Hyphenation

kaitie · Dec 21, 2009

Alright, I'm about 90% certain the following phrase should be hyphenated:

"Well, I didn’t mean I want to sleep with her cute."

Due to my rather deep-seated dislike of hyphen's, I've just left it as is, but I'm pretty sure about this. Am I right, or is there another way that's considered acceptable?

ResearchGuy · Dec 21, 2009

kaitie said:
Alright, I'm about 90% certain the following phrase should be hyphenated:

"Well, I didn’t mean I want to sleep with her cute."

Due to my rather deep-seated dislike of hyphen's, I've just left it as is, but I'm pretty sure about this. Am I right, or is there another way that's considered acceptable?

All right, not alright.

As for the sentence -- it took me a while to figure out what it was supposed to mean. Yes, it needs hyphens or it makes no sense: "Well, I didn't mean I-want-to-sleep-with-her cute." Or, probably better, no hyphens, but put the phrase in quotation marks: "Well, I didn't mean 'I want to sleep with her' cute."

Also: the plural of hyphen is hyphens. (Don't insert an apostrophe to make a plural.)

--Ken

kaitie · Dec 21, 2009

Yup, that's what I thought in terms of the hyphens (sorry, I should have included the hyphenated version). I typically use quotes for things like that, but I was fairly certain it was actually grammatically incorrect to do so. At least, I remember getting fussed at in school for doing it.

Ehab.Ahmed · Dec 21, 2009

Without hyphens it's hard to get the meaning of the sentence. I actually thought you mistyped 'her', but after reading ResearchGuy's post, I understood what you meant.

kaitie · Dec 21, 2009

Haha, I knew it needed hyphens or quotes or something. I just wasn't sure if there was a legit way I could get around it and still make it make sense. I knew it was incorrect as was.

Sorry for not clarifying.

I actually have another one as well (again a hyphen question based around I don't like them and therefore tend to leave them off to be corrected later). What about things like "half an inch?" I know one-half would be, or half-inch would be, but when I looked up things like "half an inch" or half a foot" (which I thought would be hyphenated) it didn't look like they were. Hence I am now confusled.

Hey SWEET! I just realized that when I hyphenate words my word counter decides they're one instead of two! I just dropped a good 9 words.

Maybe I'll have to rethink this hatred of hyphens. When you write as long as I tend to, hyphens can be our friends!

Jamesaritchie · Dec 21, 2009

I have to admit, with or without hyphens, I have no idea what that sentence means.

kaitie · Dec 21, 2009

Lol, uh...I think it makes more sense in context (he calls someone cute, friend expresses disbelief, he says this, etc...) At least one would hope.

Ehab.Ahmed · Dec 21, 2009

Jamesaritchie said:
I have to admit, with or without hyphens, I have no idea what that sentence means.

Heehee, been there, my friend. I think the sentence is about someone -- I'm guessing a guy in his teens struck with a crush for a girl -- clarifying to another person that he harbors no ill feelings for the said girl.

"I like her, she's cute!," Guy said. "Oh, is it your little guy talking?," she teased. "Well, I don't mean I-want-to-sleep-with-her cute."

Just my interpertation of the sentence.

Kaitie, I think it should be "half an inch". You wouldn't say "pint-of-drink", would ya?

kaitie · Dec 21, 2009

Yup, nail on head. Actually...the pint comparison makes sense. I was thinking of it essentially the same way as a half-inch. Back when I was taught how to do hyphens (which I've always had a hard time with), my teacher used to say that if you read the words separately and they didn't make sense, you had to hyphenate it. Though half an inch isn't really the same. Then again...is half-inch one of those weird things that you only hyphenate when it comes before a noun? Sorta like the difference between saying, "He's three years old" versus "He's a three-year-old boy?"

Ugh! I just made my brain hurt. I have hereby inserted the necessary hyphens and declare that good enough for now. Have I ever mentioned how much I hate grammar? I tend to know how to use something, but the why eludes me completely (probably because I never learned it in school). Which means things like this when you need to know the why are difficult for me.

RevisionIsTheKey · Dec 21, 2009

kaitie said:
I actually have another one as well (again a hyphen question based around I don't like them and therefore tend to leave them off to be corrected later). What about things like "half an inch?" I know one-half would be, or half-inch would be, but when I looked up things like "half an inch" or half a foot" (which I thought would be hyphenated) it didn't look like they were. Hence I am now confusled.

When a compound modifier comes before the noun, it is most often hyphenated, as in "10-inch-thick panel." When it comes after the noun, the hyphens are left out: The panel was 10 inches thick. This is not a 100% rule, but it works in most cases.

For your example, we'd need to know if "half an inch" is modifying a noun or if it something like "half an inch long." There would be no hyphens in that case.

