Disaster/Setback in the Action Scene (Swain/Bickham Method)

andrewwinters · Dec 25, 2009

Dear Group,

I've read more than a few "how to" books and I've noticed that the Dwight Swain/Jack Bickham method calls for alternating scenes and sequels (sometimes called action scenes and reaction scenes). Using this method, in the scene (action scene), the following structure is mandatory:

1. Goal
2. Conflict
3. Disaster/Setback/Catastrophe

#1 and #2 I get and as I read commercial fiction I can see conflict in 90% of what I read. My question relates to #3. First, I don't generally see this in the commercial fiction I see, or if I do, it's far from obvious. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. I have yet to read a novel where I can see this structure in every scene consistently, throughout. Are there examples of authors/novels that strictly follow the Swain/Bickham method?

Second, in plotting my story, I have a hard time making every scene end in a setback for the lead character. Sometimes, to move the plot along, good things have to happen to the lead character. For example, say my lead character is in prison and I want him out of prison. How do I do this in a scene and still have a setback. It's hard to call getting out of prison a setback. Is the answer that I use summary/narrative to get him out of prison? Or do I amend the plot so he doesn't get out of prison or was never in prison?

Or am I putting too much weight on one system. I'm the type of person who likes to work within a strict structure when I'm learning something and only after I gain a certain level of skill do I feel comfortable varying.

Many thanks in advance!

Maxinquaye · Dec 25, 2009

There are five possible answers to the scene question in Dwain's method:

No
No, and furthermore
No, but
Yes, but
Yes

The first four are possible, unless the novel ends - and then the fifth answer is possible. Sometimes the POV char should succeed in getting deeper into trouble. So, the MC spends a lot of effort getting a ticket to the Superbowl. Oh, he succeeds, but... it is a fake black market ticket.

I think the Disaster/Setback/Catastrophe-thingie is the worst named term in the fictional toolbox. Think of the goal as an implied scene question. You have an MC wanting a glass of milk, he's really thirsty. The implied scene question is then 'Will the MC get the glass of milk?'

It seems silly to deny the MC the glass of milk, doesn't it? So, you can have a resolution where the MC does get it. BUT, there's a but at the end of the question. He gets the glass of milk, but it tastes funny. Quick bad example, I know.

You can have success, if the success means the character goes deeper into the main problem of the entire novel.

painkillers · Dec 27, 2009

Protagonist is in prison. He gets out...but...
1) his lover has moved in with somebody else.
2) he now owes a favour to the big bad crime-boss that sorted out his release through nefarious means.
3) everybody thinks he is guilty anyway, and some of them want retribution.
4) the goverment now want him to do them a little favour (similar to 2. but that's politics for you)
5) he is now an addict.
6) he is still and ex-con and finding work will be harder because of it.

Mind you, I ain't a fan of slavishly following systems, but I do kinda see your point with finding out how they work before you start messing with them. I'm having the same trouble with the snowflake method at the moment. Stuck on step 5 'write up character descriptions'. I prefer to let the characters make themselves up as they go along. Still I'm persevering for more or less the same reason as you; another tool for the tool chest, but i need to know how it works first.

cbenoi1 · Dec 27, 2009

> Sometimes, to move the plot along, good things
> have to happen to the lead character.

Some people are lucky. It just happens. A new clue popped up which leads the character to re-evaluate the situation (sequel) and come up with a new goal.

> It's hard to call getting out of prison a setback.

It depends on what the original goal was. Not getting caught while stealing a car is a goal, and getting in prison is the disaster. In that context, merely getting out is a sequel to that (the character goes home and thinks of the next step). If breaking out of prison is the goal, then the disaster is what happens when the alarm is sounded.

> How do I do this in a scene and still have a setback.

Just 'getting out of prison' without any other form of conflict is as boring as getting a sandwich. Goal: feed. Action: get sandwich. Disaster: none; sandwich eaten; hunger gone. A boring MRU is a good candidate for compression with telling or for editing out completely. "John got out of prison on a rainy July afternoon. The pocket change Warden Jackson gave him barely paid for the taxi ride home. Upon entering his appartment, John found ... "

-cb

ishtar'sgate · Dec 27, 2009

andrewwinters said:
Or am I putting too much weight on one system.

Probably. Just because you like to write with structure doesn't mean you have to adopt someone else's structural system. Lately I've read debut novels that I could easily identify as adhering to specific systems. They are so obvious that the story line often feels forced.

Bufty · Dec 28, 2009

If you don't see 3 in the stories you read then either you are skimming them or the stories can't be very interesting because the disaster/setback/catastrophe or hurdles or obstacles or whatever you wish to call them that are put in the way of the protagonist achieving his goal are the things that drive the story forward.

Think about it - no obstacles - no story.

The Bickham method is a basic and good guide. But concentrate on letting your characters lead you rather than trying to slavishly follow a set pattern or system - that is dull and will drive you nuts.

There is no magic lantern solution to writing a novel. Just do it. For crying out loud, if you can string words together in cohesive sentences you can write. The rest is imagination and sweat.

Writing is meant to be fun - put the fun back into it by letting your imagination and characters take you somewhere. Keep throwing obstacles in your character's path - let your imagination go, and keep asking yourself - What if...?

More helpful advice - read more novels.

Welcome and good luck. :Hug2:

andrewwinters said:
Dear Group,

I've read more than a few "how to" books and I've noticed that the Dwight Swain/Jack Bickham method calls for alternating scenes and sequels (sometimes called action scenes and reaction scenes). Using this method, in the scene (action scene), the following structure is mandatory:

1. Goal
2. Conflict
3. Disaster/Setback/Catastrophe

#1 and #2 I get and as I read commercial fiction I can see conflict in 90% of what I read. My question relates to #3. First, I don't generally see this in the commercial fiction I see, or if I do, it's far from obvious. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. I have yet to read a novel where I can see this structure in every scene consistently, throughout. Are there examples of authors/novels that strictly follow the Swain/Bickham method?

Second, in plotting my story, I have a hard time making every scene end in a setback for the lead character. Sometimes, to move the plot along, good things have to happen to the lead character. For example, say my lead character is in prison and I want him out of prison. How do I do this in a scene and still have a setback. It's hard to call getting out of prison a setback. Is the answer that I use summary/narrative to get him out of prison? Or do I amend the plot so he doesn't get out of prison or was never in prison?

Or am I putting too much weight on one system. I'm the type of person who likes to work within a strict structure when I'm learning something and only after I gain a certain level of skill do I feel comfortable varying.

Many thanks in advance!

painkillers · Dec 28, 2009

Always remember to torture your protagonist. I actually learned the functionality of that during nano this year. I was about to let my protagonist off the hook, but it didn't feel right. Then another writer, who had read an excerpt where my protagonist was in a bad way, pmed those words. I scrubbed the letting off the hook scene and dropped my protagonist into serious trouble. The rest of the story pretty much wrote itself.

Disaster/Setback in the Action Scene (Swain/Bickham Method)

andrewwinters

Maxinquaye

That cheeky buggerer

painkillers

Learning by doing

cbenoi1

ishtar'sgate

living in the past

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

painkillers

Learning by doing