Market for thrillers

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Eddyz Aquila

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I was looking lately on a catalogue from one of the big publishers from Romania, and I was surprised when I saw the huge list of titles that were filed under "Thrillers" which leads me to this question:

Isn't the market for thrillers oversaturated?

It's a genre that will always attract readers, but with so many thrillers around, I was wondering if agents are turning down thrillers, even if they are good...
 

Missus Akasha

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A lot of genre markets are oversaturated nowadays. Normally a market comes overflowed with books when publishers are trying to throw in a book to get their share of the popularity of that genre.

I don't think there will be a slow-down period for thrillers being released anytime soon though the economy might have an effect on sales of them.
 

Joe Moore

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Thrillers sell well in international markets because they usually deal with global themes and settings as opposed to romance, suspense and other localized genre. My Romanian publisher (Editura Universitara) is always looking for more thrillers.
 
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BrokenSword

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an ever growing saturation

The one market that isn't oversaturated is "well-written books."



And the one market that is ever shrinking, is the one for well versed readers.



The one site/forum where I routinely can expect competence (well, let's say over 90% to cover those gaffs to which I'm not privy) is AW, relative to well written threads.

The rate at which other sites not only allow such lousy communication but actually defend it, is astounding. And as I've been noting for the past decade or so, it seems literature is dumbing itself down (at the mass market level, especially) to the point that if you don't use the most simplistic of words, you've failed as a writer to 'do your job'. Plain is fine, banal is not, imho. I suppose 'plain' is a standard that changes from one generation to the next, but in my lifetime, the level of 'well written literature' has mirrored a society which is more than lazy (I'm speaking as a whole and aiming my comments at the American Culture as that is the only one with which I have experience).

Money rules and that's the aim of the vast majority. If writers kept a higher standard, they'd be out of audiences and out of opportunities. And I'm sure most writers/publishers are catering to what the culture wants. Communication is central to the issue, but at the cost of bringing literature down to the least common denominator? Judging literature from the writers/stories I read 40 years ago against what is commercially available now, I don't see an upward trend. And I think that's my point and quite probably, a minority/personal opinion.

Which makes none of this 'bad', but rather, as opportunities missed.

Jmho.
 

Eddyz Aquila

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I can't speak for those written 10-15 years ago, regarding mass market books, but in the past 5 years I do agree with what BrokenSword has written - the quality of books is going down.

I'm taking the example of one of my favourite authors - Clive Cussler. Brainless entertainment, I must add, but lately his books have seen a serious drop in quality and are nothing more than carbon copies of old books but with new themes and subjects.
 

ChristineR

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Every generation thinks that things were better when they were young. I think the real answer is that everyone has already forgotten the marginal fluff of decades past and what's remembered is only the best. If you want to compare today's literature to that of forty or fifteen years ago, you should look at the former bestsellers that are long out of print and not even read for laughs anymore.
 

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disagree

Christine,

I'm sure there's going to be chaff in any era, that's not to which I refer. I tend to see words as jewels to be seen and used. When I say books are being less well written, it includes this idea. When I hear readers won't go to the dictionary to look up a word that was used in the days I started reading, it means the audience is missing an opportunity. I see a dumbing down of storytelling because the audiences don't want to put in any effort whatsoever (okay, I'm being a bit facetious) because learning something new is no longer on a list of 'gotta haves'. I didn't exactly like the spelling tests in school when I was growing up but if I'd not have been asked to learn new words, I'd never now know a richer way to express myself and in turn, have expression in like terms toward me. THAT is the opportunity I think is being missed. If I judge a book's value strictly on the story, I think I'm missing out on that nuance of which I speak. There's more to a story than just the plot and for me at least, the ability of the writer influences the depth of said story.

I think that in story telling, you'll always have those great/good ones and the chaff we referred to above. But, it is in the expression that I'm making my argument. As I read in another thread; it doesn't matter how many syllables (or I might say too, how many more unusual words in a sentence/paragraph) the word has, it only matters if it conveys the idea. Simple can be fine. I think complex is fine as well. But I don't want to read simple diction just like I don't want to read simple storylines for any length of time. I find writers that know their vocabulary and can use it, along with simple diction too, are the best reads. But in my opinion, the readers want MTV like entertainment with as little personal effort as possible because they don't see such effort as worth their while. THAT is what is missing, imo, and so we have a society (American) that wants visual titillation at the expense of the intellectual variety, they want more feelings and less mind. All in my opinion, of course, because I think you need both.

