Please tell me about these "How to write" books

I love Self-Editing for Fiction Writers and I think it's a great choice for the point you are at with your book (finished with a draft, looking to revise). I've read a number of writing books and found that one to be the most helpful in terms of actually giving advice I could, and did, use to make my book better.

Hello!

First, major hugs to you for having a daily writing routine. You're right. It will make you a batter writer. And also YAY for thinking about your next project. You rock.

Of your list, I've read Card's, King's, and Self-Editing.

Card's I found to have valuable advice on practical world-building and story-starting. Good stuff in there, even if you don't write sci-fi and fantasy. His opinion and advice concerning agents is, I feel, somewhat outdated.

On Writing was interesting for the look it gives into one writer's career and daily routines, and there is a lot of great advice in it. However, King's style is dissimilar to my own, and I really don't like his fiction. Therefore, I found his advice on the actual craft of writing to be counter to what I instinctively feel is "right."

Self-Editing for Fiction Writers was amazing cover-to-cover. I've read it a few times now and return to it often.

I've also read The Elements of Style, and certainly there is a lot of good advice in there for those who want to write in a very straightforward, unembellished voice. If, however, you want to get a bit more literary, I think Strunk & White is best followed up by Arthur Plotnik's book Spunk & Bite, which puts much of Elements into a modern perspective and tosses out a lot of brainfood for developing a more unique voice.

They're interesting reads, giving you one writer's perspective, but the only one I find useful on a day-to-day basis is Strunk & White.

Dave Willhoite said:

On Writing, by Stephen King.>> Found this really entertaining. Enjoyed it as a read...and got some great advice out of it...but was more into the insights into King's life than anything else. I've read it a couple of times.

How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy by Orson Scott Card>> I long ago boycotted Card books...I am sickened by his views and wouldn't stoop to read his words.

The First Five Pages by Noah Lukeman >>never read it

and

Self Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Brown and Dave King.>>never read it

Right now, I am most concerned with the editing and revision process.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Dave

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Dave Willhoite said:

Hi,

I finished my third novel length story a few weeks ago, and I have spent the time since then preparing for revision, and preparing for the next project. I am producing daily writings, in the hopes that this will make me a better writer.

Mostly, I am thinking about the last rough draft, and how excited I am about it.

So, I have bought a mess of books. Some, I dismissed immediately after reading, but some I mostly agreed with.

Some, I immediately saw as valuable, like The Elements of Style.

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It's pretty useless to me since I write British English. Orson Scott Card however calls it a terrible book for fiction writers.

Dave Willhoite said:

Please tell me about these books.

On Writing, by Stephen King.

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Excellent book.

Dave Willhoite said:

How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy by Orson Scott Card

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Haven't read it.

Dave Willhoite said:

The First Five Pages by Noah Lukeman

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Haven't read it.

Dave Willhoite said:

and

Self Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Brown and Dave King.

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Haven't red it.

Dave Willhoite said:

Right now, I am most concerned with the editing and revision process.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Dave

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Dave Willhoite said:

On Writing, by Stephen King.

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Good but mostly autobiography and inspiration with a few bits of basic writing advice.

Dave Willhoite said:

How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy by Orson Scott Card

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Haven't read it.

Dave Willhoite said:

The First Five Pages by Noah Lukeman

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All right. IMO not the best.

Dave Willhoite said:

Self Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Brown and Dave King.

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I really liked this one and, given your specific concerns, it's probably likely to be the most helpful for you.

You learn to write by writing, things like grammar and spelling can be learned. But your style of writing is self-taught, and in the end, others can only advise. It really does help to have someone to bounc ideas and questions off of however, which is why these forums exist.
One of my professors is a full-time journalist, and he wishes quite often that he had someone else at his job to bounce ideas off.

Anything by a recognizable author has worth; everything else (the Writing Fiction For Dummies level of crap) can be easily ignored - don't rush out to buy every book about writing on the market, as the vast majority aren't worth the time or money. Also, libraries don't charge you anything for reading the ones which appeal to you.

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon for 'Self-Editing for Fiction Writers' - really helpful, well written and did wonders for my WIP editing.

For more plot based revisions and a damn funny read, I always recommend ‘How Not to Write a Novel’ by Howard Mittlemark. I’ve never read a ‘How to’ that made me laugh so much and mine is covered with notes. It was invaluable for my second draft.

