Question about physical altercation ~ woman hitting man

The Backward OX · Dec 25, 2009

Do you think it believable a tallish woman could flail her fists against a taller man’s collarbone or upper chest, but without her upper arms being held by the man? I need to have a female character do this, but without her being restrained in any way. The guy is just standing there. Someone IRL has told me it won’t work as a solo act. I can’t see why not myself, but perhaps I’m missing something. Would there be any nits about her stance that I could use to make it ring true? Please don’t suggest I try it at home and work it out for myself.

Thanks

Sox

EDIT: Maybe you could read my Post #24, for a better explanation of the above, and for context, before replying.

K. Taylor · Dec 25, 2009

Sure, it works...she just flails her arms/hands at his chest to not hit his face.

mariedees · Dec 25, 2009

Why is she flailing at his chest? Sorry but one of those things that sort of annoys me in romance -- when the woman flails her dainty fists against the man's chest without doing any real damage. Why is she hitting him without trying to hurt him? If she's in a position where she needs to hit him, then why not do so in an effective manner? Why flail? Punch, pound, kick, claw are all stronger actions for me.

para · Dec 25, 2009

I think he would restrain her. Why is she hitting him btw? This isn't some kind of domestic violence thing that wouldn't be ok the other way around is it?

The Backward OX · Dec 25, 2009

mariedees said:
Why is she flailing at his chest? Sorry but one of those things that sort of annoys me in romance -- when the woman flails her dainty fists against the man's chest without doing any real damage. Why is she hitting him without trying to hurt him? If she's in a position where she needs to hit him, then why not do so in an effective manner? Why flail? Punch, pound, kick, claw are all stronger actions for me.

I suppose this is the trouble with asking questions out of context, regarding narrative. All I wanted to know was would it be believable for the physical action to take place. The context is that her flailing fists would simply be an emotional reaction to him appearing to once more want to avoid hanging around to answer some questions she wants to put to him. She might as easily have said "Damn you. You never have time to talk," except that that woudn't allow the story to develop. And he is barely known to her. There is, up until now, no deep emotional link. The flailing fists are only the first step in a developing emotional bond. Does all that make a reply to my query easier?

The Backward OX · Dec 25, 2009

para said:
I think he would restrain her. Why is she hitting him btw? This isn't some kind of domestic violence thing that wouldn't be ok the other way around is it?

Eventually he is going to restrain her. See my previous reply.

veinglory · Dec 25, 2009

I don't see why ot would be physically impossible. But to me a physically violent hero or heroine is a turn off.

Smish · Dec 25, 2009

veinglory said:
I don't see why ot would be physically impossible. But to me a physically violent hero or heroine is a turn off.

Agreed.

Of course it's physically possible. But unless the "deep emotional bond" is hatred, I'm not getting it. However, I haven't read the book.

mariedees · Dec 25, 2009

The flailing fists are only the first step in a developing emotional bond. Does all that make a reply to my query easier

Of course it's possible. If someone stands still and doesn't stop her, she can flail away at anything. After all, there's nothing stopping her.

But I still run into a problem with the why. Even in context, I will run into a problem with the why. Like Emily, I have trouble with her responding violently when it's not needed. Now, if you place a heroine in danger and she needs to clobber someone to escape, I'm okay with her doing so, but I want her to do so effectively. But to senselessly flail at someone because he doesn't want to talk, well, it puts the heroine in an emotionally immature state. Which for female readers these days really can be a turn off.

veinglory · Dec 25, 2009

Agreed. If someone really needs hitting, she should just hit him--somewhere vulnerable. "Flailing" is up there with slapping the girl to calm her down. :/

The Backward OX · Dec 25, 2009

mariedees said:
to senselessly flail at someone because he doesn't want to talk, well, it puts the heroine in an emotionally immature state. Which for female readers these days really can be a turn off

That’s a valid point. Thank you. On the other hand, how do today’s heroines - and readers - express mild annoyance/frustration/disappointment?

AuburnAssassin · Dec 25, 2009

This isn't your story of course but I could see where he might let her hit him and not try to restrain her if he felt like he deserved a good smack. Say he'd been caught cheating and she was lashing out and he wanted her give it all she had to somehow assuage his guilty conscience. Kind of Hollywood cliche though.

Otherwise, she might jab at his chest with her finger as if to prod something out of him--it's physical but not necessarily violent.

The Backward OX · Dec 25, 2009

AuburnAssassin said:
Otherwise, she might jab at his chest with her finger as if to prod something out of him--it's physical but not necessarily violent.

This is good. I do need at least some degree of physical contact. I might be able to work with this. Thank you.

job · Dec 25, 2009

The Bawlin Sox said:
how do today’s heroines - and readers - express mild annoyance/frustration/disappointment?

Not so much by hitting people who are precluded by custom, courtesy and greater strength from hitting back.

