Is this dating?

Hedgetrimmer · Jan 11, 2010

I was tinkering with one of my novels this morning and found myself changing a line. Then I wondered if doing so would "date" the work. For some reason that's supposed to be such a bad thing, though I still don't get it. All work is dated in some way. But I ramble.

The line in question takes place during a football game between teenage boys: Scottie shot into the backfield like a hungry pit bull. [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Revised to: Scottie shot into the backfield like one of Michael Vick's pit bulls.

Of course if the revision doesn't add anything then it really doesn't matter. Still, I'm wondering if something like this is what is meant by dating a work in an undesirable way.

Terie · Jan 11, 2010

I don't think the danger in this case is as much dating the work as it is being obscure. I haven't a clue who Michael Vick is or why his pit bulls are significant, so you lose the point. After all, what if he's someone known for his sweet dogs? See what I mean? In this case, 'hungry' makes your point clear.

ChainsawLicker · Jan 11, 2010

Ten years down the road, the only people that are going to understand that are people that were paying attention to the the news between 2007-2009. Even then, it will probably take a bit of contemplation.
"Michael Vick? Who was that? Dang, it'll come to me."

Caitlin Black · Jan 11, 2010

I have no idea who Vick is.

Parametric · Jan 11, 2010

Me either.

ChainsawLicker · Jan 11, 2010

lol, every one of you is from a country other than the USA. Well, there you go then.

kaitie · Jan 11, 2010

I got it.

It would be dating it in a few years time, though. That may not be a bad thing, though. My last story took place in 2007, and I had loads of stuff in there dating it to that time period, but I had fun and considered it an almost nostalgic sort of thing, and a bit of a play on how fast things change these days. Personally I like the Vick line better because it has more...character or something to it. You could always do it and then if some editor somewhere down the line found it dated you could change it.

Cyia · Jan 11, 2010

I don't think the two lines are synonymous. A "hungry" pit bull gives a definite picture. The obscure reference to a pit used for dog fighting, not so much. Maybe you're going for the football connection by mentioning Vick, but it doesn't really work. If you want something in between the two, try "angry".

Krintar · Jan 11, 2010

Terie said:
I don't think the danger in this case is as much dating the work as it is being obscure.

This. The reference unnecessarily limits your audience, as a lot of people outside the US (and I would imagine a fair few within) would have to google it - and nobody wants to refer to Google in the middle of reading a book.
If you're okay with that then hey, good for you. It's your story; who are we to tell you who your audience should be? Just keep it in mind.

scarletpeaches · Jan 11, 2010

I thought this thread was going to be along the lines of "If I kiss a girl and she touches my pee-pee, are we dating?"

But yeah. Never assume people know or care who Michael Vick is. What's newsworthy in the States usually isn't, elsewhere.

thethinker42 · Jan 11, 2010

scarletpeaches said:
What's newsworthy in the States usually isn't, elsewhere.

It usually isn't newsworthy there, either...

kaitie · Jan 11, 2010

thethinker42 said:
It usually isn't newsworthy there, either...

Good Lord, ain't that the truth.

lucidzfl · Jan 11, 2010

Hedgetrimmer said:
I was tinkering with one of my novels this morning and found myself changing a line. Then I wondered if doing so would "date" the work. For some reason that's supposed to be such a bad thing, though I still don't get it. All work is dated in some way. But I ramble.

The line in question takes place during a football game between teenage boys: Scottie shot into the backfield like a hungry pit bull. [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
Revised to: Scottie shot into the backfield like one of Michael Vick's pit bulls.

Of course if the revision doesn't add anything then it really doesn't matter. Still, I'm wondering if something like this is what is meant by dating a work in an undesirable way.

I am American so I know what you're talking about but yeah I wouldn't include it. Not only does no one outside of America know what you're talking about but it might be considered in bad taste.

And yeah it is pretty dating.

Just my 2 ringits.

Alpha Echo · Jan 11, 2010

I kind of like the mention of Vick - and I understand the reference.

But...I get it now. Not sure if I would remember ten years from now. I think I've dated my work before by mentioning maybe a singer or something, but the reader can deduce who that person is by the context, whether or not he listens to country music (or whatever).

lucidzfl · Jan 11, 2010

Alpha Echo said:
I kind of like the mention of Vick - and I understand the reference.

