World-Building in First Person

[J Forias]

In my current WIP, I'm making the classic mistake of trying to write something which is beyond my current talent set - a series of interwoven first person narratives that jump straight into the action. It's a fun mistake though and I hope that I can learn from the things I get wrong.

The narrative I'm working on at the moment starts in the middle of an attack on my narrator's village. My current uppermost problem is that my narrator will recognise almost all of the people fighting next to him, but I don't think it's going to sound natural for him to stop fighting to give us a backstory on each character. However, I want to establish an emotional connection to what he's fighting for...

There are different forms of first person narration and I'm going for what I think of as 'in the moment' narration, so it's not obvious that there's a narrator looking back making comments like, 'if I'd known then what I know now...' etc.

Anyway, what I'd like is advice. I'd like to post a paragraph and ask some general questions. 'Tolan' is the name of the race my narrator belongs to. Narrator is fighting in the dark with lots of smoke around.

As I wrenched the knife free, a shout of warning rang out from the Tolan fighting in front of me. In that first moment, as she bellowed my name, her face gained a clearer focus and I recognised her – Vanya, second daughter of Laela, married last spring in a bright blaze of ceremony – now with a gruesome gash bleeding down over her right eye. In the second moment, a desperate twist to my left was all that saved me from death, as a sword sliced toward me in the dark.


Question on extract:

Is it awkward? Does it maintain convincing POV?



General questions:



How do you get around the problem of world-building in first person POV?
How do you get the details out that your character obviously knows, but isn't likely in a convincing inner monologue to go rambling on about?
If a new character appears in the middle of the first person POV, does the narrator stop to explain who they are or do you let the reader figure it out gradually?
Do any of these questions make the slightest sense?


Many thanks!


Edit: Oh, and if there's a rule against posting a paragraph off your own writing in the non-share-your-work parts, someone kick me quick and I'll take it down.

[Cyia]

You might get more help in The Sandbox or SYW, but I'll give it a shot.



The narrative I'm working on at the moment starts in the middle of an attack on my narrator's village. My current uppermost problem is that my narrator will recognise almost all of the people fighting next to him, but I don't think it's going to sound natural for him to stop fighting to give us a backstory on each character. However, I want to establish an emotional connection to what he's fighting for...

You have a whole book to flesh out the characters and detail the full struggle. If the fight is in the moment, then the narration should be what your MC is thinking about at that precise moment.


As I wrenched the knife free, a shout of warning rang out from the Tolan fighting in front of me.<--- This is odd if your MC is a Tolan. To identify her by race implies that she's not of the same race as the person talking. In that first moment, as she bellowed my name, <-- awkward phrase stringher face gained a clearer focus <--- your MC gains focus, her face doesn't (unless she was actually out of phase somehow) and I recognised her – Vanya, second daughter of Laela, married last spring in a bright blaze of ceremony – now with a gruesome gash bleeding down over her right eye. <--- a bit long, but I like the description. Maybe you could break it up a bit with her name and "second daughter" in one sentence, followed by the mention of her wedding juxtaposed with the blood.In the second moment, a desperate twist to my left was all that saved me from death, as a sword sliced toward me in the dark. <--- how can he see the sword in the dark? Was there some indication of danger that made him twist? Maybe a facial clue given by Vanya?


Question on extract:

Is it awkward? Does it maintain convincing POV?

POV works for me.

General questions:



How do you get around the problem of world-building in first person POV? You have your character move through the world organically.
How do you get the details out that your character obviously knows, but isn't likely in a convincing inner monologue to go rambling on about? Like what?
If a new character appears in the middle of the first person POV, does the narrator stop to explain who they are or do you let the reader figure it out gradually? If they're important enough to mention, then there's probably some context to them.
Do any of these questions make the slightest sense.

Yes.

[Etola]

Interesting questions. For my part, I actually enjoyed that paragraph and don't think it was too much of a flow break. Though, IMHO, if you replace "Vanya, second daughter of Laela" with "Vanya daughter of Laela" it would flow even more smoothly.