If you are talking annoyance, and the heroine starts flailing about pounding on chests,
then this is not overwhelming emotion taking place.
It sounds like a 'girly-girl' acting out. Playing a game.

And the game would be, 'Slap in the Face', which is the game of:

'I'm cute when I'm angry.'
'You can't hit me back because I'm a girl.'
and the passive-aggressive . . . 'Oh, did I hurt you? So sorry."

Which is all very difficult to build into the heroine and still have her act like a heroine.

If you mainly want the physical contact between them, he can turn to go and she can grab his shirt to keep him there, listening.
The pointing finger, as Auburn Assassin says.
Or just getting close. Getting 'in his face' in an aggressive, confrontational manner so they're only inches apart.

Deb Kinnard · Dec 26, 2009

I'm with Jo -- I'd keep it verbal. I, too, am turned off by the rebonding-through-pounding-on-him type of thing. Though, I wonder if I'd tried it with True Love Who Wasn't #32, maybe he'd have gotten the message?

She can, however, be cutting and sarcastic out of her own pain, without being a turn off for me. Terms to fling at him such as "emotionally constipated" come to mind...

You could also try the following: write the scene in a different file with the hitting. Then rewrite it with verbal attack and counterattack, and see which one works best for YOU in the long-range context of your story.

shameless · Dec 26, 2009

Gotta agree with most of the comments. I don't like people getting physical. Well, at least not by slapping.

Confessing to my own sin here, but I slam doors when I'm major honked off. And when I can't physically lash out, I use biting sarcasm. Unfortunately, my husband is a black belt at sarcasm, so he usually wins. :tongue

The Backward OX · Dec 26, 2009

Thanks, everyone. Some good ideas there."Emotionally constipated" - I like it. Maybe I'll come up with something similar of my own.

roseangel · Dec 26, 2009

What you described sounds incredibly cheesy and cliche ridden.
Isn't there a better way to do it?

brainstorm77 · Dec 26, 2009

It often happens in romantic suspense. But yeah if it was between the MC's then it would also be a turn off for me. Is the guy one of the MC's or a villian?

The Backward OX · Dec 26, 2009

roseangel said:
What you described sounds incredibly cheesy and cliche ridden.

In what way?

The Backward OX · Dec 26, 2009

brainstorm77 said:
if it was between the MC's then it would also be a turn off for me.

As I said elsewhere I can see there's a problem with quoting a situation out of context. Perhaps there's a lesson in that.

Silver King · Dec 26, 2009

AuburnAssassin said:
This isn't your story of course but I could see where he might let her hit him and not try to restrain her if he felt like he deserved a good smack...

Nobody ever does this in real life. There's always a defensive reaction, either by moving away from the person to avoid the blows or by finding a means to stop the onslaught. More than likely, the person being assaulted will strike back with greater force to temper the abuse.

If you don't believe me, try raising your hands and flailing someone to see what happens. Afterward, when you are tending to your injuries, you can reveal that you were merely experimenting as research for your novel.

kaitie · Dec 26, 2009

The reaction definitely seems overblown for what you've said, as well. I'm just thinking aloud here, but if the main point is to have the two of them simply touch (I don't get why that's important, but I assume there's something important about it), I can think of two things that might work. One would be her pushing him, but I really am not that fond of it because all the people I've known who would do that are basically what the other people have said, emotionally immature people who react violently to situations that don't call for it.

Is it completely necessary for her to be the one doing the touching? Because the most obvious answer I can think of is her getting pissed, telling him to go frak himself and starting to turn away, and him touching her shoulder and saying, "Wait!" or something like that. You could still accomplish the touching, but without it being physically violent.

Why is the touching so important, btw? That might help with the answers. I completely agree with what everyone else has said. And I just can't possibly imagine someone reacting that strongly to someone they hardly know and have no deep emotional connection to. I'd have just said, "Screw him" and forgotten about him a long time ago if this was the case.

The Backward OX · Dec 26, 2009

Okay, you guys, context.

In the beginning these two people are strangers. She is unhappily married. He has just blown into town. He is attracted to her. He is a manipulator (don’t say characters shouldn’t play mind games, as the story ending hinges around this) and once they meet sets about making her want something only he can provide. To arouse her further, he makes it difficult for the two of them to have a lengthy conversation. Eventually she thinks she has him pinned down. It seems to her (not really so, it is a final ploy) that he is about to once more decamp. In frustration she begins flailing at him. Now we’re up to speed. I had intended that he grab her by the arms, and the frame then freezes, while they consider what happens next.

Btw, if you think it sounds corny or dated, that's okay, I'm writing for those readers who enjoy that type of stuff.

backslashbaby · Dec 27, 2009

I vote no flailing, too

Slamming things back into her purse that she dropped? Or nearly messing up the phone book trying to use it when she's so mad? I could see someone grabbing her arms to make her calm down then, with things being silly frustration and not near-battery

Question about physical altercation ~ woman hitting man

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