heard people say about game development, you won't succeed at making a game until you stop playing games (at least temporarily). I think the same could apply to writing. But that's partly a time-management issue, partly a focusing and not getting distracted issue, so I guess it's not really related to changing taste.

Khimera9 · Jan 17, 2010

I'm having the same problem. I'm having a hard time reading the books I've had before because they're so simplistic and boring. However the best novels are the ones that can catch the writing and non-writing crowd. That's why 1984's still one of my favorite novels even after I started writing.

gothicangel · Jan 17, 2010

Eddyz Aquila said:
Since I started writing my own novel I felt that I really couldn't read any more "commercial" novels. I tried reading another Clive Cussler book, after 20 pages I dropped it. I felt as if everything was the same, and that it read so dull and uninteresting. Somewhat, my ability to chew "literary" novels has greatly increased (not that I didn't read them before), and I can now digest works such as "Far from the Madding Crowd" which I really didn't enjoy before.

Anyone else have the same feeling?

I'm the same. I can't stand anything that is blatantly genre. The flaws tend to have a habit of hitting you over the head with a very large bat!

These days I'll read genre fiction that can either be described as literary or mainstream. I've just finished Ian Rankin's latest and currently reading The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. I tried to read a Simon Kernick recently, but that sent me running back to David Peace.

I can't wait until the paperback of Wolf Hall comes out in March.

kuwisdelu · Jan 17, 2010

When I started to get a taste for literary writing at 12 or so, I haven't been able to go back to commercial writing. I don't care how possibly-interesting the story is.

scarletpeaches · Jan 17, 2010

I'm reading a British bestseller at the moment and man alive, the comma abuse in this book is fuck-awful. Characters' opinions and feelings change from one page to the next. There's no consistency. And sure, sure, hit me over the head with the good-writing-is-subjective cluebat all you like, but no. This is bad. This is a book which rapes the English language with its illiterate storycock, and if this is the standard of commercial fiction, I'd tell you to shove it.

Luckily, I know it isn't normal for a book to be this bad.

However, I aspire to improve, not settle, so the bad books out there are irrelevant to my future career prospects. So why read this one? I want to know why it sold in the first place. There must be something up with it, if only every seventeenth page being laced with crack.

gothicangel · Jan 17, 2010

scarletpeaches said:
I'm reading a British bestseller at the moment and man alive, the comma abuse in this book is fuck-awful. Characters' opinions and feelings change from one page to the next. There's no consistency. And sure, sure, hit me over the head with the good-writing-is-subjective cluebat all you like, but no. This is bad. This is a book which rapes the English language with its illiterate storycock, and if this is the standard of commercial fiction, I'd tell you to shove it.
QUOTE]

Anyone else want to know the author and book as much as me?

kuwisdelu · Jan 17, 2010

gothicangel said:
Anyone else want to know the author and book as much as me?

Seeing as you're in Scotland, you're a lot more likely to know than we on the other side of the pond. I'm quite curious, though.

Lady Ice · Jan 17, 2010

I think once you start writing and honing that skill, you're less forgiving of poorly-written books. When I first started reading classics, I found it hard to move back onto modern books.

Libbie · Jan 17, 2010

I've always felt repulsed by the simplicity and sameness of novels that many people would describe as "commercial," and have always (from the time I began reading adult novels, around the age of eight) been drawn to more literary use of language and character-focused fiction rather than plot-focused fiction. Nearly always, I feel strongly put off by what I feel is the triteness of the plots, and the way the characters are usually poorly developed and change very little. I have read some "commercial" fiction that stood out for its more creative plots and better characters, though, and I did enjoy those novels.

But usually when I feel like sitting down and reading, I want to experience the nuances of language and character, so I pick up a literary novel.

This probably makes me one of those horrible literary snobs -- not only do I write it, but I prefer to read it and just can't get into books with titles that use puns or exclamation points (Clive Cussler, I am looking at you here!)

Oh, well. Everybody I work with at the book store already thinks I'm a literature snob -- might as well have all the writers here think I am, too.

Libbie · Jan 17, 2010

gothicangel said:
I can't wait until the paperback of Wolf Hall comes out in March.

