The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch

SPMiller

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Best fantasy novel I've read in about two years. Contrast with my rant on Perdido Street Station.

Big shock, believe me. I expected to dislike this novel based on what I'd heard of it, and since it's a debut novel, I was especially skeptical. Yet another shitty pseudo-Renaissance fantasy novel, I imagined, with a bunch of boring stuff in it.

In spite of myself, I ended up enjoying it. (I really should learn not to make assumptions.) The book isn't without flaws, of course. Some of the plot twists are unbearably predictable. The twins were not especially well-drawn. There's a nasty plot hole where Locke does something plain stupid for no good reason. But I can forgive these flaws (and a few others) because Lynch wrote the story in a clear, straightforward, entertaining manner. Aside from some purple diction in a few places, his style is transparent. No affectations. And for this sort of story, I think it works perfectly.

This book also succeeds in all the ways that The Name of the Wind, another fairly recent debut novel from Patrick Rothfuss, fails. Rothfuss uses two narrative threads ("past" and "present") skipping back and forth between the older protagonist and his younger-self-in-training. Lynch does the same thing with his band of thieves, and it works. Looking back, I can see all the mechanical ways in which Lynch's approach is superior. Lynch doesn't spend too long in a single place, as Rothfuss often did. Lynch takes you back into training only when it matters to the plot, whereas Rothfuss often went back to older-Quothe for no clear reason. Lynch's text is free of the odd devices Rothfuss uses, especially the whiny self-indulgent "if only I had done blah blah blah" intruding on the narrative. Perhaps most importantly, Lynch's plot actually goes somewhere and has a real ending, unlike Rothfuss's plot.

But enough of that comparison. Lynch's work can stand on its own. He knows when and where to add relevant descriptions and backstory. He keeps the story moving and doesn't provide many opportunities to get bored. And even though I had a good idea what was going to happen at various points in the story, I was able to shut down my inner editor and enjoy the ride. I couldn't put the fucking thing down. I can't think of a much better compliment than that.
 
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Mr Flibble

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Vive le difference!


I sort of enjoyed it ( except the interminable cookery descriptions. Do I need to know how to cook things I'll never see? No, but I probably could after that. And the constant flashback chapters kept dragging me away from the story) until 2/3 of the way when it all got just too predictable and I could see the end a mile away. At that point the so-so enjoyment in the characters ( I did like Jean I have to say. Locke was...um.. I liked not liking him :D) kinda went out the window. I had to make myself finish it.

In the end it just wasn't for me.
 

Parametric

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In the end it just wasn't for me.

Every time I read a post of yours about a book, I've come away with the impression that our respective tastes are diametrically opposite. :tongue It seems like everything I love you hate and vice versa. If I just reverse your opinion every time, I'll know whether I'd like something. :tongue
 

Mr Flibble

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Hey well if you see me say I hate a book, at least you'll have a good idea you'll like it! ( I can't say I hated Locke though. I just thought it was okay, nothing super special like I'd run to my mates saying 'You have GOT to read this!' I did reccomend it to a friend who I thought would like it, because it's his kinda thing)

*looks out for Parametric posts of books she hates, so she can buy them* :D

At least I'm consistent. Sort of....
 

SPMiller

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I never said it was a good or even great book. I just said that it's the best I've read in years and that it kept me reading. What does that say about my fantasy reading selections?

/cry
 

Mr. Anonymous

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I liked the book but Jesus Christ did it draaaag (IMO.) If I remember correctly, it was about 800 or so pages. Lynch could've cut a quarter at least without hurting the plot. He just goes on lengthy tangents/descriptions which, while well written, really detract from the momentum and hamper the moment to moment pacing. Just my opinion.
 
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MattW

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I liked the book but Jesus Christ did it draaaag (IMO.) If I remember correctly, it was about 800 or so pages. Lynch could've cut a quarter at least without hurting the plot. He just goes on lengthy tangents/descriptions which, while well written, really detract from the momentum and hamper the moment to moment pacing. Just my opinion.
This might be a matter of comparison with other Big Fat Fantasy, but I found the size of LoLL to be manageable, and without much of the useless filler that takes up volumes in other series.
 

MattW

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Best fantasy novel I've read in about two years. Contrast with my rant on Perdido Street Station.
It is a very good book in my opinion,and while I bounced off of PSS, I sunk into Lynch's writing. I also found it to be much superior to some other caper/underworld fantasy.