Ehab.Ahmed · Dec 21, 2009

I actually like the hyphenate-before-noun rule. See, I used it and it's quite useful.

Kaitie, I know what you mean. I'm just glad I didn't have to learn English the old fashion way -- learning grammar and all; after all, English has so many rules that it likes to break so very often.

On the other hand, I love the Japanese grammar so far. Recently, I found out where a common word came from, by grammar. It's "sumimasen". I wondered how I rarely hear the Japanese say it; that's when I wondered what it would be like if it was in plain form (since it ends in -masen) and guess what I got? Yup, "sumanai"! Now that I heard alot.

Of course, I could be delusional and the two words aren't really related that way, but hey, I got happy nevertheless.

blacbird · Dec 21, 2009

You start with: The example sentence is utter gibberish without hyphenation. I didn't have clue one what it meant.

So there's your answer.

caw

kaitie · Dec 21, 2009

Lol...I think it's funny because I knew outright that it was gibberish without.

I just didn't know if there was another option haha and had left it to deal with later (and it was later).

Grammar is a pain in the arse. I think all of it I have learned has come from foreign language study, and my colleagues get a bit frustrated sometimes when someone comes up to me and asks, for instance, "So I'm trying to determine if this is a transitive or intransitive verb" and I'm like, "A huh?" Then again, for the record I never get that right in either language.

Anyway, thanks for the advice guys, and problem has been solved.

I just wanted to double check and make sure what I thought I had to do to make it correct was...well, correct.

ResearchGuy · Dec 22, 2009

kaitie said:
. . . Grammar is a pain in the arse. I think all of it I have learned has come from foreign language study . . . .

It was only when I took Latin in jr. high that English grammar suddenly popped into focus for me. Oh THAT's what it is all about!

Eventually, with enough reading (hundreds and hundreds of well-written books and countless well-written articles and stories) and with enough writing and more writing and more writing, it becomes second-nature.

--Ken

Jamesaritchie · Dec 22, 2009

I'm not sure, but I think I understand it now, but still, with or without hyphens, I don't think I'd get it without someone explaining it to me.

Adagio · Dec 27, 2009

kaitie said:
Lol, uh...I think it makes more sense in context (he calls someone cute, friend expresses disbelief, he says this, etc...) At least one would hope.

Adagio, whispering: If he calls someone cute, then Cute shouldn't be capitalized? Or in italics? Or between " ... "?

And something else, unrelated to the thread: Kaitie, I clicked on the YouTube link from your sig, about Carl Sagan. Awesome! Thanks for sharing.

Chase · Dec 27, 2009

Adagio said:
Adagio, whispering: If he calls someone cute, then Cute shouldn't be capitalized? Or in italics?

No capitalization for cute. Same as "He called her skinny" or "He called her a redhead." No italics or quotations necessary, either.

Trust me, whisperer.

blacbird · Dec 28, 2009

Looking at the sentence again, I have to say I'm with JAR on this one. Even hyphenated, it just doesn't work for me. When I hit this kind of thing in my own writing, I take it as a sign from the gods that I just need to rewrite it.

caw

Adagio · Dec 28, 2009

Chase said:
No capitalization for cute. Same as "He called her skinny" or "He called her a redhead." No italics or quotations necessary, either.

Trust me, whisperer.

Oh ... OK, it was just a whisper!

Adagio

BenPanced · Dec 28, 2009

I read the first sentence and thought "sleep with her cute...what? Her cute what? What's cute?"

Lance_in_Shanghai · Dec 29, 2009

No clue what you mean by "Well, I didn’t mean I want to sleep with her cute." Also, "Well, I didn’t mean I-want-to-sleep-with-her cute" is odd. How many words can be combined to make an adjective? Ten? Fifty? Just revise it to "Well, I didn’t mean so cute I want to sleep with her." People speak rather strangely nowadays, such as "Well, hello!" If you don't hear it, you can't imagine whether they mean it as a greeting or as "Of course, you idiot!" It is only the inflection and the context that can possibly clear it up. Other than in reporting someone's words spoken precisely (however oddly), revise this to make it less of a burden to your readers.

Hyphenation

kaitie

With great power comes

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

kaitie

With great power comes

Ehab.Ahmed

Drifting Silently

kaitie

With great power comes

Jamesaritchie

kaitie

With great power comes

Ehab.Ahmed

Drifting Silently

kaitie

With great power comes

RevisionIsTheKey

Sigh...

Ehab.Ahmed

Drifting Silently

blacbird

kaitie

With great power comes

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

Jamesaritchie

Adagio

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

blacbird

Adagio

BenPanced

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Lance_in_Shanghai