A substantial number of writers have made a lot more money selling "how to write" books than they ever did, or ever will, selling other kinds of writing. Obviously this is not true of King, Card or Bradbury. But a lot of "how-to-write" crap out there is exactly that: crap.

caw

A substantial number of writers have made a lot more money selling "how to write" books than they ever did, or ever will, selling other kinds of writing. Obviously this is not true of King, Card or Bradbury. But a lot of "how-to-write" crap out there is exactly that: crap.

caw

blacbird said:

A substantial number of writers have made a lot more money selling "how to write" books than they ever did, or ever will, selling other kinds of writing. Obviously this is not true of King, Card or Bradbury. But a lot of "how-to-write" crap out there is exactly that: crap.

caw

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I believe H.L. Menchen said: "Those who can--do. Those who can't--teach."

blacbird said:

A substantial number of writers have made a lot more money selling "how to write" books than they ever did, or ever will, selling other kinds of writing.

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I remember popping across screenwriting techniques in a book on writing fiction and that immediately made me look to see what the author had published. Though her book was entirely on writing novels, she hadn't ever published one. Lots of non-fiction, but not fiction. Since then, seeing if the author has actually published fiction has been an automatic criterion for me before I spend the money on the book.

Just wanted to add that if you have any interest in writing movies, or just want a better understanding of their structure, I recommend Syd Field's Screenplay.

On Writing is a great book, not only for its technical information, but I also found it inspiring.

Self Editing for Fiction Writers is a must-have for any writer. Read it. Use it.

Elements of Style is a great reference for the nuts and bolts of writing.

The First Five Pages. I bought it and read it. And it is helpful and worth a read, but I didn't find anything in there that really stood out as being especially helpful.

I haven't read Card's How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy, although I did read, most of, his book Characters and Viewpoint. I highly recommend this book. It's very thorough, very helpful.

One book I don't recommend is Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. It's supposed to be, more or less, a primer on proper grammar. It's more of a book-long rant about the improper usage of grammar in the modern world. I found it exceedingly long-winded, opinionated, and a waste of my time.

underthecity said:

Elements of Style is a great reference for the nuts and bolts of writing.


I haven't read Card's How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy, although I did read, most of, his book Characters and Viewpoint. I highly recommend this book. It's very thorough, very helpful.

One book I don't recommend is Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. It's supposed to be, more or less, a primer on proper grammar. It's more of a book-long rant about the improper usage of grammar in the modern world. I found it exceedingly long-winded, opinionated, and a waste of my time.

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Okay, I disagree on Elements...I found it dry and boring. I also disagree on Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. I found it useful, educating without being dry, and worth my time.

This simply shows that opinions vary and every book has its supporters. No one opinion on a board is more valuable than others. (although we might secretly think so in the recesses of our minds)

Another book I loved, because of the way the author puts things is Woe is I by Patricia O'Connor (maybe O'Connell)

I did agree with Underthecity on Characters and viewpoint. It's a good book on character building.

David

I've read all you listed books except the SciFi one, and I've read Characters and Viewpoint by Orson Scott Card. I'd vouch for all of them based on the authors and content.

For those of you who say you learn writing by writing, here's an analogy.
I played golf (poorly) for three years. I played regularly with the same people and rarely had a good game. One day, I had the fortune to play with a scratch golfer. He watched my swing, and showed me what I was doing wrong. One lesson improved my game more than 3 years of playing.
The same applies to writing. You can write for years, but if you continue to make the same mistakes, you will never get better. You must turn to the experts, to learn HOW to write.

'Experts' is the operative word here.

I wonder who taught the scratch golfer - if anyone.

Some people don't need to learn how to write - what they do need is to master techniques, all of which are available for all to see in existing published novels if one cares to read them carefully and to look for the manner in which information and images are conveyed.

RJK said:

I've read all you listed books except the SciFi one, and I've read Characters and Viewpoint by Orson Scott Card. I'd vouch for all of them based on the authors and content.

For those of you who say you learn writing by writing, here's an analogy.
I played golf (poorly) for three years. I played regularly with the same people and rarely had a good game. One day, I had the fortune to play with a scratch golfer. He watched my swing, and showed me what I was doing wrong. One lesson improved my game more than 3 years of playing.
The same applies to writing. You can write for years, but if you continue to make the same mistakes, you will never get better. You must turn to the experts, to learn HOW to write.

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On writing? The best how-to book out there, bar none. And perhaps the only completely honest book.

Card's book? Depends on the kind of writer you are. Ggreat advice for some writers, lousy advice for others.