The penchant is for less, and that is what I'm seeing. And from the books I ever read and bought, I still know those which were chaff and those which were less so. I've ditched very few books from that era, but compared to the books of today, I'd have to say the majority are not 'keepers'. It is only by comparing the books I used to read with today's offerings, that I find there's a difference. And it's not a good difference.

Ymmv

btw, I'm not speaking of books I read before I was aware enough to know good writing from bad; I'm speaking of books I can remember reading that were mainstream novels in the same way I'd go and rifle through a shelf at the bookstore today. So, I'm not one of the 'good ol' days' types. I'm speaking more about the audience than the writer/novel, but I'd say art is following culture in this case and the culture is lacking, imo.
 
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narnia

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I was looking lately on a catalogue from one of the big publishers from Romania, and I was surprised when I saw the huge list of titles that were filed under "Thrillers" which leads me to this question:

Isn't the market for thrillers oversaturated?

It's a genre that will always attract readers, but with so many thrillers around, I was wondering if agents are turning down thrillers, even if they are good...

Check out http://www.thrillerwriters.org/.
 

ToddWBush

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I'm taking the example of one of my favourite authors - Clive Cussler. Brainless entertainment, I must add, but lately his books have seen a serious drop in quality and are nothing more than carbon copies of old books but with new themes and subjects.

That's because Clive stopped writing them years ago. His son, Dirk Cussler, now writes his main series, and other people (including former best-selling writer Jack du Brul) are writing the various other series with Cussler's name on them. I think Clive is in his mid 80's now, and his health doesn't allow him to write the books. Which is why the quality is in the toilet.
 

gothicangel

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RE:OP

When I was subbing my thriller back in 2004, one agent rejected me on the basis the industry was saturated. Lucky for her as the books was crap!

I have to say that I find the quality in crime fiction has plunged. There seems to be a lot of psychopaths running around out there. What ever happened to bumping off Aunt Mabel so you can inherit her wealth?

I've learnt to seek out the better written books. I'm currently working through David Peace's Red Riding Quartet, and bought Ian Rankin's new book.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I was looking lately on a catalogue from one of the big publishers from Romania, and I was surprised when I saw the huge list of titles that were filed under "Thrillers" which leads me to this question:

Isn't the market for thrillers oversaturated?

It's a genre that will always attract readers, but with so many thrillers around, I was wondering if agents are turning down thrillers, even if they are good...

The second largest group of books out there, by a very wide margin, is mystery, coming right behind category romance, and thrillers fall under the mystery unbrella. There's such a demand for the various forms of mystery/crime/thriller novels that saturating the maret is not easy.
 

Eddyz Aquila

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That's because Clive stopped writing them years ago. His son, Dirk Cussler, now writes his main series, and other people (including former best-selling writer Jack du Brul) are writing the various other series with Cussler's name on them. I think Clive is in his mid 80's now, and his health doesn't allow him to write the books. Which is why the quality is in the toilet.

Ohhh, so that's the thing. I wondered why the Dirk Pitt adventures are now so damn boring it's no even funny.

The only one still worth reading is the Oregon Files.
 

Joe Moore

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I think Clive is in his mid 80's now, and his health doesn't allow him to write the books. Which is why the quality is in the toilet.
Cussler is still heavily involved in the writing of his thrillers although he does use co-authors including his son. He concepts each story and produces an extensive outline. The co-author then builds the first draft off the outline while brainstorming critical story points with Cussler. Cussler finishes the draft into a final finished manuscript.

Although you might feel that the quality of writing is not what you would like, millions of readers disagree as each new Cussler novel consistently debuts in the top ten on bestseller lists worldwide.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Christine,

I'm sure there's going to be chaff in any era, that's not to which I refer. I tend to see words as jewels to be seen and used. When I say books are being less well written, it includes this idea. When I hear readers won't go to the dictionary to look up a word that was used in the days I started reading, it means the audience is missing an opportunity. I see a dumbing down of storytelling because the audiences don't want to put in any effort whatsoever (okay, I'm being a bit facetious) because learning something new is no longer on a list of 'gotta haves'. I didn't exactly like the spelling tests in school when I was growing up but if I'd not have been asked to learn new words, I'd never now know a richer way to express myself and in turn, have expression in like terms toward me. THAT is the opportunity I think is being missed. If I judge a book's value strictly on the story, I think I'm missing out on that nuance of which I speak. There's more to a story than just the plot and for me at least, the ability of the writer influences the depth of said story.