I think the trick is to bring in only the briefest and important details, and to make them relevant to the situation at hand. I think it is a very telling image that in the moment he sees Vanya bleeding, he remembers that only a short while ago she was a bride in a beautiful ceremony. Those images have a strong and telling contrast. But this is not the place to mention where she loves eating humberries, unless they're fighting in, and trampling, her beloved humberry fields.

The hard truth is that most of the details you probably want to put in should stay out, especially if you start in the middle of an action sequence. Try picking out two or three of your narrator's companions in this battle, and figure out maybe one detail each about them that might pop into the narrator's head during a rushed battle, and that would be relevant to the emotional impact you're going for. For example, the jovial smith who is now forced to put all his well-made weapons to use, or the gawky boy forced to fight out of necessity though he hasn't yet reached manhood.

And if the full scope of what they're fighting for isn't apparent immediately, don't worry. Just make sure it comes up as soon as the fighting is over.

In a general sense, worldbuilding while in first-person perspective in a fantasy novel should work the same as setting a scene in a novel set in contemporary reality. Only bring up the details the narrator is interacting with, or that the narrator thinks about or notices, and don't worry about trying to explain everything.

Remember one thing: trust your readers. It is easy to want to explain everything because 1) you've put time and effort into creating this world and it is always nice to get to show your work, and 2) you want to make sure the readers know what's going on. But readers are sharp; they'll remember details and as long as you are judicious in choosing which details to put in and how to frame them. The readers will (usually) be able to put things together and understand their relevance.

[J Forias]

You might get more help in The Sandbox or SYW, but I'll give it a shot.
Yeah, you're right. I just didn't know if my general questions would make any sense without context.

Thanks for the crit. I didn't say, but there's a lot smoke around, so there is a sense that her face gains a clearer focus - I think. He twists because of the shout of warning that Vanya gives him, which is another problem. I can understand your confusion though as I've seperated cause (her warning) and effect (him twisting away) with the character establishment.

I might send this to the sandbox and batter it around there.

You have your character move through the world organically.

*nods* That makes sense.

Like what?

Well, who characters are is my main thought. I suppose you can get away with, 'My brother Todd jumped onto the scene', but are longer lines like, 'In walked Fred, a little know colleague who I had worked with five years before' coherent in first person?

Because first person POV is supposed to be what the person is thinking at the time, right? And we don't think about how we know a person when we see them, we think 'there's Fred'. Or at least, I think we do... :D

I'm sorry. I struggle to get my head around POV.

[Cyia]

"book thoughts" are linear. "Real" thoughts aren't.

Real thoughts would be something like:

OMG,.... fire.. smoke... Gah, Vanya's bleeding - she was so pretty at her wedding... bet I'll never live long enough to get married. Why am I think about marriage when I'm gonna - oh! shouting, gotta duck. Blood, is it mine? No, good. Kill the bad guys.. wait, where's Bob? Oh, there he is. I hate him, but I don't really want him to die, of course if it was him or me...

Book thoughts are fairly coherent to the scene at hand, like your description of Vanya.

[HJW]

Well, who characters are is my main thought. I suppose you can get away with, 'My brother Todd jumped onto the scene', but are longer lines like, 'In walked Fred, a little know colleague who I had worked with five years before' coherent in first person?

Because first person POV is supposed to be what the person is thinking at the time, right? And we don't think about how we know a person when we see them, we think 'there's Fred'. Or at least, I think we do... :D

I'm sorry. I struggle to get my head around POV.


Using the Fred example, I don't think you should rely on a character's thoughts to relay information. SHOW us Fred is 'little known' to the POV character by their reactions to each other. The way they greet each other could tell us whether they're best mates or former colleagues.

If it's essential to the plot that we know they worked together five years ago, use a snippet of dialogue to tell us that.

[J Forias]

Interesting questions. For my part, I actually enjoyed that paragraph and don't think it was too much of a flow break. Though, IMHO, if you replace "Vanya, second daughter of Laela" with "Vanya daughter of Laela" it would flow even more smoothly.
Good point. Thanks!