Is it perfect? No. But I base my opinions on entertainment value and speed I read it at - it was fun, gripping, and I was left wanting another installment.
 

Mr. Anonymous

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This might be a matter of comparison with other Big Fat Fantasy, but I found the size of LoLL to be manageable, and without much of the useless filler that takes up volumes in other series.

To be honest, for an aspiring fantasy/sci fi/literary writer, I haven't read nearly as much fantasy as I probably should have. But in my opinion, the pacing in Abercrombie's The First Law Trilogy, Keyes's The Kingdoms of Thorne and Bone, and Martin's A song of Ice and Fire are all far superior. Don't get me wrong, I think Lynch is a very good writer. I just think he needs a much stricter editor.
 

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To be honest, for an aspiring fantasy/sci fi/literary writer, I haven't read nearly as much fantasy as I probably should have. But in my opinion, the pacing in Abercrombie's The First Law Trilogy, Keyes's The Kingdoms of Thorne and Bone, and Martin's A song of Ice and Fire are all far superior. Don't get me wrong, I think Lynch is a very good writer. I just think he needs a much stricter editor.

Martin is guilty of big books that can appear to drag because of the scope ans sheer size, but they are paced very well. Abercrombie is pretty sparse in his writing, and cuts to the chase faster because it's 3 books (or a sub-arc of 3 out of 8).

Lynch felt faster to me because it's pretty much a standalone novel, and almost everything was relevant to the plot at hand.
 
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Gary Clarke

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I must agree that I thought it dragged - but it's all a matter of taste because my hubs and the Bil cannot get enough of Scott Lynch's work!
 

Mr Flibble

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Lynch felt faster to me because it's pretty much a standalone novel, and almost everything was relevant to the plot at hand.

Wow, I was sat there wondering when the heck half of it was going to become relevant! Okay, maybe an exaggeration lol, but like I said teh constant flashbacks pulled me out of the story at hand, and even without them, it was..pedestrian and predictable ( always guaranteed to make it drag for me)

I'm not a huge fan of a Song of Ice and Fire ( I like the writing, but not what he's writing about) but the first at least was very well paced for such a large book. Abercrombie paces well too. This ( for me I hasten to add) doesn't.
I never said it was a good or even great book. I just said that it's the best I've read in years and that it kept me reading. What does that say about my fantasy reading selections?

/cry

There there dear, it'll be all right. If you just come and lie down here I can make it all better....:D
 

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Hahah I found it a really fast read, and I loved the flashbacks.

I finished reading and felt all depressed because I hadn't written it.

Guess it's a good thing that people publish a range of fantasy.

ETA: forgot to mention that I put off reading this book for SOOOO long because I *loathed* the title. I actually only ended up reading it because I got a copy second-hand for a good price. Afterwards I couldn't understand why they lumped the book with such an utterly off-putting title.

Also, I'm a massive Flashman fan, and Locke was rather Robin Hood meets Flashy, so that might have helped my enjoyment of it.
 
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Dawnstorm

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Lynch could've cut a quarter at least without hurting the plot.

I'd agree with that, but I wouldn't advise that strategy, as the "plot", IMO, is the weakest thing about the novel from the get-go. The best thing, to me, was the way the setting emerged through the telling of the story. The plot was little more than excuse for the "cool" of it.

Emphasising the plot would sink the book, IMO. It's good the way it is. Not perfect, but good enough.

The main thing about the plot wasn't so much the predictability for me, btw, it was an overdose of boy's-own-adventure.
 

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You are obviously the evil twin :D

Actually I like Flashy too, I just thought Locke was a rather pale imitation.


oh for sure - Flashman is in a league of his own.

And Locke was definitely a more likeable human being, and so probably made for a more palatable antihero for readers. I just found the book a fun read, so I'm not really getting the hate on people seem to have for it.

But hey, it's all good.

Straight after that I read Vellum, and I loved that too, so yeah...I just loved them for different things. So I'm glad there's variety in fantasy.
 

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Argh I missed a discussion of LoLL!