The first five pages? If you use it as a guideline, rather than as a must do, it's excellent.

Self-editing? Meh. Some excellent advice, some downright silly advice.

Bufty said:

'Experts' is the operative word here.

I wonder who taught the scratch golfer - if anyone.

Some people don't need to learn how to write - what they do need is to master techniques, all of which are available for all to see in existing published novels if one cares to read them carefully and to look for the manner in which information and images are conveyed.

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I'll play the devil's advocate for this one.

The golfer was my cousin, and he took lessons for several years.


You added a new requirement - reading - to the learning matrix. So Let's suppose I've read nothing but comic books to-date, and I want to become a writer. I have no idea what good literature looks like and have no way to judge, so I'll select two best selling novels, and one non-fiction.

• Lost Symbol, by Dan Brown
• Twilight, by Stephanie Myers
• Going Rogue, by Sarah Palin

Now, if I can only write like these people.

Bufty said:

'Experts' is the operative word here.

I wonder who taught the scratch golfer - if anyone.

Some people don't need to learn how to write - what they do need is to master techniques, all of which are available for all to see in existing published novels if one cares to read them carefully and to look for the manner in which information and images are conveyed.

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I don't know who, but someone taught the scratch golfer. You just don't get that good without having a teacher, even if that teacher comes in the form of videos, etc.

I'm not sure what you mean by some people don;t need to learn how to write? We all need to learn how to write. Technique is writing, and while reading published novels is a must, how-to books are written by those who have studied published novels, learned how to apply this to their own novels, and are now telling us how they did it.

But if you don't know technique, you do not know how to write.

Jamesaritchie said:

while reading published novels is a must, how-to books are written by those who have studied published novels, learned how to apply this to their own novels, and are now telling us how they did it.

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My thoughts exactly. Many people say you don't need to read how-to books on writing, and that all you really need to do is read. I call bullshit on that.

Before I started writing my first "story" in high school, I had read hundreds of books: juvenile, adult fiction (especially Stephen King), nonfiction . . . I was ready to write. I had it down.

My first efforts were crap crap crap crap crap.

You can read a novel a day, but it won't make you a good writer. There are nuances and rules in writing that a casual reader won't pick up. POV, syntax, third person omnicient versus third person familiar, past tense, present tense, dialogue--what's important and what's not. The list is endless. Spend a day reading "Learn Writing With Uncle Jim" and get a sample of what it takes.

You just can't learn it all from reading, IMHO. That's why how-to books are so helpful.

To use RJK's golf example above. I can watch pro games on TV. I could watch ten of them in a row. Will that make me a golfer? I can swing a golf club. I could probably knock the ball down a course and eventually make it to the hole. Does that make me a golfer? Maybe, but I couldn't compete in a tournament because I wouldn't be very good. Unless I took lessons and learned the techniques and nuances on good golf playing. With enough practice, maybe I could compete in the majors.

Likewise, if I practice enough writing, "take lessons," learn the techniques and nuances of novel writing, maybe I could compete in the majors one day by getting published.


I'm all for any how-to book on writing, even Eats, Shoots and Leaves if you want. Just practice and learn. And of course, keep reading.


On a side note, people often point to Stephen King and say his big break was Carrie and everything went up from there. That's true, however, King was an experienced short-story writer whose works had appeared in numerous magazines by that point. He had also written several novels that were yet unsold, Carrie being his most recent. King spent months, years, practicing and honing his craft before he was finally published. His success did not come overnight.

Dave Willhoite said:

Please tell me about these books.

On Writing, by Stephen King.

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Not so much a "how to write" book as a "My life, thoughts on writing and how I write and screw you if it doesn't work for you" book.

I've reread the second part (the non-biographical part) several times. I like his insights to his own process. Helps me look at my own process with a more critical eye and understand how I work better.

How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy by Orson Scott Card

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I was unimpressed, but I'm rarely impressed by Card's HTW books. Also double-check the copyright on it. I believe it's old and that the genres may have well moved on from what he was writing.

The First Five Pages by Noah Lukeman

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Returned for a full refund, but I have friends who absolutely adore it. Like any book, there's things that can be picked out of it as useful, depending on your stage of writing experience and comprehension. Everything mentioned here I found better discussed in Maass' Writing the Breakout Novel.

Self Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Brown and Dave King.

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I've heard this toted as wonderful and the greatest thing since the first draft, but I've never been able to get into it, personally.