Is historical fiction being classes as "genre" now?

(Not that I have a problem with that at all -- I LOVE sci-fi and struggle to be good enough with plots to write it. And I enjoy fantasy, too -- George R. R. Martin is one of my favorite writers. I just wasn't aware that now straightforward historical is "genre." I want my own section in book stores for what I write, damn it! It would be nice if it stood apart from the rest of the fiction crowd so readers like me could find it more easily.)

scarletpeaches · Jan 17, 2010

I tried reading Wolf Hall recently and it made me want to spork my own eyes out.

gothicangel · Jan 17, 2010

Libbie said:
I've always felt repulsed by the simplicity and sameness of novels that many people would describe as "commercial," and have always (from the time I began reading adult novels, around the age of eight) been drawn to more literary use of language and character-focused fiction rather than plot-focused fiction. Nearly always, I feel strongly put off by what I feel is the triteness of the plots, and the way the characters are usually poorly developed and change very little. I have read some "commercial" fiction that stood out for its more creative plots and better characters, though, and I did enjoy those novels.

But usually when I feel like sitting down and reading, I want to experience the nuances of language and character, so I pick up a literary novel.

This probably makes me one of those horrible literary snobs -- not only do I write it, but I prefer to read it and just can't get into books with titles that use puns or exclamation points (Clive Cussler, I am looking at you here!)

Oh, well. Everybody I work with at the book store already thinks I'm a literature snob -- might as well have all the writers here think I am, too.

Well that makes two of us. Just call me Ms Snob!

kuwisdelu · Jan 17, 2010

Lady Ice said:
When I first started reading classics, I found it hard to move back onto modern books.

There's plenty of great modern books out there, too, just like there was plenty of crap back then.

It's just time is generally a pretty decent filter in making sure the crap doesn't get remembered.

Of course, sometimes it is anyway.

kuwisdelu · Jan 17, 2010

Libbie said:
I've always felt repulsed by the simplicity and sameness of novels that many people would describe as "commercial," and have always (from the time I began reading adult novels, around the age of eight) been drawn to more literary use of language and character-focused fiction rather than plot-focused fiction. Nearly always, I feel strongly put off by what I feel is the triteness of the plots, and the way the characters are usually poorly developed and change very little. I have read some "commercial" fiction that stood out for its more creative plots and better characters, though, and I did enjoy those novels.

But usually when I feel like sitting down and reading, I want to experience the nuances of language and character, so I pick up a literary novel.

This probably makes me one of those horrible literary snobs -- not only do I write it, but I prefer to read it and just can't get into books with titles that use puns or exclamation points (Clive Cussler, I am looking at you here!)

Oh, well. Everybody I work with at the book store already thinks I'm a literature snob -- might as well have all the writers here think I am, too.

I'll admit to being an avid Clancy and Cussler fan until my age hit the double digits.

Then I discovered Umberto Eco, Franz Kafka, Thomas Pynchon, et al., and discovered what writing really is. You see, the bland "classics" taught in school left a bitter taste in my mouth, so I was delighted to find there were great literary books out there that were -- for some reason -- not being taught to me. Took until freakin' high school before I had a class with some James Joyce in it.

gothicangel · Jan 17, 2010

Libbie said:
Is historical fiction being classes as "genre" now?

(Not that I have a problem with that at all -- I LOVE sci-fi and struggle to be good enough with plots to write it. And I enjoy fantasy, too -- George R. R. Martin is one of my favorite writers. I just wasn't aware that now straightforward historical is "genre." I want my own section in book stores for what I write, damn it! It would be nice if it stood apart from the rest of the fiction crowd so readers like me could find it more easily.)

It must be a British thing!

I've started out writing a psychological crime novel, but for the next one I've felt myself being drawn to historical. I think I went a bit literary snob for a while [read too many bad historicals too, obviously!]

Thanks! You've just given me the confidence to push ahead with the historical novels.

kuwisdelu · Jan 17, 2010

There is no difference between "genre" and "literary."

"Literary" are simply those books that transcend their genre to appeal across categorization with writing powerful enough to speak to everyone.

They're both just labels, and labels are pretty meaningless to me.

