Would this be a form of plagiarism?

Marzipan · Dec 15, 2009

While working out the rest of my plot, I ran into an issue of concern. At the end of my novel, my two MC’s take The Grail (already acquired elsewhere) to Rosslyn chapel, which in my story is the only place where they can travel dimensions and rescue The Green Man (The Christian God).

The problem? Dan Brown has already linked The Grail (although in a much different way) to Rosslyn chapel. Would this be plagiarism in any form? I can say honestly that I have never read The Da Vinci Code or saw its movie interpretation.

The only way that I ran into this knowledge at all was that my fiance pointed it out to me. My main purpose for choosing Rosslyn chapel was because of the many ‘Green Men’ carved into the chapel.
My WIP is a YA Urban Fantasy.

Any advice is much appreciated.

colealpaugh · Dec 15, 2009

IDK, but most WWII novels turn out the same way. I wouldn't be as concerned about plagiarism as I would about an agent/editor seeing a similarity that turns them off. When you write "although in a much different way", you indicate it isn't plagiarism...

Just my 2 cents.

Marzipan · Dec 15, 2009

I was just wondering if anyone would see it as plagerism, but thanks for your two cents.

herbchick · Dec 15, 2009

I don't think that is any different than having vampires originate from Cain. Several authors have done that but taken it down completely paths.

blacbird · Dec 15, 2009

Ditto what Colealpaugh said. Your problem isn't plagiarism unless you actually lift portions of Dan Brown's book and give the impression they're your own writing. But the big risk is similarity and derivativeness.

caw

katiemac · Dec 15, 2009

As others said, it's not plagiarism. I also don't think it's that big of a similarity, considering Brown didn't invent the Grail nor the chapel and they both have legitimate places in the Christian religion.

Marzipan · Dec 15, 2009

Thank you one and all. I was just afraid that there may be some sort of issue, and now I see I was being silly.

katiemac · Dec 15, 2009

The Kidd said:
Thank you one and all. I was just afraid that there may be some sort of issue, and now I see I was being silly.

It's not silly. It sucks when you find out someone's already done something you wanted to do. But even though Da Vinci Code was wildly successful, your genre and readership is also significantly different. There are a lot of places in history that attract these kind of conspiracy theories or alternate histories. Brown certainly wasn't the first to use the chapel.

herbchick · Dec 15, 2009

I agree, it's definitely NOT silly.

Marzipan · Dec 15, 2009

Thanks, I feel so much better about this idea. It's unnerving to find simularities no matter how small in other people's works. I'm glad I made this thread.

Samantha's_Song · Dec 16, 2009

Brown lifted the good stuff out of The holy blood and the holy grail anyway, and if the writers of that couldn't do him for plagiarism, so you'll be perfectly safe too.

Stunted · Dec 16, 2009

Again, you don't have to worry about plagiarism, but you still don't want to set off any alarm bells in anyone's heads. I don't know anything about the mythology. Is there any reason why they couldn't take the grail somewhere else? Or to a fictional church? Just a thought.

lucidzfl · Dec 16, 2009

blacbird said:
Ditto what Colealpaugh said. Your problem isn't plagiarism unless you actually lift portions of Dan Brown's book and give the impression they're your own writing. But the big risk is similarity and derivativeness.

caw

I see no similarity between the realistic world in which Dan Brown operates and the dimensional hopping fantasy context to rescue a christian god which Kidd is writing.

I do not think its plagiarism.

Mara · Dec 16, 2009

It's at the end of your story, right? It's definitely not plagiarism, and I don't even think anyone would get the idea that it's similar at that point, with all the other stuff that goes on. It might look similar if it started with that scene, but that's about it. I wouldn't worry about it.

gothicangel · Dec 16, 2009

I would recommend some reading into the figure of 'The Green Man.' In Christian allegories he is more connected to the Devil than God; pagan. I recommend reading a translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

My wariness of using Rosslyn would be more along the lines of: after having to deal with the DVC nuts; I wouldn't expect them to cheer on your book. There's a reason they didn't allow filming inside the Chapel. You're not even allowed to take photo's, they are very protective of their Chapel.

James D. Macdonald · Dec 16, 2009

The Grail was linked with Rosslyn (via the Templars) long before Dan Brown was born.

IceCreamEmpress · Dec 16, 2009

As others have said, this idea wasn't at all original to Dan Brown. (Of course, he was sued for plagiarism by two of the authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail, but then again they lost.)

The more important question, for me, would be this: would the average person reading your book think you were lazily lifting ideas from Dan Brown? Only you and your beta-readers can judge that one.

gothicangel · Dec 16, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
The Grail was linked with Rosslyn (via the Templars) long before Dan Brown was born.

Which is strongly denied

Ardent Kat · Dec 16, 2009

IceCreamEmpress said:
The more important question, for me, would be this: would the average person reading your book think you were lazily lifting ideas from Dan Brown? Only you and your beta-readers can judge that one.

That was my thought, too. Brown wasn't the first to come up with the idea and it's certainly not plagiarism, but you could still risk losing points with readers. (Especially consider how high-profile Brown is and his reputation as a writer is mixed at best)

I've seen several reviews that accuse a work of being a "complete rip-off" because they had one single element resembling another work. Get a cranky reviewer accusing you of this and it could hurt. If you're aware that you might get slapped with the title of copycat, I'd look for something you're sure is original just to avoid that circus.

Judg · Dec 16, 2009

I am trying to wrap my head around the much bigger question of the Christian God needing rescuing. If he needs rescuing, he isn't the Christian God.

Regarding your original question, I agree with those who say it isn't plagiarism, but because the idea has become so strongly associated with Dan Brown, you might want to avoid it, because small, uninformed minds could see it that way. There are a lot of small, uninformed minds.

Marzipan · Dec 16, 2009

I am trying to wrap my head around the much bigger question of the Christian God needing rescuing. If he needs rescuing, he isn't the Christian God.

Hey it's fiction

It's not really so much as 'rescuing' but the need to reach him is great.

Thank you all for your insight, your time and wording means a lot to me. I know can always count on the good people of AW.

blacbird · Dec 16, 2009

Judg said:
There are a lot of small, uninformed minds.

I feel disrespected.

caw

IceCreamEmpress · Dec 16, 2009

Judg said:
I am trying to wrap my head around the much bigger question of the Christian God needing rescuing. If he needs rescuing, he isn't the Christian God.

I can think of ten or twelve books with this as a theme off the top of my head, several of them giant best-sellers. If I could figure out how to do spoiler-shielding code here, I'd name them.

Ardent Kat · Dec 16, 2009

IceCreamEmpress said:
I can think of ten or twelve books with this as a theme off the top of my head, several of them giant best-sellers.

That doesn't discount the second half of what Judg said:

If he needs rescuing, he isn't the Christian God.

Judg · Dec 17, 2009

blacbird said:
I feel disrespected.

caw

LOL! Wasn't thinking of you, dear.

Would this be a form of plagiarism?

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