I think the trick is to bring in only the briefest and important details, and to make them relevant to the situation at hand. I think it is a very telling image that in the moment he sees Vanya bleeding, he remembers that only a short while ago she was a bride in a beautiful ceremony. Those images have a strong and telling contrast. But this is not the place to mention where she loves eating humberries, unless they're fighting in, and trampling, her beloved humberry fields.

The hard truth is that most of the details you probably want to put in should stay out, especially if you start in the middle of an action sequence. Try picking out two or three of your narrator's companions in this battle, and figure out maybe one detail each about them that might pop into the narrator's head during a rushed battle, and that would be relevant to the emotional impact you're going for. For example, the jovial smith who is now forced to put all his well-made weapons to use, or the gawky boy forced to fight out of necessity though he hasn't yet reached manhood.
*nods* Yes, I see exactly what you mean. That's extremely helpful - things that would be flashing through his mind during the fight - which helps to give morsels of important flesh to the characters around him while having the added bonus of giving an emotional aspect to the narrator himself.

And if the full scope of what they're fighting for isn't apparent immediately, don't worry. Just make sure it comes up as soon as the fighting is over.

In a general sense, worldbuilding while in first-person perspective in a fantasy novel should work the same as setting a scene in a novel set in contemporary reality. Only bring up the details the narrator is interacting with, or that the narrator thinks about or notices, and don't worry about trying to explain everything.
That's probably the way I'm most comfortable writing it and as you say later, I should trust my readers to have patience in the meanwhile. Thank you for the excellent advice.

So would you say it's fair to say that a first persons narration should be entirely made up of what the narrator is thinking in the moment? One of my readers didn't like the line where I said, 'I recognised the voice as belonging to Karelle, our village Elder', because the narrator wouldn't put it that way (already knowing she's the Elder), which I think is a good example of how tricky the whole thing can be.

[Albannach]

Actually writing in first is very little different than writing in third close. BUT slips in PoV stick out like a boil. So if your character wouldn't think it then you simply can't put it in.

And I'm the kind of writer that would be more likely to write the scene the way Cyia did.

Book thoughts do NOT have to be linear and in stress moments like battle you gain tension by NOT making them linear. My opinion.

I'd break up those long sentences anyway for a battle. Too long. Too flowing. I don't feel any tension at all.

I wrenched the knife free. A woman bellowed my name – Vanya, daughter of Laela. Married last spring in a bright blaze of ceremony. A gash dripped blood into her eye. She pointed behind me. I gave a desperate lunge, and a sword sliced by my ear.

You don't stop to think poetic thoughts in the middle of a battle or think about whether the cut is over her right or left eye. Or I don't think you do. ;)

Sentence fragments and short sentences are your friends.

[sohalt]

OMG,.... fire.. smoke... Gah, Vanya's bleeding - she was so pretty at her wedding... bet I'll never live long enough to get married. Why am I think about marriage when I'm gonna - oh! shouting, gotta duck. Blood, is it mine? No, good. Kill the bad guys.. wait, where's Bob? Oh, there he is. I hate him, but I don't really want him to die, of course if it was him or me...

You could do it like that too, then it would be stream of consciousness. (The example given is actually wonderfully coherent, compared to passages I've read in Ullysses)

[theantisplice]

Book thoughts do NOT have to be linear and in stress moments like battle you gain tension by NOT making them linear. My opinion.

I'd break up those long sentences anyway for a battle. Too long. Too flowing. I don't feel any tension at all.

I wrenched the knife free. A woman bellowed my name – Vanya, daughter of Laela. Married last spring in a bright blaze of ceremony. A gash dripped blood into her eye. She pointed behind me. I gave a desperate lunge, and a sword sliced by my ear.

You don't stop to think poetic thoughts in the middle of a battle or think about whether the cut is over her right or left eye. Or I don't think you do. ;)

Sentence fragments and short sentences are your friends.