Claudia Gray · Jan 17, 2010

Well, I'm currently going back and forth between reading the very literary THE CHILDREN'S BOOK by A.S. Byatt and the very commercial THE BONE COLLECTOR by Jeffrey Deaver, without any whiplash. I've always enjoyed both commercial and literary fiction, and writing has given me an increased appreciation for how difficult both kinds of books can be to create.

I would hate it if writing took away my ability to enjoy reading in any capacity, in any way. That is just not the relationship I want to have to writing, or to reading.

Libbie · Jan 17, 2010

kuwisdelu said:
Then I discovered Umberto Eco, Franz Kafka, Thomas Pynchon, et al., and discovered what writing really is.

You know you're going to piss off a few people with that one, right?

I'm very lucky in that I had great English teachers throughout middle and high school. I was taught Lord of the Flies, To Kill a Mockingbird, Metamorphosis, and I had one awesome teacher a couple of years in a row who let us choose our own literature (as long as it was something he'd read and could actually adapt to his lesson plans.) So in high school I was also "taught" Lolita, A Clockwork Orange, Don Quixote, Dandelion Wine, The Left Hand of Darkness, and many other awesome novels. I was way, way lucky. (But I attended an alternative high school that was arts-focused and had a kind of hippie-dippie way of teaching kids, so I guess that's not too surprising.)

But yeah, the commercial thing has never really done it for me. I do read it sometimes. I'm reading my first romance novel that isn't a beta read now -- one of Sharon Page's books. It's fun. I'm enjoying it. It's not something that will stick with me after I've finished it, I think, but it's entertaining me. I don't tend to be attracted to books that are meant only as light entertainment, but I have a ton of respect for authors who write those books. They serve an important role in the overall community of books. They're usually not my cup of tea, often making me run screaming from their blurbs and titles, but I respect the fact that they're out there doing their thing.

(My co-workers at the book store like to torment me by bringing especially awful titles and blurbs to read out loud while I try to work. Apparently I contort into fits of horror and his is really funny to them.)

Libbie · Jan 17, 2010

gothicangel said:
Thanks! You've just given me the confidence to push ahead with the historical novels.

COME OVER TO THE DARK SIDE.

Libbie · Jan 17, 2010

kuwisdelu said:
There is no difference between "genre" and "literary."

"Literary" are simply those books that transcend their genre to appeal across categorization with writing powerful enough to speak to everyone.

They're both just labels, and labels are pretty meaningless to me.

Right, well, that's why I put it in quotes. While I agree with your assertion, the industry as a whole does indeed recognize "genre." Primarily, they know it tends to sell better than "literary" stuff, and so it gets its own shelves in the stores. This fills me with woe, because so far I have sucked at writing what the publishing industry would call "genre" fiction, and this means I probably will have a harder time making a living at writing than I'd hoped.

scarletpeaches · Jan 17, 2010

kuwisdelu said:
...labels are pretty meaningless to me.

Unfortunately for you, they mean a lot to agents and publishers.

kuwisdelu · Jan 17, 2010

Libbie said:
I was taught Lord of the Flies, To Kill a Mockingbird, Metamorphosis, and I had one awesome teacher a couple of years in a row who let us choose our own literature (as long as it was something he'd read and could actually adapt to his lesson plans.) So in high school I was also "taught" Lolita, A Clockwork Orange, Don Quixote, Dandelion Wine, The Left Hand of Darkness, and many other awesome novels. I was way, way lucky. (But I attended an alternative high school that was arts-focused and had a kind of hippie-dippie way of teaching kids, so I guess that's not too surprising.)

Lolita. Yum.

Although to be honest I think Harper Lee was a talent-less hack.

scarletpeaches said:
Unfortunately for you, they mean a lot to agents and publishers.

People can apply whatever labels they like. Won't change how I feel.

Won't make it any easier for me to find stuff I want to read until they start dividing the General Fiction section into "hysterical realism," "magical realism," "existential propaganda," "religious treatise in disguise," "Nietzsche-in-book-form," "Romance in the nineteenth-century-sense of the word," "minimalism," etc., etc.

Writing then reading books...

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