The Role Of The Mentor Character

Elias Graves · Jan 6, 2010

Many "hero's journey" type stories utilize a mentor character to explain the gravity of the journey and they provide guidance to a hero who is largely or partially ignorant of circumstances.
I'd love to learn how you view this character's role. Furthermore I'd like to discuss differing treatments of the mentor.
Have you done something unexpected with a mentor? Any examples of unlikely or unwilling mentors?
These characters also have a predeliction for an early and painful exit from the story, presumably to allow the hero to finish the quest under his own power.
Can you think of examples where mentors hung around?
How about mentors who had the same goal as the hero but with a different motivation than the hero? Are there examples of mentors "using" heroes to ultimately gain their own goals?

EG

Kitty Pryde · Jan 6, 2010

The mentor tends to annoy me, because I often have the question, if he's so damn rad, why doesn't he go on the quest himself? Then you get into prophecies and destinies and other weak plot buttresses.

In my own writing, I tend to write mentors who aren't involved in the MC's conflict at all, or mentors who think the MC is a doofus and are only mentoring out of pity/absolute necessity/their own selfish goals.

khajidu · Jan 6, 2010

My (kinda) mentor is a sentient tall ship and is the one most concerned by what happens (he's one of the MCs), he needs the (human) other MC to free his family. In the meanwhile, he has to teach his co-MC about sailing, since this guy is not a sailor... but a musician.
Well, it looks like the mentor is using his mentee for his own purposes (that's technically the case), but the mentee is willing to help because he feels they wouldn't be many other solutions. And neither mentor nor mentee die.

Elias Graves · Jan 6, 2010

Interesting. I like the idea of the mentor considering the acolyte unworthy.
Perhaps the mentor knows he lacks some skill necessary to complete the journey?

Is there a reason you consider prophecy a weakness? Humans have used it for a while now.

EG

Kitty Pryde · Jan 6, 2010

Elias Graves said:
Interesting. I like the idea of the mentor considering the acolyte unworthy.
Perhaps the mentor knows he lacks some skill necessary to complete the journey?

Is there a reason you consider prophecy a weakness? Humans have used it for a while now.

EG

I don't like prophecy because, like I said, it's often used to prop up flimsy plot points. Why is a skinny dorkus who lives on a farm supposed to save the world? CAUSE IT'S A PROPHECY! Bring him along with all the badass warrior guys who are not saving the world, because they would be less interesting. Why Harry Potter and not one of the actual badass wizards? Cause it's a (self-fulfilling) prophecy! And because it would be less interesting. "The Prophecy said so!" is like fantasy novel code for "Cause it's more interesting this way!"

DeleyanLee · Jan 6, 2010

Elias Graves said:
Can you think of examples where mentors hung around?
How about mentors who had the same goal as the hero but with a different motivation than the hero? Are there examples of mentors "using" heroes to ultimately gain their own goals?

Ahz in the Myth series by Robert Lynn Asprin. Some classical comedic Fantasy right there. Had lots of fun with the entire Hero's Journey process.

Elias Graves · Jan 6, 2010

Thanks on all accounts.

Now you got me thinking prophecy though. D'oh!
What say you about a prophecy that says that something will occur without necessarily denoting a "chosen one?"

Not trying to derail my own thread here but it all ties together.
My story is religious in nature and prophecy kinda comes with the territory.

EG

Wavy_Blue · Jan 6, 2010

I've consciously been avoiding writing mentor characters into my fantasy WIP. I'd rather have my MCs out there in a dangerous environment figuring out what is going on for themselves rather than having it handed to them on the plate.

If you want to throw a twist on the mentor character, why not make him a miser who wants the MC to pay him a ton of money for his knowledge/teachings? If there's one thing that seems to always be consistent in a mentor character, its that it gives the hero his/her knowledge for free.

I think there are other ways to write the mentor character in an un-traditional way, but it might be easier (and more interesting) to just avoid it altogether.

Elias Graves · Jan 6, 2010

I'm still considering whether to use this type of character or not.
There are perhaps ways to introduce the knowledge he needs in other ways but that would require some serious rethinking of some plot lines. I'm not opposed to doing that is needed. I merely want things as tight as possible without too much cliche.

EG

Z0Marley · Jan 6, 2010

Have you done something unexpected with a mentor? Any examples of unlikely or unwilling mentors?

I have multiple mentors that all take other students on and not the MC. They help him through elementary learning, but after that -- they kind of feed him to the wolves.

These characters also have a predilection for an early and painful exit from the story, presumably to allow the hero to finish the quest under his own power.

Talk about one of my biggest pet peeves in the story. There are PLENTY of other ways to get the character out of the story other than just having him die. It just drives me crazy, usually I don't give a rats ass about this character. Most of the time they're flat and predictable. Now I have to go read 6,000 words about his death and how the hero must go on without him! Mentors don't bother me nearly as much as flat mentors that die.

Can you think of examples where mentors hung around?

I've seen a lady in her mid-thirties get pregnant and retire. Can't remember which book >.>?
I've seen lots that decide to take religious pilgrimages.
Other than that, not many have hung around or existed.