I think that in story telling, you'll always have those great/good ones and the chaff we referred to above. But, it is in the expression that I'm making my argument. As I read in another thread; it doesn't matter how many syllables (or I might say too, how many more unusual words in a sentence/paragraph) the word has, it only matters if it conveys the idea. Simple can be fine. I think complex is fine as well. But I don't want to read simple diction just like I don't want to read simple storylines for any length of time. I find writers that know their vocabulary and can use it, along with simple diction too, are the best reads. But in my opinion, the readers want MTV like entertainment with as little personal effort as possible because they don't see such effort as worth their while. THAT is what is missing, imo, and so we have a society (American) that wants visual titillation at the expense of the intellectual variety, they want more feelings and less mind. All in my opinion, of course, because I think you need both.

The penchant is for less, and that is what I'm seeing. And from the books I ever read and bought, I still know those which were chaff and those which were less so. I've ditched very few books from that era, but compared to the books of today, I'd have to say the majority are not 'keepers'. It is only by comparing the books I used to read with today's offerings, that I find there's a difference. And it's not a good difference.

Ymmv

btw, I'm not speaking of books I read before I was aware enough to know good writing from bad; I'm speaking of books I can remember reading that were mainstream novels in the same way I'd go and rifle through a shelf at the bookstore today. So, I'm not one of the 'good ol' days' types. I'm speaking more about the audience than the writer/novel, but I'd say art is following culture in this case and the culture is lacking, imo.


I don't know. I'm an old reader, I've never watched MTV in my life, and I sometimes think I've read nearly every book the eighteenth and nineteeth centuries have to offer, certainly just about all teh well-known ones, and I think good writers have always kept it as simple as possible.

Then again, I don't read fiction to learn new words, and I don't want to be pulled out of a story because I need to look up a word in a dictionary.

But I also believe the majority of books written in any century, or any decade within any century, are going to vanish without a trace.

And I know I have a much easier time finding books I love to read now than I did in the sixties, seventies, and eighties. Nothing is being dumbed down that I can see. Kept simple, yes, just as good, lasting writers have always done, but not dumbed down.

Maybe it's just my personal taste in books, but I think the world is filled with good writers and good novels today, and I find so many good books that I have stacks and stacks of books that I'll never get to because I find so few to discard.

Then again, I've always thought that too much complaxity was a sign the writer wasn't smart enough to keep it simple, rather than a sign of intellect.

Whatever the case or cause, just my taste or not, I love many, many writers of today, and for me, there's a surplus of great reading out there. So much so that I can't begin to keep up with the production of all the writers I know I love reading, let alone all the new, and often very good, writers coming into the game each year.
 

narnia

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Cussler is still heavily involved in the writing of his thrillers although he does use co-authors including his son. He concepts each story and produces an extensive outline. The co-author then builds the first draft off the outline while brainstorming critical story points with Cussler. Cussler finishes the draft into a final finished manuscript.

Although you might feel that the quality of writing is not what you would like, millions of readers disagree as each new Cussler novel consistently debuts in the top ten on bestseller lists worldwide.

I believe Mr. Cussler was recently married as well, so he is still going strong. ;) I have also had the pleasure of meeting him and listening to him talk on multiple occasions, most recently this past summer when he was again attending ThrillerFest. If he has health problems it surely didn't show.

If you would like to check out mysteries as well as thrillers, a good starting point would be Mystery Writers of America (http://www.mysterywriters.org/). There is some cross-over between the memberships but you will find many mystery writers who do not belong to ITW and vice versa, which will hopefully expand your search.

Best of luck!
 

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narnia

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I hope you plan to attend ThrillerFest V in July. I'm not sure yet if Cussler will be there again, but our ThrillerMaster this year is Ken Follett. Here's some additional info: http://www.thrillerwriters.org/thrillerfest/special-guests.html

Oh my, it's THAT Joe Moore! :) I never made the connection! Truth be told, I actually know three guys with that name in my hometown. And yes, I will be there! I have not missed one since they relocated to NYC. ITW is a great organization!!!!

See you in July!

:Sun:
 
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