Has anybody read the sequel, Red Seas Under Red Skies? I loved it. Although TBH, I don't like Locke that much. He's just there to give Jean Tannen someone to look after. I LOVE Jean. I think he's a great character. A super fast deadly martial artist who's such a fatass that he can walk around with a pair of axes strapped to his back under his shirt without anyone noticing= :heart: I would not complain if he was the MC. I loved all the nautical adventures in RSURS, although I got really annoyed by all the explanations of nautical terms, as I already know them all. I like Lynch's writing in general because it's quite gross and gritty, and he loves to torture and kill off his major characters almost as much as GRRM. Also, it's so much fun to watch Locke get the crap knocked out of him repeatedly :D

On his site I read the first chapter of the 3rd book--it delved into Locke growing up as a Shades orphan and falling in love with the girl. I'm excited to read the rest when it comes out.
 

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Argh I missed a discussion of LoLL!

Has anybody read the sequel, Red Seas Under Red Skies? I loved it. Although TBH, I don't like Locke that much. He's just there to give Jean Tannen someone to look after. I LOVE Jean. I think he's a great character. A super fast deadly martial artist who's such a fatass that he can walk around with a pair of axes strapped to his back under his shirt without anyone noticing= :heart: I would not complain if he was the MC. I loved all the nautical adventures in RSURS, although I got really annoyed by all the explanations of nautical terms, as I already know them all. I like Lynch's writing in general because it's quite gross and gritty, and he loves to torture and kill off his major characters almost as much as GRRM. Also, it's so much fun to watch Locke get the crap knocked out of him repeatedly :D

On his site I read the first chapter of the 3rd book--it delved into Locke growing up as a Shades orphan and falling in love with the girl. I'm excited to read the rest when it comes out.


RSURS was not as great as LoLL, and I don't really have anything great to say about it. It was another caper story, but this time focused on the caper and not the underworld. Sure, a third of the book was travel to the pirate isle and back, but while fun things happened during the trip and introduced more of the world's mystery, I just couldn't bring myself to like RSURS as much as LoLL.

And I'm really curious as to your opinion of how Lynch isn't afraid to kill off MCs. He kills supporting characters, sure, but I will eat my hat if Locke or Jean bite the big one anytime before the last book or two of the Gentlemen Bastards arc. You can probably add Sabetha to the list of unkillables, since I hear she plays a much larger role in Republic of Thieves - of course, she could be affected by the 'Girlfriend Corollary" in which any female the MC has a thing for has a target painted on her forehead.

It's neat that you picture Jean that way, as I always saw him as a large guy, fit, but not fat. You know the type - those guys that look huge and may have that belly pudge, but you know could knock a hole in any wall you pointed to.
 

Kitty Pryde

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And I'm really curious as to your opinion of how Lynch isn't afraid to kill off MCs. He kills supporting characters, sure, but I will eat my hat if Locke or Jean bite the big one anytime before the last book or two of the Gentlemen Bastards arc. You can probably add Sabetha to the list of unkillables, since I hear she plays a much larger role in Republic of Thieves - of course, she could be affected by the 'Girlfriend Corollary" in which any female the MC has a thing for has a target painted on her forehead.

It's neat that you picture Jean that way, as I always saw him as a large guy, fit, but not fat. You know the type - those guys that look huge and may have that belly pudge, but you know could knock a hole in any wall you pointed to.

The characters that died at the end of LoLL (and could we please not name them as they are too spoilery) were DEFINITELY not redshirts. The audience was way too attached to them, and they were way too lovable. The character killed off in RSURS was pretty charming, too. He's more willing than most authors to let us get really attached to a major character and then off them spectacularly. I agree that L and J are not likely to die. Sabetha, well, i know it would be excellent drama to off her soon after Lock gets some kind of reunion with her.

Jean is supposed to be 16 stone (224 lbs), and heavyset. I dunno how tall he is, other than taller than most people around him. Lynch often describes him as having a big belly, and in RSURS he keeps mentioning that Jean's getting to be not so fat with all the rowing and working on the ship and eating small rations. And again, we know he's fat enough to hide two axes under his shirt without anyone noticing. I pictured him as a stealthy ass-kicking fat guy a la Sammo Hung in the 80s, only taller :D
 

SPMiller

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I'll go ahead and disagree with that. They definitely were redshirts. Only Locke and Jean got any meaningful characterization.
 

Kitty Pryde

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I'll go ahead and disagree with that. They definitely were redshirts. Only Locke and Jean got any meaningful characterization.

Seriously? You could tell from the beginning that they were going to die and you didn't bother to become attached to them at all? You are a much more cleverer reader than I, then, cause I didn't see it coming at all and I was well shocked. Scott Lynch: hours of fun for the simple-minded reader! :D