How about mentors who had the same goal as the hero but with a different motivation than the hero? Are there examples of mentors "using" heroes to ultimately gain their own goals?

I have this theme in my book. My mentor manipulates my character into believing he is the man of legend so he could gather dangerous information and report back to her.

Kitty Pryde · Jan 6, 2010

I think many prophecies are there to prop up flimsy plots, but definitely not all of them. Off the top of my head, a prophecy that the world is going to end is cool.

Z0Marley · Jan 6, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
I think many prophecies are there to prop up flimsy plots, but definitely not all of them. Off the top of my head, a prophecy that the world is going to end is cool.

You know, prophecies never bother me. I have more of a problem with people that KNOW so-n-so is the named person. If you look at any old legend or prophecy, they are very, very hard to decipher. There are lines that get lost, there are millions of people in the world that could be fit under the same description.

Elias Graves · Jan 6, 2010

Indeed. My prophecy is more of a cryptic instruction that leads to the antagonist's defeat. Its not so much that my protagonist is "chosen," merely that he is the one who solves the riddle of the prophecy.

EG

Khimera9 · Jan 6, 2010

I tend to use the mentor character in some of my fantasy works, but normally I keep their personality and other character points ahead of their teachings. For example, you can have a warrior having to lead a bloody newb through a battlefield and try to give him the pointers he need to survive.

SPMiller · Jan 6, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
In my own writing, I tend to write mentors who aren't involved in the MC's conflict at all, or mentors who think the MC is a doofus and are only mentoring out of pity/absolute necessity/their own selfish goals.

Yeah, these are the only mentor types I bother writing. All characters I write must have clear motivation, and the training a mentor could provide would be designed to meet the mentor's own goals.

Liosse de Velishaf · Jan 6, 2010

I'm all for self-serving mentors, if you really must insist on using one. I can’t stand mentors who only exist to help out the hero and provide death angst.

I have yet to use an actual mentor in my fantasy, although my NaNo story might end up with a semi-mentor.

My favorite reason for skipping mentors is that it’s a lot easier for the MC(s) to fuck things up without them. No pain, no gain, as they say.

Elias Graves · Jan 6, 2010

SPMiller said:
Yeah, these are the only mentor types I bother writing. All characters I write must have clear motivation, and the training a mentor could provide would be designed to meet the mentor's own goals.

You stated well what I believe is the balance point of this discussion. This mentor character often appears with no obvious motivation to exist other than, as stated earlier, to plug a hole in a plot. Mentors show up out of thin air and offer the protagonist a wealth of information and assistance to find the only compensation is a violent death.
I don't know a single HR officer straining the yoke to try to fill that job description.

The mentor I'm building is one who has his own motivation in the story. He has a stake in the outcome. Both the protagonist and the mentor desire the destruction of the antagonist. That the mentor needs to "use" the protagonist to complete his goal is coincidental. The protagonist offers skills needed to finish the job.
In reality, the story is much more about the mentor, however, the only section of the story I tell directly is the climactic episode. The rest of the story, while intriguing, isn't compelling fiction. I will reveal as much of the back story as needed throughout.

EG

evol_reed · Jan 6, 2010

Have you done something unexpected with a mentor?

Well, first off I didn't make my mentor character an old man. It was very hard to avoid all the cliches for this type of character, but I tried my valiant best. I made him a rather ordinary-looking fellow with an annoyingly cheerful demeanor.

I didn't kill him off. Rather he takes off mysteriously and returns to reveal something massive about himself in Book Two.

I tried to avoid having a mentor character at all but there was no way my characters could figure out what was going on much less what to do next without a handy dandy mentor figure.

Mr Flibble · Jan 6, 2010

to find the only compensation is a violent death.

I made that what the mentor wanted....

efkelley · Jan 6, 2010

The Belgariad springs to mind. This link is just to books 1 through 3. There are 2 more in the volume.

Warning: There's prophecy here. The good part is that the prophecy is disposed of in the prologue. He pretty much tells you exactly what's going to happen. The path to that end and the characters involved are the reason to read it.

badducky · Jan 6, 2010

I think this post is required reading for anyone about to attempt a good mentor figure, to prevent dating your work once some bad ideas leave the mental landscapes of the culture:

http://macallisterstone.blogspot.com/2007/08/magical-negroes-expendable-queers-and.html

Canotila · Jan 6, 2010

My MC doesn't have a mentor. She makes some friends and gleans things from them, but none of them is any radder than the other.

I didn't plan it that way (never think that far ahead, ha ha). Just something I noticed after reading this thread.

third person · Jan 7, 2010

my favorite mentors are the anitihero types of ambiguous moral character, like Vergere and Kreia from the Star Wars EU. they don't force the character to be goody-goody, they just teach them to weigh the consequences of the actions they take, good or bad.

Elias Graves · Jan 7, 2010

badducky said:
I think this post is required reading for anyone about to attempt a good mentor figure, to prevent dating your work once some bad ideas leave the mental landscapes of the culture:

http://macallisterstone.blogspot.com/2007/08/magical-negroes-expendable-queers-and.html

Interesting.

EG

SPMiller · Jan 7, 2010

Even more interesting is this index: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RaceTropes

Start reading.

The Role Of The Mentor Character

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