^This, pretty much. Albannach beat me to it. :P When I read this version, I see a battle. I feel the hurry, the panic, the tension. When I read the other one, it feels a little cumbersome. The choppier, faster style is more appropriate for this sort of scene, in my opinion.

[Lady Ice]

One thing that really stood out to me- the name. Vanya is a man's name- it's Russian, a diminutive of Ivan, such as in the play 'Uncle Vanya'. If you're going to create unusual names, at least check to make sure they aren't real names for the opposite gender.

Apart from that, I quite liked it. The definition seemed a bit too forced and it doesn't fit the pace of the action, which appears to be very fast. I'd either fit the backstory in somewhere else (perhaps after the fight- I'm not sure if Vanya dies or not- where the character has time to reflect). It seems to me that at this point, you want the reader to focus on the action.
Even though you've told us that Vanya is the second daughter of Laela and got married last spring in a flashy ceremony, it doesn't tell us anything about how the narrator feels about Vanya. From what I can tell, Vanya is an acquaintance known through Laela, and the narrator either went to the wedding or was told about it- not a particularly close relationship. Personally I'd remove the description of the ceremony because even though it sounds nice, it doesn't tell us anything about their relationship and even sounds slightly as if Vanya is a bit flashy or shallow.

[seun]

As I wrenched the knife free, a shout of warning rang out from the Tolan fighting in front of me. In that first moment, as she bellowed my name, her face gained a clearer focus and I recognised her – Vanya, second daughter of Laela, married last spring in a bright blaze of ceremony – now with a gruesome gash bleeding down over her right eye. In the second moment, a desperate twist to my left was all that saved me from death, as a sword sliced toward me in the dark.


I've got to be honest. If I read this specific bolded line, I'd stop reading from there. On the other hand, I quite like the rest of the paragraph.

[Michael_T]

I've got to be honest. If I read this specific bolded line, I'd stop reading from there. On the other hand, I quite like the rest of the paragraph.

I agree with that notion, as I also would have stopped at that line, but I will expound on it. First in that one sentence you introduce two new characters, Vanya and Leala. This is a sin according to my own personal rules, where I require at least 2 or 3 paragraphs before introducing a new character. Especially at the beginning of a book.

In the beginning I don't care who is related to who, what their emotional problems are, their history. I'm just a bystander who is going "Wow, look at this mess that some random person is in." The first couple pages are like a car crash that I see as I'm driving by. If it looks interesting (lots of cars, perhaps a fire or two. Overturned cars are a plus) I might look up the police report to find out who those people were and get more details. The same goes for a book. Catch the attention, compel the reader to want to find out more. Then drop in names and relations. If I just saw an accident report (a bunch of names, addresses, and vehicle descriptions) I would probably get bored and wouldn't finish reading it even if I knew I got to see the wreck after I finished reading the report.

[Etola]

That's probably the way I'm most comfortable writing it and as you say later, I should trust my readers to have patience in the meanwhile. Thank you for the excellent advice.

So would you say it's fair to say that a first persons narration should be entirely made up of what the narrator is thinking in the moment? One of my readers didn't like the line where I said, 'I recognised the voice as belonging to Karelle, our village Elder', because the narrator wouldn't put it that way (already knowing she's the Elder), which I think is a good example of how tricky the whole thing can be.

Yes, it is tricky. It's just a matter of how you frame it. I would leave out 'village elder' in that sentence unless the context of the book is that the MC is explicitly telling someone this story to an audience. A way you could do it is "I recognized the voice of Elder Karelle" or "I recognized the voice of Karelle, and set down my meal. I would finish eating after I'd heard what the Elder had to say." You know, work the relevant info into the character's thoughts in a more natural way.

[Lady Ice]

It doesn't matter that you've written 'our village Elder' if your character is retrospectively telling the story to the reader or to another character. This way, you can credibly build up atmosphere and give description without stretching credibility.

[J Forias]

Forgot to say thanks for all the help in this thread. I really appreciate it.