Is first/ 3rd and 1st/omni the same thing?

barbilarry · Jan 2, 2010

I know I just asked a question on here the other day. Now this one has come up. I have no clear Idea which I am writing in. However I do know I ame writing in past tense. (at least I know that)

If this is 1st/omni, and in past tense. Can more than one character's thought be in a scene, as long as it is not in the same scene with the main POV character.

In other words. Can I show another character's POV, as long as there is a scene break?

What confuses me is I thought that if it is written in first, then I would always have to stay in that person's head only? Does this make sense?

dawinsor · Jan 2, 2010

If you're using "I" to give the character's POV, then that's first person. You can have multiple first person POVs, if you keep one to a scene. You need to make them sound different then, but it's certainly possible.

If you're using "he" or "she" to tell your story, then you could be in third limited or third omni. Third limited is much like first. You keep to what a single character can see and know. You report their thoughts and no one else's, usually until you switch scenes. Third omni is more distant. Often there's a separate narrative voice (like Lemony Snickett) that tells the story and dips in and out of different characters' thoughts.

Sometimes writers write one scene in first and another scene in third. That can work too.

Cyia · Jan 2, 2010

barbilarry said:
If this is 1st/omni, and in past tense

You can't have 1st AND omni. Even if the person narrating can read minds, they're not doing it all the time.

1st POV -- exclusively from the POV of a single person "I, me, mine".

3rd close -- like a camera focused from one person's POV. Still close in on their experiences and thoughts, it can't skip from head to head or thought to thought among other characters. "He, she, their"

3rd omni -- an outside and all knowing narrator who knows the story beginning to end from the start. He knows what's going on in every mind and the motivation behind every action. He knows where the monsters are hiding before they jump out of the closets, and the reader depends on them to release the information when needed. "He, she, their" but with a distance tone to it.

Manuel Royal · Jan 2, 2010

And just to make it more complicated, third person omniscient may or may not include characters' thoughts.

If the POV can go anywhere, but only shows us what people say and do, not what their thoughts and feelings are, it's third person objective omniscient.

If the POV can go anywhere, show us what's there, and also get into people's heads, it's third person subjective omniscient.

Likewise, if the POV stays with one person ("he" or "she"), it may or may not tell us what's in her head: third person subjective limited, or third person objective limited, respectively. (And that second one is a challenge; you'd have to make the character somebody the reader can identify with in some way, without us ever knowing her thoughts and feelings directly.)

First person ("I did this") is pretty much always subjective (and limited).

barbilarry · Jan 2, 2010

Whew! I think I understand. Thank you all for your wonderful help. It is much appreciated and very helpful. I shall print it out.

Hugs,
J

Lady Ice · Jan 2, 2010

1st and omni are mutually exclusive. 1st POV is the thoughts and experiences of one character; they cannot tell us the thoughts and experiences of the others except in hearsay and guesswork.
3rd omni is basically you the writer telling us what these characters think or do. If that narrative looks inside people's heads, it is subjective. If it only tells us the action and events, it's third person objective. Which one you choose depends on how strong you want the narrative voice to be. If it's a thriller or plot-driven book, you might want an inconspicuous narrative voice; if it's about a host of characters and their thoughts (such as in Dickens) your narrator will be subjective.

barbilarry · Jan 2, 2010

I just want to have three povs in this one. Male, female and therapist.
Thank you for the help.

bearilou · Jan 2, 2010

Manuel Royal said:
And just to make it more complicated, third person omniscient may or may not include characters' thoughts.

If the POV can go anywhere, but only shows us what people say and do, not what their thoughts and feelings are, it's third person objective omniscient.

If the POV can go anywhere, show us what's there, and also get into people's heads, it's third person subjective omniscient.

Likewise, if the POV stays with one person ("he" or "she"), it may or may not tell us what's in her head: third person subjective limited, or third person objective limited, respectively. (And that second one is a challenge; you'd have to make the character somebody the reader can identify with in some way, without us ever knowing her thoughts and feelings directly.)

First person ("I did this") is pretty much always subjective (and limited).

I always wondered the difference between the subjective and objective. Now I know!

Jamesaritchie · Jan 2, 2010

First and omniscient are not mutually exclusive, but it does mean your narrator must have God-like powers. Whether first person of third, an omnisceint narrator is, in essence, a single narrator/being/presence, however you want to look at it, who has the power to know all and see all.

Personifying this narrator into a first person being is not a difficult problem to overcome. God, of course, would make the perfect first person omni narrator, but so would a sufficiently advanced alien, for instance. Someone like Q on Star Trek The Next Generation.

barbilarry · Jan 2, 2010

Thank you guys for all the great advice much appreciated.

Is first/ 3rd and 1st/omni the same thing?

barbilarry

I just wanna write

dawinsor

Dorothy A. Winsor

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Manuel Royal

barbilarry

I just wanna write

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

barbilarry

I just wanna write

bearilou

DenturePunk writer

Jamesaritchie

barbilarry

I just wanna write