But...I get it now. Not sure if I would remember ten years from now. I think I've dated my work before by mentioning maybe a singer or something, but the reader can deduce who that person is by the context, whether or not he listens to country music (or whatever).

Lets look at how dating a few other references could be.

"I cracked my bat on her leg like she was Nancy Kerrigan."

"It was a bad call. Like a Pete Rose bet."

"It was a bigger upset than Roy Jones Jr losing to the Koreans."

"That dude had more chicks than Tiger woods"

(Ok that last one is cute, but is anyone gonna remember in 10 years?)

I personally try to avoid anything that would date my material.

(Of course, most of what I write takes place near future lol)

colealpaugh · Jan 11, 2010

Vick isn't allowed to have pit bulls.

And cat fighting is much better than dog fighting, anyway.

Wayne K · Jan 11, 2010

I think readers will find it tacky. It's making a joke at the expense of victims. It will make dog lovers consider throwing your book across the room. "Scottie shot into the backfield" will suffice here.

You don't know how people will react to a statement like this.

Hedgetrimmer · Jan 11, 2010

Yeah, I was going for the football reference, thinking that would give the line more texture. But you're all right. It defeats the purpose if some people may not know what the controversy was all about. I'll stick with "hungry" or come up with something less cliche. Thanks for setting me straight.

SarahMacManus · Jan 11, 2010

I think it reads better as "hungry pit bull".

colealpaugh · Jan 11, 2010

Wayne K said:
I think readers will find it tacky. It's making a joke at the expense of victims. It will make dog lovers consider throwing your book across the room. "Scottie shot into the backfield" will suffice here.

You don't know how people will react to a statement like this.

Just my two cents, but maybe the character/narrator is supposed to be tacky. I've had characters commit sexual assault and that's way worse that dog fighting. Dog fighting is a hugely popular sport and would get great cable rating if it were legal.

Heck, if my wife didn't forbid it, I'd watch cage fighting all day...and that's people!

But my hat goes in with those saying it's too obscure.

DVGuru · Jan 11, 2010

I'm all for pop culture references as a way to make your writing seem more real, but I hate when they are used in any form of description. You're trying to paint a picture in the reader's mind, but if they don't understand the reference, you've lost them. Having a character mention Vick is fine. But using Vick to describe an action...I would avoid it.

Maxinquaye · Jan 11, 2010

Damn. I thought someone had got hold of my calendar.

*looks at it and weeps*

*tiptoeing out of thread*

ChristineR · Jan 11, 2010

Actually, I know who Vick is, and I know about his pit bulls, but I didn't realize that they were particularly hungry, at least as fighting dogs go. Was he starving them for some reason? Is it normal to starve fighting dogs? Are fighting dogs always hungry? So I'd say that the reference was lost on me.

IceCreamEmpress · Jan 11, 2010

If this is a YA/MG book, the chances that your reader will be aware of Michael Vick are pretty slim--Vick's already served his time and is out of the headlines now, and by the time a book goes to press a year from now, he'll be even less on people's radar, especially younger folks.

colealpaugh · Jan 11, 2010

ChristineR said:
Actually, I know who Vick is, and I know about his pit bulls, but I didn't realize that they were particularly hungry, at least as fighting dogs go. Was he starving them for some reason? Is it normal to starve fighting dogs? Are fighting dogs always hungry? So I'd say that the reference was lost on me.

Dogs would lose muscle if they were starved. Vick fed them like athletes right up until he allowed them to be torn apart, the fugghead.

Hungry as a Blue Whale would work, but they don't run very well.

Is this dating?

What happened, just there?

Writer is as Writer does

Oh snap, it's onomatopoeia!

Wild one

Oh snap, it's onomatopoeia!

With great power comes

Rewriting My Destiny

Abnormal Romance Author

With great power comes

Back from the dead

I should be writing.

Back from the dead

"Bear trumps Elephants!"

What happened, just there?

"Bear trumps Elephants!"

Plays too many video games

That cheeky buggerer

What happened?

Hapless Virago

"Bear trumps Elephants!"