Whom after a preposition?

m00bah · Jan 12, 2010

I'm trying to get my head around using the correct pronouns in places depending on whether it is the subject or object of the sentence and whether or not you have a preposition in the sentence.

In the sentence: "He is one of those men who sing in the shower."

I was confused by the 'who' and then became even more confused because 'whom' doesn't sound right. But the reason I wondered if 'whom' should be there is because of the preposition 'of' earlier in the sentence. Obviously 'whom' is used for the object and 'who' is for the subject of a sentence in it's use but after a preposition I thought you had to use the object version regardless. Or is this only when 'who' or 'whom' occurs as the next word directly after a preposition word?

Judg · Jan 12, 2010

I seriously suggest you learn how to diagram sentences. "Those men" is the object of the preposition, so "of" has no influence on "who" at all. In other words, "of those men" is a unit, a prepositional phrase. "Of" is in charge of it, and of absolutely nothing else.

Here you are combining two simple sentences to make one complex one. "He is one of those men" and "Men sing in the shower." "Who" is replacing the "men" in the second sentence in order to form a link between the two sentences. Because, in the second sentence, "men" is the subject, you need a relative pronoun that is a subject. "Who" is a subject. "Whom" is an object.

m00bah · Jan 12, 2010

Judg said:
I seriously suggest you learn how to diagram sentences. "Those men" is the object of the preposition, so "of" has no influence on "who" at all. In other words, "of those men" is a unit, a prepositional phrase. "Of" is in charge of it, and of absolutely nothing else.

Here you are combining two simple sentences to make one complex one. "He is one of those men" and "Men sing in the shower." "Who" is replacing the "men" in the second sentence in order to form a link between the two sentences. Because, in the second sentence, "men" is the subject, you need a relative pronoun that is a subject. "Who" is a subject. "Whom" is an object.

I bought a book on grammar 2 days ago and have been studying it religiously. I've been taking in so much information that it can get a tad confusing at times. It may have sounded like a dumb question but I appreciate your help, and everything is much clearer now.

Judg · Jan 12, 2010

It is not dumb to ask things you need to know. It is much dumber to pretend you understand when you don't.

I wasn't telling you to learn to diagram sentences as a putdown. It was a serious suggestion that would help you a lot. And yes, if you are plunging into an intense session of grammar-learning, it's normal that it could be confusing.

I just wish they still taught grammar properly in schools. They didn't get around to anything serious until I was in Grade 8. Then I asked so many stupid questions that I made everybody else in the class roll their eyes. I also got the highest mark.

So ask your "stupid" questions. You will get the last laugh by being the one who really knows what you're doing. I applaud you.

m00bah · Jan 12, 2010

Judg said:
It is not dumb to ask things you need to know. It is much dumber to pretend you understand when you don't.

I wasn't telling you to learn to diagram sentences as a putdown. It was a serious suggestion that would help you a lot. And yes, if you are plunging into an intense session of grammar-learning, it's normal that it could be confusing.

I just wish they still taught grammar properly in schools. They didn't get around to anything serious until I was in Grade 8. Then I asked so many stupid questions that I made everybody else in the class roll their eyes. I also got the highest mark.

So ask your "stupid" questions. You will get the last laugh by being the one who really knows what you're doing. I applaud you.

I'm studying sentence diagramming as I type this. It looks like it could be helpful indeed! Yes, we learnt none of this in school. I am 24 now and decided that if I want to write a novel then I better have a solid grasp of grammar. It's surprising how much I've learnt already! It's also fun! Thanks for your help!

Terie · Jan 12, 2010

To figure out whether to use 'who' or 'whom', there's an easy trick that doesn't require learning grammar rules. (Not saying not to learn the rules, just saying that learning the shortcuts is also good.

)

Recast (in your mind, not in your work!) the sentence so that it uses 'he' or 'him' instead. (Or, um, she/her..you get the drift.) If 'he' is correct in the recast sentence, use 'who'; if 'him' is correct in the recast sentence, use 'whom'.

Using your original example, you'd recast it to 'He sings in the shower,' so now you know that 'who' is correct.

Similarly, take another example: 'The girl who/whom this shoe fits is the one the prince will marry.' Recast: 'The shoe fits her.' So 'whom' is correct in the original sentence: 'The girl whom this shoe fits is the one the prince will marry.'

ResearchGuy · Jan 12, 2010

m00bah said:
. . . In the sentence: "He is one of those men who sing in the shower.". . .

Who is subject of the verb sing there. Nominative. Those modifies "men."

In contrast, "He is one of them." In that sentence, "them" is not the subject of a verb, but is the object of the preposition "of."

It does get confusing. Investigate sentence diagramming. Here is one site that might help: http://www.lifestreamcenter.net/DrB/Lessons/TS/diagram.htm

--Ken

RevisionIsTheKey · Jan 12, 2010

m00bah said:
I bought a book on grammar 2 days ago and have been studying it religiously.

Well, here's your problem. Stop studying it in church.
:roll:

Matera the Mad · Jan 14, 2010

I remember when I learned how to diagram sentences. What a revelation. It was great, I loved doing it. I've forgotten all of it, but I can make sentences that work. That is what matters most.

Whom after a preposition?

m00bah

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

m00bah

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

m00bah

Terie

Writer is as Writer does

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

RevisionIsTheKey

Sigh...

Matera the Mad

Bartender, gimme a Linux Mint